What sank my application?

I find this SO interesting because what the NROTC recruiter told us after DS was not awarded a scholarship was that he hadn't selected colleges that would provide for the diversity the Navy is trying to achieve. DS applied to colleges in the West, including the U of I which is only a couple of hours away and in-state. The recruiter told me that my white male DS would have had better chances of getting a scholarship if he had applied to colleges where he would be considered a minority.

Kat

Sent you a PM
 
I find this SO interesting because what the NROTC recruiter told us after DS was not awarded a scholarship was that he hadn't selected colleges that would provide for the diversity the Navy is trying to achieve. DS applied to colleges in the West, including the U of I which is only a couple of hours away and in-state. The recruiter told me that my white male DS would have had better chances of getting a scholarship if he had applied to colleges where he would be considered a minority.

Kat

ROTC doesn't take in race as a factor, that's the academies. Something else sank his application, probably college choice or maybe academics.
 
ROTC doesn't take in race as a factor, that's the academies. Something else sank his application, probably college choice or maybe academics.

Don't be too quick to make that statement.

Race may not have anything to do with the application but it has been an issue that has come up at several schools, at least in AROTC. There is now a beginning push to have battalions more diversified, your school choice could come into play in this regard when scholarships are given.

The AFROTC does not have this issue because school choice has nothing to do with the scholarships.
 
Don't be too quick to make that statement.

Race may not have anything to do with the application but it has been an issue that has come up at several schools, at least in AROTC. There is now a beginning push to have battalions more diversified, your school choice could come into play in this regard when scholarships are given.
I've heard that too. ... probably how I (Asian) got my scholarship.
 
Like everyone else who has posted here I have no insider knowledge about how the selections are made, but I think we can infer some possible explanations from the available evidence.

First, given your resume, it appears to be the case that extremely strong grades, test scores, and extracurriculars are not enough to guarantee an NROTC scholarship. It is difficult to imagine that there are many applicants who have a superior “paper” profile to yours.

Second, it seems plausible to me that school preference is a factor for budget reasons. If it is in fact the case that the Navy gives a strong preference to candidates who are eligible for in-state tuition, you would be at a disadvantage on three of your picks (Missouri, Purdue, and UVA). Even though you are technically eligible for in-state at Missouri, the system may not be fine-tuned enough to pick that up.

Third, I think the factor that is most underappreciated is the teacher/coach/counselor recommendation. Many (perhaps most) candidates will have similar profiles: high GPAs, great test scores, eagle scout, varsity athlete, etc. I would also guess that most of the essays and interviews are pretty much the same – there is only so much that you can say about yourself as a high school senior that makes you special. The board is likely to be impressed by a strong personal recommendation by a teacher who can personally and convincingly vouch for a candidate’s leadership potential – which is the NROTC’s number one criteria.

Fourth, I don’t think it is necessarily the case that the board is trying to select the “best” candidates, at least not in the same way that a college admissions board does. I presume that the Navy considers the process to be successful if they are able to fill all of their slots with candidates who have the potential to stay with the program and become competent junior officers. On top of that, the board needs to balance enrollments between the units, meet goals for technical majors, stay within a budget, and estimate the number of candidates who will actually accept and use a scholarship that is awarded to them. That is not an easy task, and it would not surprise me if there are a fair number of extremely well-qualified candidates such as yourself who didn’t make the cut because the board didn’t have the time to juggle the matrix one last time.

Fifth, each ROTC option has its own criteria that play to certain strengths. For example, the Air Force gives a very strong preference to candidates who are willing to major in certain engineering fields, and your strong math and physics test scores may have been much more of a plus factor for an AFROTC board than for NROTC.

In any event, best of luck to you. I am sure you will be successful wherever you go and whatever you do.
 
Don't be too quick to make that statement.

Race may not have anything to do with the application but it has been an issue that has come up at several schools, at least in AROTC. There is now a beginning push to have battalions more diversified, your school choice could come into play in this regard when scholarships are given.

The AFROTC does not have this issue because school choice has nothing to do with the scholarships.

I was told this last year by my interviewer. In my 100+ size Det, which has a decent number of scholarship cadets, I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. There are 3 black students on scholarship, me and 2 of the only 3 black POC. Probably half the Asians we have are on scholarship, but there arent that many so I feel like its safe to say that 85-90% of the scholarship cadets are white. Out of the 70 or so GMC, maybe 30-40% are minorities, a pretty decent number. You'd think, if race was a factor, there'd be a greater percentage of minorities on scholarship.

