What do I do now?

You have to do a few things to get through the next hours, days and months.

First, you have some time before the Plan B choice has to be made, so leave it alone for a bit and take care of yourself. Mourn the loss of the USNA '25 dream for a while. @Heatherg21 is right, it's a loss, so get some sleep, let the whole topic lie and live in the present. Celebrate your victories (USAFA! NROTC!) and enjoy the last month with your high school people and clear your head.

Then identify what is most important to you in the long run, Navy or aviation. School is just four (or five) years, but your obligation is going to be at least that long, perhaps twice that, and the lifestyles can vary widely between Navy and Air Force. If you'd put up with anything to fly then take Air Force for the higher chance to get a seat. If you really want Navy flight then take the NROTC choice for now and reapply to the academy for next year (or another NROTC school and transfer.) And if it turns out you love that new path then just don't accept USNA if they admit you.

A story I've told before around here comes from some famous D1 coach who advised making a chart with all your school options to track the pros and cons of the geography (too far away? winter?) and the academics (am I that smart? can I succeed?) and athletics (is there a spot on the team for me? are they good enough or too good?) And then add a column for your gut feel, if you can see yourself at that school, wearing that uniform, and feeling successful and happy. Tally up the scores, make sure you haven't missed anything, then throw away all of it except the last column and pick your favorite. His point was that they're all good choices so follow your heart, and I must point out that phrases like "I am fairly certain that I belong in the Navy not the Air Force" is clearly a Last Column data point.

Good luck, congrats on your successes to date, and enjoy the rest of this year.
 
Only thing I would add is be careful with the questions of "am I smart enough" in regards to the comment about school options. My son was accepted to a top 20 school and just yesterday some doubts were creeping in about "am I really good enough and smart enough" to do well at this school. I don't want to over-dramatize this because it was an offhand comment, and he is SUPER excited to go to this school. It was however a comment that really bothered me and I quickly countered this thought of his with a supportive one.

I essentially said that they would not have accepted you on the basis of charity or pity here. You are FULLY qualified and have everything you need to succeed. I think the question is more of an are you committed to the potential pressures here at a school like this. I think some young adults at this phase of their development really need to hear encouragement because they believe everyone "else" is better than them and getting into school X was just a mistake. This is just my 2 cents but I felt the need to respond. Take it or leave it. :band:
 
shiner said:
@Ifnot2025then2026 - have you considered accepting USAFA for the SA experience with the intent on cross-commissioning upon graduation? People do this every year. The college experience is 4 years while the pilot experience post graduation would be 10+ years. The two are not necessarily tied together.
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I would caution against this approach. While it does happen, perhaps even yearly, the number of cases is extremely low. It usually involves a fairly unique situation (ie. family legacy) or other compelling reason, and my understanding is that it has to be a one for one exchange, ie. zero net loss to either service.
 
MichaelT2022 said:
I'm not one to say exactly what you should do. I understand that you really want to attend USNA, and I understand your disappointment, and your effort.

Personally, if I were to be in the specific situation, that you currently are in. I would go for the USAFA Appointment. If I understood clearly, you did say that was your second choice. If I remember correctly, I don't think there is a penalty to attending and dropping out of USAFA in your first two years. (You may want to fact-check this). The main reason to me saying this is, that you could accept the offer as USAFA, and while there still be applying year after year for the NROTC Scholarship, I understand, it may not sound ideal, but especially if NROTC board sees your acceptance into USAFA, I feel that could help you quite a bit. Just imagine, what if you took that appointment at USAFA, and while still applying again to the NROTC Scholarship, you reflected that you may enjoy USAFA better? Then who knows, what could happen.

Initially right now, if I were you, TAKE THAT APPOINTMENT OFFER, at USAFA... You don't want to end up regretting not taking it, later in the future.

Sometimes its better to take risks that to not take any!

Let me know what you end up deciding!!!
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This is bad advice. You should accept an SA appointment becasue you really want to go there. You don't accept an SA with the intent on going somewhere else and that goes for attending for 2 years because there is no penalty. @MichaelT2022 should have stopped immediately after his first sentence.
 
SDpolo said:
You said VAST not ALL.
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OldRetSWO said:
Yes, that is correct. There is not an aviation guarantee and I want that to be clear.
That said, the odds/chances for a qualified mid who wants to fly being able to get sent to Navy Air are quite good.
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I think you would be hard pressed to find any Service Academy that will guaranty any particular Service Selection. I agree with Old RetSWO,but the key operative term being qualified. The DODMERB physical is a piece of cake compared to the first Flight Physical. Things have changed a bit with corrective eye surgery, but many a young Ensign got the NAMI Whammy , even after passing the DODMERB and Commissioning physical done at USNA.
 
