What's happening with Army ROTC?

aglages,

(snip)
If you are right, that is, at a competitive school, the ROTC scholarship winners are not necessarily the top 10% of the admitted students at that university, then it's good news for us. (snip)
I figure, it's better to aim high but prepare for the worst....

I think your aim strategy is right on the mark.

As a point of reference, my son received a national scholarship when he was only at the statistical midpoint of his school's admitted students. Depending on one's perspective, Wake Forest may or may not be considered a competitive school. But, for Son, it was his biggest reach. So I'd say (with an ED app) you have reason to be optimistic for your son.

Good luck! :smile:
 
. In fact, in almost all schools, ED applicants get boost. There was even a book about the admission games and the author showed, after pretty extensive data analysis, that ED application almost equals extra 100 points in SAT or equivalent in GPA.

We have gone through the admission process 2x, 1 is in the AFROTC, the other is not in ROTC at all, so please take that into consideration within this reply. I am unsure if you are saying just ROTC applicants for ED or all ED applicants.

Both of our children did ED. Our eldest's ED was also a slight reach academically from a gpa standpoint, but his SAT/ACT were both way over the 75% marker, closer to the top 5%. We felt that having the AFROTC scholarship would also help him in getting a spot. It didn't. He was deferred to RD.
This was Notre Dame, in the end he decided to go to another college because of their Scholars program.

Our DD applied ED for VTech, her gpa was on the top (graduated Magna Cum Laude) with an AICE citatation. Her SAT was in the top 75%. She also was deferred, a long with every other student at her hs. She is now happily at VT.

Admissions these days are not just about the academic records, a lot has o do with diversity and the intended major too. Additionally, from an admissions point, it is more comfortable to take someone like my DD than someone like our DS. The reason this occurs is because they question why the disparagy between a higher SAT and a lower gpa....i.e. top 80% nationally on the SAT, but in the hs they are ranked at the top 30% of the school, leaving them to question they have the brains, but do they have the strive? Are they academically lazy? They know that as a freshman there will be plenty of diversions at the school, more than they had in hs. Their goal is to have the student graduate.

The student with the lower SAT, but the higher gpa, qualms their fears because the student shows that they have that ability to understand the material, but maybe they are not a good test taker.

Schools also do place a lot now on EC's. They do this because they want to see that the student has experience in time management. The job/position description does not mean as much as the amount of time that is spent. A student who works 20 hrs a week, and is on NHS, plus volunteers while carrying a 3.6 uwgpa with 5 AP's is the student that shows they can multi task without sacrificing their grades.

I am not saying the author's stats are incorrect, I would be curious to see when this was published. A lot has changed between 2005 and now in the college admissions process. Mainly, the economy which also impacts the % of admitted students, since many parents are saying, I know this is your dream school, but we can't afford it.

Additionally, I hope when he showed these stats, he broke it down between private and public. Once breaking down public, I hope he broke the stats down again between IS and OOS. For example, UMD has a reg. that only 25% of students may be OOS. However, UMDCP is a big draw for NY/NJ/CT students. Getting into UMDCP from one of those areas is much harder than if you were from Idaho. The reason why is UMDCP also wants diversity from a national standpoint, they don't want every OOS student to be from NJ/NY/CT.

In VA. Tech accepts 30% OOS, but their architecture program is ranked in the top 10 in the nation. I believe they only accept 100 students from OOS for this particular program, and that includes international. So, if you are applying ED for architecture, those stats won't help you at all. Not only your geographic location can matter, but the major, legacy and URM could be the real boost that you need to get in ED.

ROTC could be one of their boosts. Some colleges actually speak to the ROTC dept regarding admissions. Some don't. It would behoove you to find out if they talk. This might assist you in the ED process. AT our DS's college the det does not talk to admissions. At UNCCH they do talk. Again, you can't accept on face value that they all talk, you need to investigate further in regards to that particular college. Our DS didn't even apply to UNCCH, but he got a letter from the after the application deadline stating they would admit him, due to further investigation we learned that the AFROTC board releases the list to all AFROTC dets and that is how UNCCH found out about him. The det saw he was an IS student with a match to UNCCH, so they had UNCCH offer him admission without ever applying to UNCCH. UMDCP and ND would never do this. He also started his NYU app, but never completed it, they even sent a reminder notice to complete it, April came around and he got a BFE from them. We just figured AFROTC talks there also.

