Which SMC Has the Best Facilities?

glen said:
My daughters attended major research universities. Oldest went to Penn State in the 90s. The dorms at State College were not that great, but students quickly moved into luxury apartments off campus as sophomores. My youngest lived on the 36th floor of a luxury apartment that NYU purchased for a dorm - she was in the pent house suit on the top floor with 2 other kids. Place had a pool and several restaurants! This is why tuition and fees are so out of control at American schools compared to European universities. My guess is that era is coming to an end. The escalating costs and maintenance of luxury dorms is out of control.
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Perhaps, but I don't think Penn State is any more expensive for an out-of-state student than The Citadel, is it?
 
pa-outdoorsman said:
Perhaps, but I don't think Penn State is any more expensive for an out-of-state student than The Citadel, is it?
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My daughter was at State College ‘94-99, so been awhile - but a quick google shows out of state tuition and fees, R&B etc. at Penn State is remarkably similar to out of state at El CID - except at University Park a student can sell their football tickets for big games for as much as $5,000 ….not happening in Charleston….

“For the 2024-2025 academic year, out-of-state tuition and fees at Penn State University Park are approximately $41,790, while the total cost of attendance (including tuition, fees, housing, food, books, and personal expenses) is around $59,846.”
 
glen said:
My daughter was at State College ‘94-99, so been awhile - but a quick google shows out of state tuition and fees, R&B etc. at Penn State is remarkably similar to out of state at El CID - except at University Park a student can sell their football tickets for big games for as much as $5,000 ….not happening in Charleston….

“For the 2024-2025 academic year, out-of-state tuition and fees at Penn State University Park are approximately $41,790, while the total cost of attendance (including tuition, fees, housing, food, books, and personal expenses) is around $59,846.”
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Right. So, out of state costs are roughly equivalent, and we can include VMI as well, as their published costs are roughly identical to The Citadel's. I might not be able to sell Citadel football tickets for big money, but I am looking forward to the VMI game this fall...
 
glen said:
My daughter was at State College ‘94-99, so been awhile - but a quick google shows out of state tuition and fees, R&B etc. at Penn State is remarkably similar to out of state at El CID - except at University Park a student can sell their football tickets for big games for as much as $5,000 ….not happening in Charleston….

“For the 2024-2025 academic year, out-of-state tuition and fees at Penn State University Park are approximately $41,790, while the total cost of attendance (including tuition, fees, housing, food, books, and personal expenses) is around $59,846.”
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One interesting thing a friend told me a few weeks ago...their daughter attends Penn State and they were paying out of state tuition. However, her husband served in the military and a new law passed in Pennsylvania recently for in state tuition for those who served/parent served. She said her daughter looked into it and a few weeks later they had a credit of over $50K in their account! She's a current sophomore for reference.
 
airforce_brat said:
One interesting thing a friend told me a few weeks ago...their daughter attends Penn State and they were paying out of state tuition. However, her husband served in the military and a new law passed in Pennsylvania recently for in state tuition for those who served/parent served. She said her daughter looked into it and a few weeks later they had a credit of over $50K in their account! She's a current sophomore for reference.
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Wow! Good for them.

Post is drifting. Let's see some more SMC facility photos.
 
pa-outdoorsman said:
I was inspired to start this thread by some conversation about the state of affairs at the USMMA. Of course, that's not a Senior Military College, and I figured it's not really fair to compare apples and oranges.

Also, I do not claim to know the answer to this question, as I have only visited two of the six SMCs — Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, Norwich University, Virginia Military Institute, The Citadel and University of North Georgia, for those who aren't familiar.

DS attends The Citadel. I'd say it's a beautiful campus FROM THE OUTSIDE. Absolutely a picturesque setting in a beautiful city, and the weather is generally excellent. However, most of the buildings are pretty old and I doubt the campus overall would make any "top 10" lists published by the experts. And granted, the "barracks" aren't intended to be posh like new dorms at regular colleges, and the "mess hall" isn't really designed to compete against a "dining hall" at a posh private university. Still, I'd say all in all, the facilities could definitely be better.

Is there a generally accepted "pecking order" of facilities when it comes to SMCs? I'd think A&M and VaTech probably have some advantages, simply because the Corps of Cadets there are part of MUCH larger institutions. But, maybe I am wrong.

Curious to see what other SMC students and families see as the best and worst aspects of their campus facilities, although we all know it's not all about having the "nicest things" and there is a lot to be gained from the "shared suffering" of dealing with less than perfect in all aspects of military life.
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You sound like many young people who think a college campus should be like a 5 star resort. Saying The Citadels facilities are 'mostly old' shows your lack of knowledge - primary classroom building is new, a second less than 5 years old; 4 of the barracks are less than 30 years old as are two other classroom buildings (Thompson and Grimsley), mess hall built in late 80s. Library, Chapel and admin building extensively renovated in the past 15 years. For its size the facilities are quite modern and more than adequate; I wish they had been as good when I attended in the 70s.
 
