When do we find out?

bulldog300,

(Forgive me if this sounds sophomoric -- it is not intended as such.) As you no doubt know, you must put your best foot forward in your application but can't get an appointment without a nomination. There are many ways to get a nomination (you probably already know them) but the most prevalent is through your Congressman or the two US Senators for your state - "Members of Congress" or MOCs. Each MOC can nominate up to ten people (or however many apply -- your "what if only three apply" example) for each opening they have (and they can have 5 at an academy at any one time - usually a 4th, 3rd, 2nd, and 1st classman plus a 5th opening they are taking applications for).

For each opening, the MOC can have all ten nominations with NO rank order, can designate their first place (a principle nominee) and have the other 9 un-ranked, or they can designate a principle, a second, third, etc. to the tenth and last. It is good to find out how your three MOCs do it (and your 3 could all do it differently).

If you have a principle nomination and are qualified, the academy must appoint you (the MOC is saying, in essence "here's who I want; appoint him/her if they are qualified for an appointment"). If you are ranked (2 through 10 behind the principle) then they go in order until a qualified person gets the appointment. If you are unranked (just one of 10 nominees) then you first compete against the other 9 (the MOC is saying, in essence, "here's my best 10, you take who YOU want"). But even if you don't get the appointment charged to your MOC, you go into a nation-wide pool of remaining applicants and then still have a good chance at an appointment. Remember, there are 535 MOCs nation-wide, and 1300+ or more appointments given, so even if you aren't one of those directly charged from your nominee's slate, you still have a great chance (provided you've got a good package) of getting an appointment. There are MANY threads on this site that discuss this, and go into it in much greater detail. Do a little research and you'll find lots of information! :thumb: Best of luck!
 
Thanks. This does clear some stuff up. I got a nomination, but I don't know if my Congressman ranked them or not. But I'm not going to worry about all that now. I'm glad that I now know (basically) how the Academy actually makes decisions, so now I'm going to try to not worry about when they do it... patience is a virtue, right? Thanks for the explanation...
 
bigcox said:
the four stages on the USAFA application are:
prospect-you show interest
applicant-they processed your application
candidate-you have a nom. or they will seriously consider you
appointee/cadet-you're in!

i could be wrong with the above, but that's the jist from what i can gather from other posts. good luck! :thumb: are you going to spain or something? i wish i could get out of nebraska for at least a little bit...
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I'm going to Asia to study for the semester. According to Chrisitcorp, I guess i'll have to cut my trip short early a.k.a. drop out and get home and fill out all those forms. very little chance my parents would forward it to me...
 
Also does anybody know how the Academy calculates GPA? According to them it's a 3.88 but my transcript shows 4.2
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Just like every college you apply to, they have their own formula to remove the weighting of the grades. Some schools may have APs at 4, 5, or 6, thus, they re-weight the score so everybody is on the same level. Some kids will see their gpa remain the same, some will see an increase and some will see a decrease. In our DS's case the gpa remained the same as his uw. My guess is that you may have APs or Honors that were assigned a higher weight avg than what they typically assign or that is your uw and you just never paid attentionto it.
 
tennisfan88 said:
I'm going to Asia to study for the semester. According to Chrisitcorp, I guess i'll have to cut my trip short early a.k.a. drop out and get home and fill out all those forms. very little chance my parents would forward it to me...
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tennisfan, I think you can change you should be able to change your mailing address and have the package or correct forms sent to your school overseas. Talk to your ALO and you Admissions officer--tell them your situation, they should be able to help you make sure YOU get your mail. Have a great time on your semester abroad! Best of luck to you!
 
As to tennis; if you've got a good rapport with your ALO; have the address changed so the appointment offer is sent to him/her. (They are going to get a copy/version anyway). The ALO may even be able to work it out where S/He can scan/email the required signature forms and send them to you. Then you can sign those and mail them back. Definitely work with your ALO. And no matter what you think about what your parents will or won't do, realize that they probably love you a lot. Military service is hard for a lot of parents to deal with. Especially if they have political or moral values that conflict with yours.

As for the "Re-Weighting" of the GPA system", that is definitely a strange one. But understandable. Mainly because most applicants are taking individual honors type classes. E.g. AP Calc, AP History, etc... It makes weighting difficult. There's basically 5 scenarios that the academy has to weight in GPA. 1) Traditional student with no AP/IP classes taken or available; (Includes home schooled). 2) Student who takes individual honor type classes; (Mix of regular and honor classes). 3) Student who is in a full time honors program; (e.g. IB program where all their classes are pretty much honors classes). 4) Schools that weight their student's GPA to compensate for honors classes. 5) Schools that don't weight at all for any class.

