What is like after the academy like in the Air Force vs. Navy?

[Gwen1126]

I’m honored to have been accepted to both USAFA class of 2024 and USNA class of 2024. I want to go ahead and commit in a timely manner so I can ‘free up a spot’ for another deserving student. Here’s the thing: I know that you should choose an academy based not upon which college you like more, but which branch of service. And here’s where I’m conflicted. I love the Naval Academy, it’s been my dream school forever, but almost every veteran I’ve talked to has told me to go Air Force.
In all ways, Air Force the practical choice. It treats women better, it has better benefits, nicer facilities, and it provides a more stable career if I stay 10 or 15 years and decide I want a family. It allows me to stay on land instead of taking 18-24 month tours.
But on the other hand, I keep telling myself that it’s only a five year commitment after graduation. Five years as a surface warfare officer could give me perspective on life and allow me to travel while I’m young. Graduates from the naval academy proudly tell me that USNA provides the kind of training which prepares you for a successful career outside of the service because of who it shapes you to be- the work ethic, the determination, the drive.

So I guess my question is: for those of you who have graduated the academy, or whose children have, what was their career like after commissioning on a larger scale? How much does a surface warfare officer get to travel? Do they actually get to visit the places they dock at? How frequent is that? How often do Air Force Officers get to travel?

For context: I have no idea if I would be suited to be a pilot, or cyber warfare officer, or any of the other career options so I’m writing this on the assumption I would either be in a support position in the Air Force or a Surface Warfare Officer.

 

[raimius]

Both are great opportunities. If you have no interest in flying, that reduces some of USAFA's benefits (with about half the class going to rated jobs).
I'm not sure what you mean by "not suited" to be a pilot or cyber officer. Can you clarify that?

 

[Gwen1126]

Both are great opportunities. If you have no interest in flying, that reduces some of USAFA's benefits (with about half the class going to rated jobs).
I'm not sure what you mean by "not suited" to be a pilot or cyber officer. Can you clarify that?

Thanks for the response! I guess I’m not sure if I want to fly and I’m not really interested in cyber operations. I heard in the Air Force jobs that aren’t pilots are “second class”. I guess I’m just mostly trying to figure out how life after the academies has turned out for people.

 

[Stealth_81]

I know a 2012 USAFA grad who became a Personnel Officer (AFSC 38F). She has deployed three times since graduation and has been stationed in Alaska, South Carolina, and Washington state. She goes TDY all over the world. She is very good at what she does and is on a solid track to become a commander some day. I would not consider her “second class”. Any career field can excel if you love your job and work hard.

Stealth_81

 

[shiner]

As a non-pilot, I can not say that I ever felt like a second-class officer. Each unit becomes close with one another, that is the nature of the military because you could be entrusting your life to the guy or girl on either side of you. Everyone has a role to play and we succeed when everyone does their job. Pilots can fly with maintainers. Maintainers cant get parts without acquisitions - and so forth.

 

[cb7893]

Thanks for the response! I guess I’m not sure if I want to fly and I’m not really interested in cyber operations. I heard in the Air Force jobs that aren’t pilots are “second class”. I guess I’m just mostly trying to figure out how life after the academies has turned out for people.

You sound a little bit like the dog that caught the car. “Now that I have it firmly in my grasp, what do I do with it?”

Do a deep search of this forum starting with a thread entitled Where are they now?

Congratulations and best of luck!

 

[MidCakePa]

I want to go ahead and commit in a timely manner so I can ‘free up a spot’

By committing ahead of May 1, you are not freeing up a spot for anyone else. The SAs admit candidates based on a well-calibrated yield expectation. Take your time and get it right.

It treats women better,

How so? Do you have examples? Have you spoken directly to USNA female grads?

It allows me to stay on land instead of taking 18-24 month tours.

By “tours,” do you mean deployments? Deployments typically last no longer than six months.

I’m writing this on the assumption I would either be in a support position in the Air Force or a Surface Warfare Officer.

After USNA, you could also go subs or Marines.

 

[usna1985]

It treats women better, it has better benefits, nicer facilities, and it provides a more stable career if I stay 10 or 15 years and decide I want a family. It allows me to stay on land instead of taking 18-24 month tours.

I don't know where you get your info re how the services treat women. I was in the USN a long time ago -- when there were a LOT fewer women in the Navy and no women in leadership positions other than nursing. I never felt mistreated -- quite the contrary. I felt I aways had equal opportunities to my male counterparts, in line with the restrictions that existed at that time for women in combat.

Nicer facilities -- have to agree. But how much time will you be spending at the base gym or the commissary or even the BOQ? Not much. So I would not put ANY stock in that.