And I thought that school choice did matter for AFROTC, yes its not tied to one school, but the cheaper your top schools are, the more likely you are to get a scholarship since...what, 70%(?) of AFROTC scholarships are of the type that only pay IS tuition. My interviewer told me it was also a that my #1 school was IS with pretty cheap IS tuition rates considering its a top 5 engineering school. My major and 30+ college credits were also big pluses, had a really good inerview score too. It may have been something large or minuscule that tipped the balance out of the OP's favor, it may have been that his IS choice had high tuition rates or that he scored a few points lower on his interview than the person that did get it. IDK, I just highly doubt it was his race. With all due respect, I feel like that is just a scape goat excuse and people are too quick to turn to it.

Hope I didn't come off as too abrasive, I do feel for the great candidates that were passed over this year and wish them the best of luck in the future, but I just get really annoyed when this comes up since all I feel like it does is cheapen my accomplishment and the accomplishments of others who worked just hard.
 
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, IDK, I just highly doubt it was his race. With all due respect, I feel like that is just a scape goat excuse and people are too quick to turn to it. Hope I didn't come off as too abrasive, I do feel for the great candidates that were passed over this year, but I just get really annoyed when this comes up since all I feel like it does is cheapen my accomplishment.

I'm not the OP, but I am the one who brought up the idea of diversity a few posts back. I want to be clear on this...that statement came from the NROTC recruiter. We were obviously disappointed and discouraged after a long wait and a TWE from USNA a few days before. The recruiter called US and when I asked some hard questions about what could be done to improve my son's chances of being awarded a scholarship, he said "His application is exceptional. He needs to apply to schools far from home that will be more diverse." This was not very reassuring!

But, the good news is that he joined the unit at Idaho as a college programmer and after two LONG years of being at the top of his class, was finally awarded a scholarship at the end of last year. It all worked out...but it hasn't been without a lot of frustration.

The ultimate frustration, of course, is being a college programmer and seeing some who are on scholarship completely take that opportunity for granted.

Kat
 
I'm not the OP, but I am the one who brought up the idea of diversity a few posts back. I want to be clear on this...that statement came from the NROTC recruiter. We were obviously disappointed and discouraged after a long wait and a TWE from USNA a few days before. The recruiter called US and when I asked some hard questions about what could be done to improve my son's chances of being awarded a scholarship, he said "His application is exceptional. He needs to apply to schools far from home that will be more diverse." This was not very reassuring!

But, the good news is that he joined the unit at Idaho as a college programmer and after two LONG years of being at the top of his class, was finally awarded a scholarship at the end of last year. It all worked out...but it hasn't been without a lot of frustration.

The ultimate frustration, of course, is being a college programmer and seeing some who are on scholarship completely take that opportunity for granted.

Kat

I'm glad it all worked out in the end for your DS.:smile: I would also like to apologize if it seemed like I was attacking you or your DS personally, I wasn't, my comments were aimed at the recruiter's statement and the subject in general. No ill will towards you or the OP was meant. That's the problem with electronic communication, intonation is difficult to convey.
 
I was told this last year by my interviewer. In my 100+ size Det, which has a decent number of scholarship cadets, I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. There are 3 black students on scholarship, me and 2 of the only 3 black POC. Probably half the Asians we have are on scholarship, but there arent that many so I feel like its safe to say that 85-90% of the scholarship cadets are white. Out of the 70 or so GMC, maybe 30-40% are minorities, a pretty decent number. You'd think, if race was a factor, there'd be a greater percentage of minorities on scholarship.

And I thought that school choice did matter for AFROTC, yes its not tied to one school, but the cheaper your top schools are, the more likely you are to get a scholarship since...what, 70%(?) of AFROTC scholarships are of the type that only pay IS tuition. My interviewer told me it was also a that my #1 school was IS with pretty cheap IS tuition rates considering its a top 5 engineering school. My major and 30+ college credits were also big pluses, had a really good inerview score too. It may have been something large or minuscule that tipped the balance out of the OP's favor, it may have been that his IS choice had high tuition rates or that he scored a few points lower on his interview than the person that did get it. IDK, I just highly doubt it was his race. With all due respect, I feel like that is just a scape goat excuse and people are too quick to turn to it. Hope I didn't come off as too abrasive, I do feel for the great candidates that were passed over this year, but I just get really annoyed when this comes up since all I feel like it does is cheapen my accomplishment.

I really think you took my comment the wrong way, in no way did I mean to imply that race was a scape goat.

AFROTC is different, a cadet can take that Type 7 and switch to a type 2 and go out of state, basically they can go where they want.

My son's battalion was nearly merged with a battalion in a neighboring state because the battalion lacked what the Army considered the proper level of diversity. Son's battalion is in a very non diversed state, the neighboring state is much more diverse. The goal the ROO has now is to try and recruit a more diverse battalion. The merger never happened but the goal is the same.

Since NROTC and AROTC scholarships are tied to the school, unlike AFROTC, this gives them much more control over the diversity of the battalions.

Not in any way saying this is not a good thing, diversity is important. I'm just saying that it can be a small issue when they select scholarship winners for each school. School selection plays a big part in the scholarship process for AROTC and NROTC, unlike AFROTC.