Ifnot2025then2026 said:
This is not my first 3 am post on this forum.

After dedicating the last decade of my life in pursuit of attending USNA, I got my rejection letter today. To say I am disappointed would be a monumental understatement. I am also frustrated considering how much effort I have put in. I am also confused considering how well put together I thought my case was.

However, I am not without a plan B. I did get into USAFA back in the mid fall, and I did get both an NROTC and AFROTC scholarship to two top tier engineering schools (NROTC for a tier 2 major, though).

My immediate thought was that I should go to USAFA, since that is an obvious second choice for myself. But, now realizing that a decision I have been preparing for months to make (between USNA and usafa) has been taken out of my hands, I am now confronted with the reality that I want to spend my time flying for the navy, not the Air Force, and I do want to spend my college years at USNA, and not USAFA. I have come to the conclusion that it is just cultural/nuanced differences between the two, but I am fairly certain that I belong in the navy not the Air Force. No matter how hyped up I try to get about sweet Colorado hikes or flying in the soaring program, I am unable to forget that when I close my eyes to imagine myself taking off- it is off of a carrier- and when I see myself walking around campus- it is around T-Court.


Rationality tells me that it is not worth incurring the risk of get screwed over by USNA for c/o '26 and then have to stick to plan C (being ROTC) since USAFA would almost definitely not take me again next year if I turn them down.

This puts me in a really bad place. What do you all think? Go for ROTC and reapply to USNA or play it safe at USAFA?

I know I paint a dim portrait of USAFA and I don't mean to seem insensitive as the many feel the way about USAFA that I do USNA, but I also just got rejected so I am a little down in the dumps (and tired).
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IMHO the service choice matters more than the commissioning route. In the end you need to ask yourself what is more important, being a Naval Officer or a pilot. As a veteran of the Navy and USCGA some of the most miserable people I met where SWO’s who only wanted to fly. In the end will you be satisfied as a SWO on a tin can or a gator. If so Go Navy!
 
MichaelT2022 said:
I'm not one to say exactly what you should do. I understand that you really want to attend USNA, and I understand your disappointment, and your effort.

Personally, if I were to be in the specific situation, that you currently are in. I would go for the USAFA Appointment. If I understood clearly, you did say that was your second choice. If I remember correctly, I don't think there is a penalty to attending and dropping out of USAFA in your first two years. (You may want to fact-check this). The main reason to me saying this is, that you could accept the offer as USAFA, and while there still be applying year after year for the NROTC Scholarship, I understand, it may not sound ideal, but especially if NROTC board sees your acceptance into USAFA, I feel that could help you quite a bit. Just imagine, what if you took that appointment at USAFA, and while still applying again to the NROTC Scholarship, you reflected that you may enjoy USAFA better? Then who knows, what could happen.

Initially right now, if I were you, TAKE THAT APPOINTMENT OFFER, at USAFA... You don't want to end up regretting not taking it, later in the future.

Sometimes its better to take risks that to not take any!

Let me know what you end up deciding!!!
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I don’t know the answer to your issue. If your 2nd choice was not something you’d want, why spend the effort to apply initially? It would seem that at one time this was a very viable option and one with many advantages.

Or perhaps your 2nd choice was not USAFA but really NROTC? Either way it seems you have some great opportunities ahead once you commit yourself to a path. Good luck.
 
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Navy2025 said:
I don’t know the answer to your issue. If your 2nd choice was not something you’d want, why spend the effort to apply initially? It would seem that at one time this was a very viable option and one with many advantages.

Or perhaps your 2nd choice was not USAFA but really NROTC? Either way it seems you have some great opportunities ahead once you commit yourself to a path. Good luck.
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I was waiting for a response like this. And maybe a parent had hand in this situation.

Back in the day, my father would have knuckle-slapped me in the back of my head if I whined or complained about something like the OPs situation.

For Gods sake, teach your Kids to practice “Freedom FROM Choice” for once. Kids are taught today that they can have whatever they want ... and when they get what they ask for, it becomes a huge sob episode.
.
 
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Old Navy BGO said:
I would caution against this approach. While it does happen, perhaps even yearly, the number of cases is extremely low. It usually involves a fairly unique situation (ie. family legacy) or other compelling reason, and my understanding is that it has to be a one for one exchange, ie. zero net loss to either service.
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The definitive source would be the Cadet Personnel team - https://www.usafa.edu/cadet-life/cadet-support-services/counseling-and-advising/

You raise a valid question, so to answer it, I went to the source and spoke earlier today with the OIC of Navy Cross-commissioning in USAFA Cadet Personnel to learn the current state of affairs.