Obviously, the easiest for the academy to work with is the student in a school that they are in a full time honors program with all classes being honors, and the school DOESN'T weight their gpa. But unfortunately, that wouldn't be very fair for the 3.85 gpa/IB student/non-weighted school competing with someone from their own school who has a 4.0 gpa but none are in honors. From what I've been told from the academy, but it could be wrong, the basic concept is that they don't look at your actual GPA. (Other than the self reported portion in the beginning of the application process). For official, they take your transcript classes and grades and inputs them. If they are a regular class, they are left as "Normal". If they are an honor's class, they are given additional compensation. They then take in any additional considerations and calculate your gpa. That is what you see. So in theory; if your school doesn't weight the gpa, you should never see your GPA go down. But if your school does weight, chances are that your score may go down. Not WILL, but MAY. But realize that this is a process that they have been doing for quite a few years. You're not getting screwed over. They know the difference between honors and traditional classes and whether you took the most challenging available to you or not. They know the difference between a 3.85 traditional; 4.0 honors unweighted; and a 4.6 honors weighted. And where you fit in that. Best of luck to everyone. Mike....
 
This is also why your school rank comes into play. If your school weights, Honors, AP/IB, even if you get an 85 in AP on a 6.0, your GPA would be higher than the kid that got 100% in honors (5.1 vs. 5.0) and thus you still will outrank them...add the kid that takes std with a 4.0 and you are still ahead if you went as far as carrying a 70 in the AP.

Again, remember that the AFA does look at how many APs and IBs that the school offers, they will not hold it against you for only taking 4 APs when only 5 are offered. They will feel differently if you took only 1 AP and 5 were offered.

When DS was applying, we pd for a second transcript, b/c I was nosy and wanted to see what goes in a sealed transcript. Included in it, was acad % (ie. 90 on 6 = 5.4, on 5 =4.5, on 4. =3.6) and what the uw/w equivalents were for ea course. Than the background of the school, how many were in the class and rank. PSAT, SAT, ACT and EOGs. How many APs he took and the scores. How many APS were offered, how many students took the AP courses and what the avg score was for ea AP. They also gave the satistics of how many kids go to Ivies, Very Selective, Selective, 2 yr, trade and workforce after graduation( this is to show how comp. the school is). Finally their letter about mandatory core courses and how AP program works. For example, you can't take AP Physics without taking Physics Honors 1st. Same with AP anything, you must 1st take the mandated class, thus, it is difficult, almost impossible to grad with AP BIO, Chem and Physics. With that knowledge they can see did the kid slack or pushed themselves to carry the hardest course load. That is all handed in by your GC.

Our transcript might not be the norm, but at least that was what was in ours. Being surprised by the info I even asked the gc about it, and she said for NC that is the requirements for every transcript they submit to any college... and she recalled the gc form for the AFA had requested all of that info.
 
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Can't re-emphasize enough what was said about "Be involved with your ALO!"

We ALO's can get a LOT of things done, re-arranged, etc...etc...IF IF IF the candidate will work with us.

Remember...your ALO was NOT assigned the ALO position; they volunteered for it, went through a local screening interview, then was "vetted" by HQ ARPC and USAFA/RR. Some units...this is a cursory interview. In Arizona...it's pretty involved because we demand a LOT from our ALO's. We work our ALO's HARD but...AZ students do incredibly well (typically get around 40 - 50 direct appointee's to USAFA annually). Figure that from a "not so big state" going into a class of 1300 or so.

Call your ALO early and often; keep them in the loop. We are usually the LAST TO KNOW when:

a. A candidate has difficulty with DODMERB, paperwork, etc.
b. A candidate recieves an LOA or an appointment. We typically find out from an excited phone call/e-mail, or when a package arrives with a copy of the letter of appointment and the certificate.

The BIG advantage we have is, while we don't know it all...we do know and have access to the folks that DO!

Steve
USAFA ALO, AZ
 
P.S. also emphasize that the academy only uses a 4.0 scale for everyone. If your GPA is above a 4.0 based on your school's system, it WILL go done. ;)
 
flyersboy114 said:
If I lost my ALO's phone number, where can u get it?
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It should be in your paperwork; or definitely on the candidate page at USAFA.