Nobody here was complaing about any diversity, it was just what was told to them.

One thing, you should in no way feel like your accomplshments are cheapend, you earned your scholarship and should be proud, anyone that hints that race had anything to do with it is a disservice to you and themselves.
 
I really think you took my comment the wrong way, in no way did I mean to imply that race was a scape goat.

AFROTC is different, a cadet can take that Type 7 and switch to a type 2 and go out of state, basically they can go where they want.

My son's battalion was nearly merged with a battalion in a neighboring state because the battalion lacked what the Army considered the proper level of diversity. Son's battalion is in a very non diversed state, the neighboring state is much more diverse. The goal the ROO has now is to try and recruit a more diverse battalion. The merger never happened but the goal is the same.

Since NROTC and AROTC scholarships are tied to the school, unlike AFROTC, this gives them much more control over the diversity of the battalions.

Not in any way saying this is not a good thing, diversity is important. I'm just saying that it can be a small issue when they select scholarship winners for each school. School selection plays a big part in the scholarship process for AROTC and NROTC, unlike AFROTC.

Nobody here was complaing about any diversity, it was just what was told to them.
.

Interesting, I did not know that. I can see your reasoning then. Like I said to Kmaidaho, no ill will was meant towards you either. In my head it sounded like I was offering a different side in a normal conversation, but over the Internet things like this tend to come out as accusations or attacks and for that, again, I apologize.
One thing, you should in no way feel like your accomplshments are cheapend, you earned your scholarship and should be proud, anyone that hints that race had anything to do with it is a disservice to you and themselves.

Thanks, this is usually my stance, but the insecurities slip in once in a while. It's hard to completely block them out when I've heard similar topics broached by family and friends alike. I'll never forget when a friend/aquaintence told me I could never go over her house b/c her parents were...you know:cool:

But back on topic....:rolleyes:sorry for derailing the thread guys.

OP,
I know this was a hard blow to take, but hang in there! Focus now on kicking butt in the Fall, ICS do exist, and with NROTC(correct me if im wrong as I heard this from a senior in NROTC) having most, if not all Upperclassmen on scholarship, I'm guessing they have more to give out than AFROTC. We have many 400s and 300s who have never gotten one. There were 2 200s and 2 100s here that got ICS this year though, so there's still hope in AFROTC.
 
Non Ducor,

The fact is for AFROTC you only have to put colleges that accept AFROTC, Their scholarship is based on 2 factors. Your stats and your major.

They create a score on those things, and the college choice does not matter a lick. Highest WCS gets a Type 1, IS or OOS. After that it goes to Type 2, than to Type 7. Type 7 cadets are offered at the same time to change it from Type 7 4 yr to Type 2 3 yr. The reason why is Type 2 allows the cadet to pay the difference if the tuition is above 18K, Type 7 cannot pay the difference. It really is not about IS or OOS. It is the 18K marker...for 7 the caveat is they will pay the equivalent of IS. You can go OOS to a college like TAMU with a Type 7 even if you live in NC.

NROTC and AROTC is partially about college choice. TAMU is an SMC, it is highly sought after, and unlike AFROTC where they don't care if 100% of cadets are on scholarship, NROTC does care. They have allotted XX amount of scholarships per unit.

Thus, the reason why school selection becomes a huge issue IMPO. Every yr there are threads in the fall discussing how the big demand colleges fill up faster than others and the importance of getting in your application in early, preferably by July/early August.

NROTC boards start meeting no later than beginning of Sept. @ 3 months prior to the 1st AFROTC board. NROTC and AROTC recipients fill this forum with college transfer questions for their scholarship... you will never see that from an AFROTC recipient. You will only see how to convert a type 7 to a 2, which is basically a given the minute ask for it. The only time they go through the process is if they ask to change majors from a Tech to a Non-tech, and in this current environment, chances are close to zip, zilch, nada regardless of what school you are attending... Again why it is not the college that is the factor for AFROTC.
 
I'd just like to say that I began attending the University of Missouri Fall 2013 enrolled in the NROTC program as a College Programmer. I reapplied for a 4 year scholarship and found out today that I received said 4 year scholarship.
 
RyanJT, congratulations on doing what it took to make it happen!! That is wonderful. You earned it, that's for sure. I flipped to the first post and your stats are very impressive. I am glad you were able to eventually get a scholarship.
 
I'd just like to say that I began attending the University of Missouri Fall 2013 enrolled in the NROTC program as a College Programmer. I reapplied for a 4 year scholarship and found out today that I received said 4 year scholarship.

Way to go! Congratulations!
 
CONGRATULATIONS!! Love seeing someone like you continuing to pursue your dream and being successful. I have no doubt you will be an outstanding officer.
 
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