The big picture is to understand, you should not place a blanket statement that ED gives you a boost, because it is not necessarily true. There are schools that only give ED to those they know will be an automatic admit come RD with some merit to go along with it. To say almost all schools do this is giving hope when it maybe totally false.

I would suggest if you have yet to find www.collegeconfidential.com to go there and post a chance thread under the actual college. Most of the posters on those threads are actual students are parents who attend the
school. If it is a college like VTech, ERAU, TX A&M, Notre Dame, VMI, etc where they have a large ROTC or Corp program you can also ask about it with ROTC, however, if it is a school like UPenn, I would leave it out since the dets are very smaller compared to the class size and you might not get any responses since other posters may believe that admissions is connected to the ROTC issue. It is more important to see what your real chances are for admission and then place ROTC into the mix as a follow up.


JMHO now throw it in the circular filing cabinet.

Good luck
 
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Pima,

As usual, you are an amazing source of advice and wisdom. Your points were very well taken. Thank you so much.

We have done some research on S's dream school, and all available data tells us that this school does give boost to the ED applicants. Furthermore, the battalion officers and the admission officers to talk, I learned.

Based on my discussion with a few PMSs, this is what I learned. (note: this is just a sample of 7-8, so may not be generalized to a larger set).

It appears that at a highly competitive tippy top schools, the PMS has very little influence on admission officers. At other schools, they may have a great deal of influence. One PMS, who draws cadets from several schools, even said "with school X (tippy top school), I have no influence. With school Y, I can get my favorite candidate, a candidate good enough to get national scholarship, into that school with 80-90% confidence. With school Z, most of the candidates who are good enough to be admitted into that school may not make a cut to win a national scholarship to begin with".

Another PMS told me, "at our battalion, candidates with SAT below XXX won't even get us to read the rest of his application. If the cadet command sends him/her application for our feedback, our answer would be automatic NO". Wow. that was an eye opening statement.

Note that this XXX score was about the average of the "enrolled" freshman students at a rather competitive school that the battalion is serving, and there are several other, less competitive schools that battalion is supposedly drawing cadets from. Luckily S's SAT is well above that, but for some other candidates, knowing this, s/he should not even bother to put that battalion/school on the school choice - it's a waste of a precious spot which should go to other schools/battalion where s/he has a shot at getting a scholarship to.

The more I learn about this whole thing, the more I realize how little we know what's really going on.
 
ED and ROTC

We were in a very similar situation to educateme last year, except that financially we knew we'd need an ROTC scholarship to afford daughter's #1 school choice.

In the fine print, most ED committments have an exception if insufficient financial aid is available to afford the school. This is there because ED committments must be made (usually Novmeber) before financial aid is determiend (usuallly the following March).

We opted to have our daughter apply ED for her #1 stretch school. She was accepted and eventually got an AROTC scholarship. The other aid we received would not have been sufficient. In that case, we would have opted out of the ED committment and shifted to Plan B.

I note this because there is a perception that ED committments are fully binding. I think this is only true if you have an income so high that financial aid won't be a factor.
 
Early Decision Quirk

Here's an odd one ED applicants may want to be careful about. My son applied for early decision, was accepted, and was set for college. He didnt apply to any other schools.

However, it took him a number of months to get his ROTC application in so his package wasnt seen until one the last review boards. When he was eventually offered a scholarship in the late spring, it was for a school to which he had not applied. Apparently in the ROTC app (which I never saw) he had to provide four or five alternate choices for ROTC.

Fortunately for him, the people ahead of him on the list at his first choice selected other colleges or service academies. I called the PMS to make sure he understood that his school was my son's first and only choice. It's unclear whether this made a difference, but It couldnt have hurt.
 
It is very important for AROTC and NROTC candidates to heed Ed's example. Every yr there will be many posters that come on and say CRAP, I got a scholarship to a school I wasn't accepted to, but not to the one I did get accepted, what do I do now.

You call the PMS ASAP and try to change it.