HOWEVER...if you can't find it; if you know the name and tell me where you are: flieger83@cox.net I can get it for you.

Or...send your HS name, city/state, and I'll get your ALO's name, phone, etc.

Steve
USAFA ALO
 
DS loved his ALO, he was a very calming influence during a rollercoaster ride. Make sure you as the applicant/candidate contact them...not Mom or Dad (blaring sirens go off...does the kid want to go or do the folks want the kid to go)

Remember, we all can give generic advice built on experience of what we have seen pass through this site, it is the ALO that knows what kids from your area have made it and what kids haven't made it historically. They can help you polish the essay much better than the folks, b/c ALO's also submit a rec., thus they can do the AF speak.

I would def. call your ALO now and ask him/her to re-eval your packet and see if you need to add new info. It might be something you overlooked or thought it meant nothing...i.e. DS was a lifeguard and promoted to Sr Lifeguard/ Pool Operational asst mgr...he never thought about adding it in. His ALO, had him re-send it b/c with that he had 10 lifeguards reporting to him, which showed more leadership.
 
Bulldog, unless you enjoy taking standardized tests, don't worry about your scores. Don't forget the academies are looking at the "whole person", not just numbers.

Your GPA is weighted at your school. The academies strip out the weighting, for good reason. Schools that weight GPA's, do so on arbitrary standards that their district applies. In other words an AP class may earn a 4.2 or a 4.5 for an A grade. Such weighting can make a big difference, especially for those whose schools do not weight their grades.
 
Yeah I'm not worry about it too much but I probably going to try to retake the ACT just to be safe (that is, if the scores will be ready in time). Those one or two points here or there could make a difference...
 
I was wondering about the "whole person" thing. From looking at the academyadmissions website, it states that 60% of your score (i guess how they grade overall) is academic, and then 20% is extracurricular, and 20% more is from the admissions panel.
Lets say my academics are good but not the greatest, but I do a lot of extra stuff, will that affect me a lot? I do a plethora of activities with my AJROTC group, including training and community/school service.

Also, I was wondering how bad my SAT score will affect me. It states that if you have below 580 on verbal, that you aren't normally competitive. My scores:
SAT: Math-670 Verbal/critical reading- 570
ACT: Math-30 Reading-33 English-26 Science-32 (Composite-30)

Now, because the verbal/crit.Reading is 10 below their standards, but the reading on the ACT was a 33 (ranked 98% according to the site), will they see that the ACT was high?
 
xTxMANx said:
I was wondering about the "whole person" thing. From looking at the academyadmissions website, it states that 60% of your score (i guess how they grade overall) is academic, and then 20% is extracurricular, and 20% more is from the admissions panel.
Lets say my academics are good but not the greatest, but I do a lot of extra stuff, will that affect me a lot? I do a plethora of activities with my AJROTC group, including training and community/school service.

Also, I was wondering how bad my SAT score will affect me. It states that if you have below 580 on verbal, that you aren't normally competitive. My scores:
SAT: Math-670 Verbal/critical reading- 570
ACT: Math-30 Reading-33 English-26 Science-32 (Composite-30)

Now, because the verbal/crit.Reading is 10 below their standards, but the reading on the ACT was a 33 (ranked 98% according to the site), will they see that the ACT was high?
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Hi!

Okay, from this ALO's perspective...and remember that means precisely ZIP as far as the board goes... :smile:

I would guess that you'll be scored on your ACT and not your SAT. Why? Because you have a composite of 30 (not amazing but very good). The SAT math score is actually very nice...right in the center of the "hunt range" that I like as an ALO. The verbal...you said it yourself, it's NOT helping you. BUT...the ACT reading is outstanding; the English..again, it's "okay" but not outstanding. Your other ACT scores are right in the hunt in a score range I like to see.

So...if you were MY candidate here's what I'd tell you:

a. You're in the hunt BUT...you need to do some more work on the ACT/SAT
b. If you can afford it, take BOTH tests again, and again, until it's "too late" to do it. You can't hurt yourself and you just might hit that "once upon a time score" like I did...on my 12th SAT.
c. KEEP after everything else you're doing...the game isn't over until you have an appointment in hand and are being sworn in OR you get "the letter" that I have one of each from USAFA/USNA/USMA/USCGA saying "your amazing, outstanding, BUT..."
d. The next year I got ALL of them as appointments...well, except for USCGA; I was an alternate. They're TOUGH.

IF your CFA went well, your ALO interview went well, etc...etc...school, community service, recommendations, etc...etc...then I'd say "YOU'RE IN THE PACK...now go after the kill!"