I can only speak for the USN. Most USN jobs include deployments. I will say that most people in the USN enjoy their time on "sea duty" more than on shore duty. Obviously, they don't enjoy being away from their families, but they do enjoy the work, the camaraderie, etc.

How much you travel depends on the ship/squadron you're in. A friend was on an aircraft carrier that repositioned from Japan to Norfolk. They went all through WestPac, Australia, South America . . . incredible. Others will spend most of their deployment in the Persian Gulf. Bottom line: "Join the Navy, See the World" is generally a true statement.

As for raising a family . . . if you intend to work while raising a family, bear in mind that many white-collar jobs (and some other jobs) require a lot of travel, require night and weekend work, etc. No, it's not deployment, but it's also not 9-5, M-F. Also, today, in my experience, husbands take a MUCH larger share of parenting. In my work environment, there are several women who are the main "breadwinners" -- travel and work a lot -- and their husbands (who do work), do most of the parenting. I also ran into a female LCDR recently (working on her masters' while on shore duty) who told me her husband is a stay-at-home dad.

Finally, you don't know what life will bring you. Some women for various reasons never have kids. Some never marry.

I would start with what you really want to do for the next 9 years (4 at USNA and 5+ thereafter). After that, I suspect things will work themselves out.

One other thing -- my dad was a USAF officer. In my experience, there were the pilots and everyone else. I defer to someone more current to say whether that's still true.

 

[Gwen1126]

I know a 2012 USAFA grad who became a Personnel Officer (AFSC 38F). She has deployed three times since graduation and has been stationed in Alaska, South Carolina, and Washington state. She goes TDY all over the world. She is very good at what she does and is on a solid track to become a commander some day. I would not consider her “second class”. Any career field can excel if you love your job and work hard.

Stealth_81

Thank you so much for your response! It’s very difficult for me to gather accurate information - my family doesn’t have any military connections, so I’ve spent countless hours on the internet trying to get a picture of what life in the respective branches might look like.

As a non-pilot, I can not say that I ever felt like a second-class officer. Each unit becomes close with one another, that is the nature of the military because you could be entrusting your life to the guy or girl on either side of you. Everyone has a role to play and we succeed when everyone does their job. Pilots can fly with maintainers. Maintainers cant get parts without acquisitions - and so forth.

Thank you so much for your response! Again, I think I just might’ve stumbled across some bitter people who had a bad experience in the Air Force. Thank you for sharing your positive experience in a non-pilot role.

You sound a little bit like the dog that caught the car. “Now that I have it firmly in my grasp, what do I do with it?”

Do a deep search of this forum starting with a thread entitled Where are they now?

Congratulations and best of luck!

Thank you so much! I did spend almost an hour on that thread, but I got a little lost in the later pages when it became more conversational than Q & A. But it did help a lot!

 

[Gwen1126]

How so? Do you have examples? Have you spoken directly to USNA female grads?

My family doesn’t have any military connection, and I don’t know very many people in the military, so most of my information is coming from combing forums on the internet like this and trying to get an snapshot of life in both branches. That part comes only from the general sentiments I’ve read online- that the Air Force is kinder to women, more progressive, etc. It’s actually accuracy I don’t know, so I didn’t mean to offend. I’ve had a very hard time finding information from a female perspective in the Navy other than those who came to the internet with very negative experiences.

By “tours,” do you mean deployments? Deployments typically last no longer than six months.

This part confused me some- I read online that the Navy was changing SWO training to a 48 month long tour, but I didn’t know exactly what that meant. I know that they wouldn’t spend 48 months straight at sea, but I also didn’t really know the proportion between time at sea and time at the land base. How much time is spent at sea (let’s say six months) and then how much on land?
[/QUOTE]

I don't know where you get your info re how the services treat women. I was in the USN a long time ago -- when there were a LOT fewer women in the Navy and no women in leadership positions other than nursing. I never felt mistreated -- quite the contrary. I felt I aways had equal opportunities to my male counterparts, in line with the restrictions that existed at that time for women in combat.

Nicer facilities -- have to agree. But how much time will you be spending at the base gym or the commissary or even the BOQ? Not much. So I would not put ANY stock in that.

I can only speak for the USN. Most USN jobs include deployments. I will say that most people in the USN enjoy their time on "sea duty" more than on shore duty. Obviously, they don't enjoy being away from their families, but they do enjoy the work, the camaraderie, etc.

How much you travel depends on the ship/squadron you're in. A friend was on an aircraft carrier that repositioned from Japan to Norfolk. They went all through WestPac, Australia, South America . . . incredible. Others will spend most of their deployment in the Persian Gulf. Bottom line: "Join the Navy, See the World" is generally a true statement.