1) Cadets can raise their hand anytime during their cadet career to express interest in cross-commissioning.
2) Ideally, the OIC is aware of the intentions during the cadet's 2* year, but the reality is that nothing really happens until the Fall of the 1* year.
3) For the prior class of 2020, there were 6 who sought to cross commission into the Navy Of these 4 did. The two who did not move forward chose to self eliminate from the cross-commissioning program - 1 for failing to medically qualify for BUDS and 1 who received an AF pilot slot and chose to stick with that.
4) For the prior class, all students received the career field they requested.
5) For the current class of 2021, there are 13. They have not yet been told whether the SECNAV or SECDEF has signed off on their request.
6) The Navy requires that the applicant have a reason they want to cross-commission. Having applied to, but not been appointed to USNA is a valid reason per the OIC.
7) They do not necessarily track numbers on this, but there are about 6 per year who want to go Navy. In total, they estimate 1 in 10 is not allowed to cross commission. When pressed on this figure, the reasons were more because they did not qualify for the career field they were requesting.
8) The OIC is who racks and stacks the applicants. Should they have more applicants than transfer billets - he makes the call.

I dug further to understand the variables involved in the process.

1) The AF does not have to relinquish the student. However, historically they have.
2) The AF does not require a 1:1 exchange - everything is situational, but historically they prefer to keep an even exchange. The student does not have to seek out their own pairing partner to exchange with - that is handled outside of USAFA and upstream.
3) The AF has approved things like a 6 for 4 exchange in the past. Past performance does not equate to future performance.
4) The applicant will receive an AFSC and know this prior to the cross-commissioning program outcome and career field assignment.
5) The gaining branch determines the career field for the accession. Again, last year they all got what they requested and this included pilot.

The net takeaway is that there are a small number of students who cross-commission each year. Each Academy has a team in place to work with these students and guide them through the process. The process is not overly difficult, but there are variables here that make it less than 100% for either the ability to change and/or receive the desired career field. There is a path, and people take it every year.

From what @Ifnot2025then2026 has shared, flying is the priority but branch is a close second. I am happy to share the contact info if anyone wants to PM to ask additional questions from the authority.

@Ifnot2025then2026 - you are in a good position and many who received TWE today would gladly take your spot.

If you went NROTC and received a pilot slot - would you regret not having a Service Academy experience?
If you went NROTC and did not receive a pilot slot - would you regret not having gone USAFA where the percentage chance is almost 99% for getting a pilot slot?
If you went NROTC and did not receive a pilot slot - would there be any other career field you see yourself performing in the Navy?

We know the percentage chance of getting a pilot slot for those medically qualified is virtually 99% at USAFA. This is not so for ROTC. USNA would be a higher percentage than ROTC, but this option is off the table at the moment. Have you spoken with the NROTC detachment you are considering to understand how many pilot slots they have historically received compared to how many students had that as their top choice of career field? If they said everyone always gets pilot that asks for it out of here - that is good and would certainly sway my opinion on that route.

I agree with @CGQMforlife that the commissioning source is less important than the branch and career field. My advice would be to aim for the career outcome of pilot and roll the dice on cross-commissioning. If I were told there was only a 50% chance of flying out of that ROTC unit, and my goal was flying, it would make my decision. I don't know what their track record is, but like I did today, I would encourage you to pick up the phone and ask the question to be at peace in your decision.

Best of Luck!
 
Seems like every time I come back to this forum it's late at night.

Just an update:

I will be heading to Colorado Springs to at least get a feel for USAFA (albeit it doesn't really seem like there's much I can do out there). I'm also going to call my admissions officer from USNA to see what they think of my predicament.

Thank you all for the thorough replies. Especially @shiner, that was very informative.

Another question for those with experience:
I feel that one of the largest benefits to an SA is the networking. Do you think cross commissioning would essentially negate that benefit entirely?
 
Ifnot2025then2026 said:
Seems like every time I come back to this forum it's late at night.

Just an update:

I will be heading to Colorado Springs to at least get a feel for USAFA (albeit it doesn't really seem like there's much I can do out there). I'm also going to call my admissions officer from USNA to see what they think of my predicament.

Thank you all for the thorough replies. Especially @shiner, that was very informative.

Another question for those with experience:
I feel that one of the largest benefits to an SA is the networking. Do you think cross commissioning would essentially negate that benefit entirely?
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With regard to your last question, whatever SA you attend, you will create lifelong friends and an extensive network. You will always be a member of that class, regardless of what Service you are in. You will quickly build a new professional network in any Service. Post-Service, SA grads and vets in general share a special camaraderie, though not quite the same as what you would forge over 4 years at an SA. You will build professional and personal relationships with people from all commissioning sources.