Here's a good pic that shows a lot of post. You have the VMI Barracks from left to right (3rd Barracks, New Barracks and Old Barracks). At the bottom left from Barracks is the Commandant's House and the Superintendent's House. Practice Fields (Soccer, Rugby, Lacrosse) to the left behind barracks. To the right of Barracks is Academic row with academic buildings and Preston Library. Across the hidden street to the right behind academic row is Cameron Hall (Basketball), Alumni Memorial Field at Foster Stadium (Football), Kilborne Hall (ROTC) and Cormack Hall (Wrestling).
VMI Post.jpg

Here is Lamore Field at Gray-Minor Stadium which got a turf upgrade before this current season.

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This is Cormack Hall
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The VMI Aquatic Center
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Corps Physical Training Facility

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conrack said:
You sound like many young people who think a college campus should be like a 5 star resort. Saying The Citadels facilities are 'mostly old' shows your lack of knowledge - primary classroom building is new, a second less than 5 years old; 4 of the barracks are less than 30 years old as are two other classroom buildings (Thompson and Grimsley), mess hall built in late 80s. Library, Chapel and admin building extensively renovated in the past 15 years. For its size the facilities are quite modern and more than adequate; I wish they had been as good when I attended in the 70s.
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I'm glad you think I'm young. I'm a proud, 51-year-old Citadel Dad! And I actually don't believe a college should be like a 5-star resort. As you note, The Citadel facilities are adequate, though in 5th Battalion adequate is probably as good as it gets.

I've also, in previous replies, noted newer facilities such as Bastin Hall and Capers Hall, both of which are very nice, not to mention the beautiful Swain Boating Center, of which I posted many pictures.

Still, many top colleges and universities DO have facilities like 5-star resorts, far superior to what you will typically find at a SMC. That doesn't make them "better" schools, nor does it mean SMCs don't have some world-class facilities of their own.

Facilities are for most students and families one legitimate factor to consider when choosing a school, among many. I personally feel The Citadel campus is beautiful, but also acknowledge the need for improvement in various areas. My point in creating this thread was to give people with knowledge of SMCs to share information. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I would love to see folks from schools we haven't yet discussed --- Norwich and UNG -- chime in as well.
 
This is actually from the VMI Museum but is accurate in terms of what a Cadet room looks like. Each cadet gets a wall locker, a desk and a rack which gets put down in the evening and has to be put back up each morning. There is a sink in each room. There is no AC, fridge or microwave. Rooms are 3-5 cadets with a few (very few, may 2?) of the larger rooms housing 7 cadets.

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Each room opens to an open courtyard. Rats on the 4th stoop, Firsts on the first stoop.

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These are the showers in 3rd barracks.

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99Gold said:
I was actually surprised by how small the Corps dorm rooms are compared to my USAFA cadet's room. When ds's roommate got sick 3 times this last year, we couldn't believe ds didn't get any of it as their beds are only a few feet away from each other. However, in the grand scheme of things, they have a pretty good setup and aren't allowed to have much in their rooms anyway so there is plenty of space. I do always feel like I'm talking to both him and his roommate when I call since we can all hear each other.

They also have a lot more freedom of movement at A&M. They aren't restricted that much. They do have a lot of mandatory formations/duties thought the week and weekend, but can leave campus (not the area) as long as nothing is going on. One of my ds's buddies' parents bought a 2nd home in College Station so they spend A LOT of time there sleeping, eating, and doing homework. It's a nice blend of military academy and large university.
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It wasn't always that way with the rooms. The entire Quad was basically redone in the last 15 years. The rooms used to be a lot bigger with no built in furniture. My ol' lady and I used to play floor hockey (he was from AK and me, NY) in our hole. It was that big. Now with everything built in (beds)-it feels claustrophobic. As for going off campus-when I was there-plenty of freedom to come and go as you needed. If you had to be off campus in uniform for some reason it had to be least Class B's or above (sometimes with time restraints you had to run off campus, literally, and back before the next class). As for the second home-the weekends are basically yours when you are an upperclassman to do as you please, but disappearing for large chunks of time is generally frowned upon. Funny story-I had graduated and found out one of my fish got married his zip year and kept it a secret. I was like how did he pull that off-he had an off campus apartment. He played Corps during the day and then disappeared after CQ to be with wifey (big no no at the time and could have got you booted out, or at least moved to the day duck company). Kept it a secret from even his buddies.
 