As for raising a family . . . if you intend to work while raising a family, bear in mind that many white-collar jobs (and some other jobs) require a lot of travel, require night and weekend work, etc. No, it's not deployment, but it's also not 9-5, M-F. Also, today, in my experience, husbands take a MUCH larger share of parenting. In my work environment, there are several women who are the main "breadwinners" -- travel and work a lot -- and their husbands (who do work), do most of the parenting. I also ran into a female LCDR recently (working on her masters' while on shore duty) who told me her husband is a stay-at-home dad.

Finally, you don't know what life will bring you. Some women for various reasons never have kids. Some never marry.

I would start with what you really want to do for the next 9 years (4 at USNA and 5+ thereafter). After that, I suspect things will work themselves out.

One other thing -- my dad was a USAF officer. In my experience, there were the pilots and everyone else. I defer to someone more current to say whether that's still true.

Thank you very much for sharing your perspective! Again, the very limited information I was able to find from women in the navy online tended to be negative. It’s very relieving to hear you had such a positive experience. In addition, very many SWO forums seemed to have an extremely negative view of the job- that it was exhausting, they never got sleep, and they wish they had chosen a different career. Perhaps I simply was happening upon the wrong forums. I’m really glad to hear most people enjoy their time at sea. Your perspective was refreshing to hear.

 

[usna1985]

Any military job can be exhausting. Ask a submariner about nuke power school. When I was deployed (land-based), I worked 18+ hours per day, 6 days per week and 12 hours on Sunday. For 6 months. Of course, there wasn't a lot else to do on deployment other than work and workout (I was in GREAT shape).

I know several female SWOs. They loved/love it. Does everyone? Of course not. It's hard work and some people hate it.

I would first focus on the school you want to attend. Then consider your options upon graduation. For women at USNA, you are eligible for -- and must choose from -- the same jobs men can do. You go SWO, nuke sub or nuke surface, pilot, NFO, USMC (ground or air), SEAL, EOD, or Cyber. (Think I've hit them all). Hardest to get for a female is subs. No woman has yet gone SEAL but the path/option is there. For the most part (there are some exceptions), if you want to go into a particular service, have reasonable aptitude and aren't in the bottom of your class, you will get what you want.

If none of those interest you, see what career paths in the USAF are of interest and how likely you are to get them (I know nothing about USAF service selection so you need to find a USAF person to help).

 

[OldRetSWO]

In all ways, Air Force the practical choice. It treats women better, it has better benefits

When most people talk about benefits, they are talking about medical, pension, etc and they are the same across the entire military.

but almost every veteran I’ve talked to has told me to go Air Force.

"Almost every veteran" is a group that is likely to be 95% or more ex-enlisted. Life (and jobs) for officers is totally different.
For example, you mention being a surface warfare officer; just about every Division on the ship will have a variety of experienced
enlisted folks who specialize in one type of equipment or facet of the ship but in almost every case, they have very little understanding
of the specifics of what YOU do when you are on the bridge or other watches.

 

[LATS]

I would suggest trying to find a career or career field that interest you. Whether it be a certain career in the military or in the civilian world. Both academies are going to give you an incredible experience and set you up for much success later in life so I wouldn’t worry about one being better in that sense. You should ask yourself what your interests are and make a choice from there. If you choose the Naval Academy you are going to have several classes about seamanship and your curriculum is going to focus around all that fun water stuff. Or, would you rather focus on aviation at the AirForce academy? I’d pull up both academy website and look at all of the jobs they offer and also research civilian jobs that might interest you later. Then make your choice from that. Best of luck!

 

[EchoDelta1711]

Hey, sorry to crash this thread with more questions (I'm currently deciding between USNA and USMA). Ideally, I would like to commission as a Navy EOD officer, but I realize that selection is extremely competitive, so I would like to learn more about life in the other communities, especially in the Marine Corps and submarines. Also, how difficult would it be to laterally transfer to Navy EOD if not selected out of the academy?

 

[Capt MJ]

Hey, sorry to crash this thread with more questions (I'm currently deciding between USNA and USMA). Ideally, I would like to commission as a Navy EOD officer, but I realize that selection is extremely competitive, so I would like to learn more about life in the other communities, especially in the Marine Corps and submarines. Also, how difficult would it be to laterally transfer to Navy EOD if not selected out of the academy?

You will get plenty of briefs on the various officer warfare specialties. The Company Officers are drawn from all communities, as are the other officers on the Yard, so there will be learning opportunities there. Summer training goals include hands-on exposure to the various communities to help you make your decision. There will be upperclass you will watch and learn from as they go through this before you.