Sorry...pilot jabber there.

Steve
USAFA ALO, AZ
AFA '83
 
If you want to bump up your ACT or SAT scores then I highly recommend getting a tutor. I had taken the ACT 3 times and my highest composite was a 28. My superscore was a 29. English:27 Math:27 Reading:33 Science:28. My mom pursuaded me to take a month of tutoring (I didn't really like the thought of having a tutor b/c I thought it made me sound dumb). I took the December ACT and got my scores back yesterday. Scores- Composite:33 English:35 Math:33 Reading:31 Science: 32! All that to say if you want to raise your scores, I highly recommend getting a tutor. Thankfully USAFA (not sure about the other academies) lets you update your application until early March (I think). So you still have some time.
 
Just curiously, has anyone received an appointment yet who didn't receive an LOA?
 
yeah, I want to take it again and get a tutor, but I currently do not have the extra cash to do it. I thought the AFA SAT/ACT updates were due in feb.?
 
xTxMANx said:
I was wondering about the "whole person" thing. From looking at the academyadmissions website, it states that 60% of your score (i guess how they grade overall) is academic, and then 20% is extracurricular, and 20% more is from the admissions panel.
Lets say my academics are good but not the greatest, but I do a lot of extra stuff, will that affect me a lot? I do a plethora of activities with my AJROTC group, including training and community/school service.

Also, I was wondering how bad my SAT score will affect me. It states that if you have below 580 on verbal, that you aren't normally competitive. My scores:
SAT: Math-670 Verbal/critical reading- 570
ACT: Math-30 Reading-33 English-26 Science-32 (Composite-30)

Now, because the verbal/crit.Reading is 10 below their standards, but the reading on the ACT was a 33 (ranked 98% according to the site), will they see that the ACT was high?
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Flieger already explained the SAT/ACT perfectly, so no need to go over that again. But to concur; had you only taken the SAT, I would say you'd have a little problem. Being you also took the ACT and did well, you'll be fine. But as recommended, you can NEVER go wrong with taking either test as many times as you can afford to.

As for the rest of the scoring; the "Whole Person", while 3 categories, includes a lot of sub categories. For instance; the academics includes your GPA, SAT, ACT, Course Difficulty, Class Ranking, School Profile, and I'm sure I'm missing some other points. So, while you may not have done the best in the world in one area, you could easily make up for it. You will see plenty of people who get appointments wit lower ACT than you; and some who don't get an appointment with Higher ACT than you. I know one candidate last year who scored lower than you in the ACT (29 composite); scored higher in the SAT (730 math 640 verb/CR). He made up for any short fall here by being in the IB program (Thus getting a better score); having a 4.0 gpa (Unweighted, so max points); and a class rank of #1. This individual is doing quite well as a cadet this year. So while people want to look at their SAT, ACT, GPA, etc... and try and gauge themselves; it's really difficult. There's so many additional factors that go into the academics section

As for the other 2 sections; they may not seem like a lot, percentage wise, but they are very important. Remember last year's class had an AVERAGE incoming GPA of 3.85 (Air force Style). That means quite a few 4.0 and quite a few in the 3.6 area. And my guess is because there are also some in the 3.3 - 3.4 area, that there were probably a very good percentage of gpa's HIGHER than the 3.85 average. That being said, it was probably the other 40% in extra curricular activities and the admissions panel that includes all the interviews, CFA, sports, recommendations, etc.. bla bla bla; that made the difference between getting in and not.

Each university has their quotas and criteria and the academy is no different. I.e. If you are from a podunk state like Wyoming, Dakotas, Montana, etc... you have a MUCH BETTER chance of getting into Harvard, yale, Princeton, etc... than someone from California, Texas, New York, etc... It's the school's own version of affirmative action or diversity. They want students from all over. If you are from Wyoming and apply to a school with NO STUDENTS from Wyoming; and you meet the minimum requirements; you are almost guaranteed acceptance. The academy has this already built into the system. It's done with your state's representatives. Each state is authorized a maximum of so many cadets, to ensure that some states aren't left out. Plus, there are other nominations to help get others in. But there's so many congressional rules in place to make sure that there's equity and balance, that it is fair. It is sad that there will be some applicants who have what it takes to get into an Ivy League school but didn't get the appointment to the academy. But there's also a lot of people who get turned down by one academy and accepted at another. So ALWAYS have more than one choice. Good luck all. mike....
 
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