The problem with the AROTC and NROTC system is that traditionally kids will apply for reach, match and safety. Make sure you do this because unlike the AFROTC scholarship you are tied to the schools on the list. If you only put reaches and they all say no, you will be SOL if you get a scholarship since you can't take it with you.

Educate,

I don't know about the AROTC with UNCCH (which is known as a public IVY and very competitive), but I know the AF det has an in with admission. I know that UVA does not talk to ROTC through the admission process. A lot of times the college also wants the ROTC on campus for diversity selling points and recruiting higher caliber students. The reason this occurs is because they know about the scholarship process, and like merit the cadets must carry a specific gpa. Not only do they need that gpa, but cadets strive for higher gpas due to the fact that their career assignment comes from a board decision like the scholarship board, and one of the sections is the gpa.

They also know that cadets MUST graduate in 4 yrs if they are on scholarship. This statistically helps them in promoting the college.

They also know that the students tuition will be paid, and they can count on that money. They don't need to worry about giving more merit out from their endowments to recruit students.

Finally, they are also cheap labor. Every det does community work, and many times it is cleaning up the football or basketball stadium after games. Colleges like UMDCP, NCST, Tech all have 50-70K people attending the game. SOmebody has to clean it up. I don't think UMDCP pays for the stadium to ever be cleaned because they use the ROTC dets to do it, and that saves them money.

They not only do clean up, but they also do fundraising for on and off campus things...i.e. Relay for Life, Susan. G. Kohlman, etc. Which again adds into the school profile which they can use to advertise to get more applicants.

Colleges with no ROTC, do not receive any of this free publicity. For example, George Mason students commute to UMDCP for AFROTC, thus, all they can state in their brochures is you may be in AFROTC, but commute to GMU for ROTC. For some students that know they will not have a vehicle to transport them to and from the different schools 2x a week, they will immediately mark that school off the list.
 
Thanks for the information educateme.
Question: If you are confident that your son has a shot at winning a campus based scholarship, wouldn't you be equally confident that he could win a National AROTC scholarship prior to being admitted into his "dream" school? Would the standards be "lower" for a campus based scholarship or are there some others factors that you are considering?

Based on our experiece, I would say that it is easier to get the campus-based scholarship.
The number one reason is that you are able to develop a relationship with the cadre during the process by meeting with them and maintaining communications, whereas you do not have that opportunity with the National.
Should your qualifications be good enough for National as well as campus-based? I would think so-
Our cadre told us that they had no clue as to why our son was not offered a National scholarship.
Who knows what happened?-
paperwork could have misplaced, overlooked-there could have been a big coffee stain in the middle of his application....
There is a lot to be said for being in personal contact with the officers at your school. Be honest and let them know that this is the school of your dreams and you are working hard to meet their standards for joining their battalion. They appreciate that eagerness and are definitely looking for that athlete/scholar/leader-They get a lot of athletes but not as many athlete/scholar/leaders.:smile
 
Based on our experiece, I would say that it is easier to get the campus-based scholarship.
Army, Navy or Air force? I think you make a lot of good points and I agree with them, but if the branch you are trying to join just doesn't have the money/scholarships/ROTC slots to give, it doesn't matter how qualified you are or how interested they are.

Reports seem to indicate that the AROTC may have more In-College scholarships available this year than last year and more than the AFROTC & NROTC.

I do not know the entire profile of the following candidate, but on paper he sounds pretty spectacular....yet no In-College NROTC scholarship.
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?p=137188#post137188

Unfortunately I've seen posts from AFROTC applicants that thought they were going to receive an In-College scholarship after the first year and were also denied despite the recommendations of their cadre. IMHO...this is not the time to join the AFROTC or NROTC without a scholarship and with the hopes of receiving one. Certainly join if you want to be an officer but you need to be realistic about the scholarship environment and your chances of receiving a scholarship while In-College.
 
Army is very unique in the process from multiple levels.

The most important is to understand that they are the only branch I am aware of that their supply is not surpassed by the demand.

This is not meant as an insult. The fact is the Army is the largest branch, thus they will have more scholarships than the AF or the Navy.

I know nothing about In College scholarships for the Navy, but I 1000% agree with AG, if the AF is your route, currently, you will most likely be SOL regarding an in school scholarship.