Navy EOD is indeed a challenge. You should plan to be PT stud or studette; the screener is very demanding.

If you don’t go EOD out of USNA, then you do something like Surface Warfare and get your professional warfare designation. There’s a way to apply for lateral transfer, at some point in the first few years of your career. Once or twice a year, competitive lateral transfer and re-designation boards meet. If you are a top performer in your current warfare specialty AND you get a resounding endorsement from your CO AND the SWO community can afford to lose you out of the community’s year group for manpower purposes AND the EOD community needs manpower plus-up in your year group AND the needs of the Navy are satisfied, it can happen. It has to happen fairly early in your career but after SWO qual, because of the EOD schools pipeline length. Any community with a lengthy training pipeline, such as submarines or aviation, it can be extremely hard to try to transfer to another community that also requires a lengthy school pipeline, and by the time you get to the Fleet as a newly minted EOD, you are several years behind your peers in the same rank and year group in terms of professional skills.

 

[EchoDelta1711]

You will get plenty of briefs on the various officer warfare specialties. The Company Officers are drawn from all communities, as are the other officers on the Yard, so there will be learning opportunities there. Summer training goals include hands-on exposure to the various communities to help you make your decision. There will be upperclass you will watch and learn from as they go through this before you.

Navy EOD is indeed a challenge. You should plan to be PT stud or studette; the screener is very demanding.

If you don’t go EOD out of USNA, then you do something like Surface Warfare and get your professional warfare designation. There’s a way to apply for lateral transfer, at some point in the first few years of your career. Once or twice a year, competitive lateral transfer and re-designation boards meet. If you are a top performer in your current warfare specialty AND you get a resounding endorsement from your CO AND the SWO community can afford to lose you out of the community’s year group for manpower purposes AND the EOD community needs manpower plus-up in your year group AND the needs of the Navy are satisfied, it can happen. It has to happen fairly early in your career but after SWO qual, because of the EOD schools pipeline length. Any community with a lengthy training pipeline, such as submarines or aviation, it can be extremely hard to try to transfer to another community that also requires a lengthy school pipeline, and by the time you get to the Fleet as a newly minted EOD, you are several years behind your peers in the same rank and year group in terms of professional skills.

Thanks for the insight! Overall, is it more difficult to be selected for EOD from USNA or NROTC?

 

[Tex232]

In all ways, Air Force the practical choice. It treats women better, it has better benefits, nicer facilities, and it provides a more stable career if I stay 10 or 15 years and decide I want a family. It allows me to stay on land instead of taking 18-24 month tours.

As someone whose been stationed at/visited many different services installations - it's all in perspective. Not every AFB you're going to be at is super nice. Just for an example, the installation I'm currently stationed at is not even considered an Air Force Base, its a joint use base and there are very few support facilities (and we're not even labeled remote!). I've visited a couple Marine posts that I would consider more attractive than several air bases I can name. Also, apart from having the easiest physical standards of any branch and with very few physically demanding jobs, I can't really think of any ways the AF treats women "better".

Five years as a surface warfare officer could give me perspective on life and allow me to travel while I’m young.

In either service, travel opportunities will depend on your job, but as a general rule I would count on being able to travel more (and to a larger variety of places) in the Navy than AF. In all likelihood, you're probably going to end up on a ship if you go Navy, and ships - by their very nature - go places. That's not to say you wouldn't travel in the AF if you landed the right job, but you're a little more tethered to where you go, and the majority of deployments occur in the middle east.

As others said, I would go with whichever service offers the career path(s) that interests you the most. Navy and Air Force standards of living are pretty close to one another, so I wouldn't let that be too much of a factor in your decision.

 

[Humey]

In terms of bases, I think the Navy wins. My son in the AF has been in Enid OK, Shevreport IA and may go to Minot ND. Not exactly hotspots of the world although Shrevport isnt too bad. At the very least, the Navy has San Diego and Hawaii. I know you dont know what you want to do, but it really does start with what do you want to do in the service. Some jobs cross all of the branches while others are specific to a branch or a couple of branches. Personally, i think the the Navy has more different types of jobs than the AF. The core job of the Air Force is flying and those who dont fly, support the flying. Of course that is a generalization but its mostly true. In the Navy, you can fly, be on a ship, be on a submarine, do Cyber and so on. Each seem like its own core of work instead of being a support for one thing like flying. Of course the Navy has support also for all these areas. AGain, figure out what you want to do. On the other hand, you probably cant go wrong with either one

 

[OldRetSWO]

Thanks for the insight! Overall, is it more difficult to be selected for EOD from USNA or NROTC?

Doubtful that there is a significant difference