Now, cross-commissioning. Surely you have read some of the many SAF threads on this, plus the excellent posts above. You cannot plan on that being a sure thing. The Air Force would have to be willing to lose you because they have enough warm bodies that commissioning year, and the Navy would have to need a warm body that year and be willing to take someone who has not had USNA/NROTC/OCS training. It’s a very narrow path with no guarantees and no way to predict what the needs of the Navy and the needs of the Air Force are several years down the road. Sure, it happens, but it’s not by the truckload. If you attend USAFA, you should be absolutely sure there are officer specialties you are willing to serve in, and be ready to fully embrace the Air Force with no looking back at “the one who got away,” should cross-commissioning not be possible.
 
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Above someone asked for details of why two folks I knew who went to USMA didn't like it. Not entirely sure but I suspect it has to do with the fact that the Army is primarily a ground-based service and the USN is not. Also, USMA at the time (this was 15 year ago) and maybe still is a bit more regimented than USNA and I'm not sure they liked that aspect. As to why they applied to USMA when they didn't want to be there . . . I suspect but don't know that they thought they would be happy at USMA or would learn to like it.

I've no doubt there are examples of people who ended up being happy at a SA that wasn't their first choice. If you say, "Yeah, USNA was my first choice but it was a really close call and I'm still so thrilled to be going to USAFA" . . . you'll probably be fine. If, alternatively, you say, "Well, USAFA is better than nothing and I probably will learn to love it" . . . beware.

Finally, do NOT count on cross-commissioning. Be 100% prepared to be an AF officer (which is a great, BTW).
 
Ifnot2025then2026 said:
This is not my first 3 am post on this forum.

After dedicating the last decade of my life in pursuit of attending USNA, I got my rejection letter today. To say I am disappointed would be a monumental understatement. I am also frustrated considering how much effort I have put in. I am also confused considering how well put together I thought my case was.

However, I am not without a plan B. I did get into USAFA back in the mid fall, and I did get both an NROTC and AFROTC scholarship to two top tier engineering schools (NROTC for a tier 2 major, though).

My immediate thought was that I should go to USAFA, since that is an obvious second choice for myself. But, now realizing that a decision I have been preparing for months to make (between USNA and usafa) has been taken out of my hands, I am now confronted with the reality that I want to spend my time flying for the navy, not the Air Force, and I do want to spend my college years at USNA, and not USAFA. I have come to the conclusion that it is just cultural/nuanced differences between the two, but I am fairly certain that I belong in the navy not the Air Force. No matter how hyped up I try to get about sweet Colorado hikes or flying in the soaring program, I am unable to forget that when I close my eyes to imagine myself taking off- it is off of a carrier- and when I see myself walking around campus- it is around T-Court.


Rationality tells me that it is not worth incurring the risk of get screwed over by USNA for c/o '26 and then have to stick to plan C (being ROTC) since USAFA would almost definitely not take me again next year if I turn them down.

This puts me in a really bad place. What do you all think? Go for ROTC and reapply to USNA or play it safe at USAFA?

I know I paint a dim portrait of USAFA and I don't mean to seem insensitive as the many feel the way about USAFA that I do USNA, but I also just got rejected so I am a little down in the dumps (and tired).
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In very similar situation as you 😂
 
Wonderful comments, perspectives, and encouragement!

Some additional thoughts:
*Was USAFA REALLY your 2nd choice, or your BACKUP service academy choice? The backup you thought you wouldn't ultimately need to consider?
*As you think about USAFA, are you mostly looking at the downside/exit/cross commissioning type of strategies, or are opening up and embracing the possibilities that USAFA offers, outside of pilot, because there is always a possibility you won't be able to get pilot.
*You say you want to experience the service academy lifestyle - not a wrong mindset, but you want to be certain it's the lifestyle you want, and not the perceived status of going to any SA. If you sit here today and can't visualize yourself all-in when you get to the footprints and wait your turn for special attention, and your mind wanders to wishing you were frantically waving to your parents that you are the little canon and not by Tecumsah onA-Day (?), then that is something of a wakeup call how much USAFA was a real choice at all.
*NROTC sounds great. I'm completely biased towards USAFA, so tried to play devil's advocate here.
 
It's been said many times, if you aren't going to the SA where you can see yourself buying in to the whole process--- you will be miserable. Heck, you may be miserable to some degree for four years. It is hard, challenging, frustrating, exhausting. it is also an experience that will change and forge you.
You have to know that you can commit to the mindset and the end game. Commissioning into a service branch where you can see yourself spending no less than five years.

I for one do not think this is a scenario where you can 'dip your toe' in. This is one where you need to be as sure as you can possibly be in your selection.
You have amazing options.
 
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