The other problem for applying from an in-college standpoint is det jobs. The fact is many freshman do the test the waters and drop ROTC after their freshman yr. Commanders know this, however they will still give freshman jobs within the det. Now who to give it to? The cadet that is contracted because of the scholarship or the one who isn't. I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to answer that question. These jobs parlay into higher jobs within the det. That parlays into getting FT as a C200. This now parlays into meeting your career board as a C300, which now determines what you will do as an AD member.

The point is every action is a stepping stone for the next action. ROTC is no different.
 
For AFROTC C100 = fresh, C200=Soph., C300 = Jr, C400= Sr,

They are actually opposite than the AFA.

C4C= fresh, C3C=Soph, C2C=JR and C1C=Sr.

The Navy and Army may have a different system.

The one thing they hold in common is that career assignments (AFSC for AF) come down in their JR yr.
 
I know nothing about In College scholarships for the Navy, but I 1000% agree with AG, if the AF is your route, currently, you will most likely be SOL regarding an in school scholarship.
The Air Force is offering some In-College scholarships in certain fields/majors that they are short of... Certainly I wouldn't recommend pursuing any of these fields just to increase your chances of receiving an AFROTC scholarship. But, if these majors are what you intend to study anyway your chances of receiving an AFROTC In-College scholarship might be improved. Currently they need Computer Engineers, Electrical Engineers, Nurses and a few foreign language majors.
http://afrotc.com/scholarships/in-college/express-scholarships/
http://afrotc.com/admissions/professional-programs/nursing/
http://afrotc.com/scholarships/in-college/foreign-language-majors/
 
Nurses have always been a shortage...I tend to think the problem is many fall in love with AD officers and resign their commission instead of being a 2 AD family...at least this is true for all of our friends who were Nurses...sorry AG, start making that wedding fund, because I don't know one AD nurse who was not married by the end of her 1st tour. The upshot is she got an honorable husband!

Supply and demand!
 
For AFROTC C100 = fresh, C200=Soph., C300 = Jr, C400= Sr,

They are actually opposite than the AFA.

C4C= fresh, C3C=Soph, C2C=JR and C1C=Sr.

The Navy and Army may have a different system.

The one thing they hold in common is that career assignments (AFSC for AF) come down in their JR yr.

Army ROTC
MSI-Freshmen
MSII-Sophomores
MSIII-Juniors
MSIV-Seniors

PS-It's funny because nursing is actually one of the most popular majors at my battalion.
 
PS-It's funny because nursing is actually one of the most popular majors at my battalion.
In my daughter's AFROTC Detachment there are only 3 currently on scholarship.
1 - C300
1 - C200
1 - C100 - My daughter
 
I am still trying to find out if the number of total Army ROTC scholarships are being cut as some are reporting.

What I have found is THIS and THIS:
Speech by SOD Gates August 9, 2010 "SEC. GATES: Good afternoon. As you know, we’ve been intensely focused on fundamentally changing the way the Pentagon does business. Given the fiscal challenges facing the nation, the Department of Defense must make every dollar count. But as I’ve stressed before, this effort is not about reducing the Defense top line but about getting more bang for the buck by shifting resources from overhead to the military capabilities needed today and in the future."....

"-- In June, the military services were assigned the task of finding more than $100 billion in overhead savings over the next five years. The services will be able to keep any of the savings they generate to invest in higher priority war fighting needs."


This directive could have resulted in the Army cutting ROTC scholarships.
If it does, the Army may turn to OCS to make up the missing officers, OCS is a little cheaper in the short run.
It could also mean more 2, 3, 3AD scholarships which are cheaper as well.
It could also mean less new officers, if some general feels a new 'super tank' or something like that is more valuable.
(Anyone remember the 'Gamma Goat'?)

Is the College Loan Repayment Program (CLRP) still in effect for OCS?
 
NROTC:

Freshmen = MIDN 4/C (Midshipmen 4th Class)
Sophomore = MIDN 3/C
Junior = MIDN 2/C
Senior = MIDN 1/C

(I cringe every time someone refers to the NROTC Mids as cadets, lol.)
 
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