RBI90VMI said:
This is actually from the VMI Museum but is accurate in terms of what a Cadet room looks like. Each cadet gets a wall locker, a desk and a rack which gets put down in the evening and has to be put back up each morning. There is a sink in each room. There is no AC, fridge or microwave. Rooms are 3-5 cadets with a few (very few, may 2?) of the larger rooms housing 7 cadets.

View attachment 18557

Each room opens to an open courtyard. Rats on the 4th stoop, Firsts on the first stoop.

View attachment 18558

These are the showers in 3rd barracks.

View attachment 18559
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actual question- what is the point of having walls in the showers if there are no doors?
 
Stalker97 said:
It wasn't always that way with the rooms. The entire Quad was basically redone in the last 15 years. The rooms used to be a lot bigger with no built in furniture. My ol' lady and I used to play floor hockey (he was from AK and me, NY) in our hole. It was that big. Now with everything built in (beds)-it feels claustrophobic. As for going off campus-when I was there-plenty of freedom to come and go as you needed. If you had to be off campus in uniform for some reason it had to be least Class B's or above (sometimes with time restraints you had to run off campus, literally, and back before the next class). As for the second home-the weekends are basically yours when you are an upperclassman to do as you please, but disappearing for large chunks of time is generally frowned upon. Funny story-I had graduated and found out one of my fish got married his zip year and kept it a secret. I was like how did he pull that off-he had an off campus apartment. He played Corps during the day and then disappeared after CQ to be with wifey (big no no at the time and could have got you booted out, or at least moved to the day duck company). Kept it a secret from even his buddies.
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Crazy to keep a secret like that from his buddies!! Impressive, really!

Ds's fire team buddy did get talked to during a fire team meeting about going home too much on the weekends. You can't bond with your buddies if you keep going home. The upperclassmen loved that the fish went to their fish house on the weekends because they were together. As long as they were together, the upperclassmen were happy.

I would love to see pics of the dorms from those days. Ds and his ol' lady definitely cannot play floor hockey. They did decorate their room beautifully for Christmas! Probably ds's favorite activity (could have helped that it was also after Brass).
 
RBI90VMI said:
This is actually from the VMI Museum but is accurate in terms of what a Cadet room looks like. Each cadet gets a wall locker, a desk and a rack which gets put down in the evening and has to be put back up each morning. There is a sink in each room. There is no AC, fridge or microwave. Rooms are 3-5 cadets with a few (very few, may 2?) of the larger rooms housing 7 cadets.

View attachment 18557

Each room opens to an open courtyard. Rats on the 4th stoop, Firsts on the first stoop.

View attachment 18558

These are the showers in 3rd barracks.

View attachment 18559
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Very similar to The Citadel, except at The Citadel they do have actual bunk beds with mattresses and there is AC in the barracks. Overall, furniture, room size, showers seem comparable. Most Cadet rooms have two Cadets, and the barracks look out over a courtyard like that. Corner rooms are bigger, housing typically four Cadets.
 
pa-outdoorsman said:
Thought that!
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Gives you a place to hang your towel? Prevents your soapy/dirty water from splashing the person next to you? Gives you the illusion of privacy if you keep facing forward?

Any known reason why VMI still uses the racks that need to be put away each day? Just a tradition?
 
gck105 said:
Gives you a place to hang your towel? Prevents your soapy/dirty water from splashing the person next to you? Gives you the illusion of privacy if you keep facing forward?

Any known reason why VMI still uses the racks that need to be put away each day? Just a tradition?
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Probably partly tradition and probably partly so the Cadets can "stay hard."

I guess I am soft, because it's the lack of AC that would be a killer for me. Virginia is not quite as hot as South Carolina, but it's hard to imagine Citadel Cadets not having AC in the August heat. That said, I know all the old-school grads on this forum survived without it. I do not know what year Citadel barracks got AC, though I imagine one of the alums here does.
 
Stalker97 said:
actual question- what is the point of having walls in the showers if there are no doors?
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So, in my day it was the open shower room. 6 shower posts with 4 shower heads per post. So, basically 24 guys showering together in one big room.

I do think that some of the showers have the plastic curtains, but DS says no one bothers to close them.

You think the shower situation was bad, imagine a bathroom with 3 commodes on the left, three on the right. Short walls and no doors. We got to know each other really well, really fast.
 
Stalker97 said:
actual question- what is the point of having walls in the showers if there are no doors?
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Hell, that's luxury. When I went to military school in the early 90's there were no stalls in the head or in the showers. Communal shower with 3 nozzles on each side, and the head had the same number of toilets facing each other. More privacy = more surfaces to clean. It's not the Hilton, you won't be spending much time in there anyway. For added thrills, we were on steam heat/hot water and if somebody flushed while you were in the shower and didn't yell "flush" the disruption in cold water flow would scald you.
 
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