Who to talk to about apptitude for commissioning grade?
- Thread starter ders_dad
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Your DS should take the “chain” of command quite literally; the first link in his chain is most likely his squad leader, the 1/C who has the most direct supervisory role in his life. Since leadership will have switched to the new company leadership, he should go to his old squad leader.
I think what I used to know as the “military performance” grade has been re-named in the last 10 years or so as the “aptitude” grade. There is probably still a cap on the number of grades at each level, to prevent grade inflation. This trains the 1/C in this concept, which is similar to grade breakout in a group on officer performance evals.
The aptitude grade can cover a number of things, especially things observable in company. Here are some rhetorical questions:
Grooming, uniforms and room inspections: does he have to be reminded about hair cuts, uniform appearance, room standards, performance on room inspections
Plebe knowledge (assume he’s a Plebe?): satisfactory quiz and Plebe rate performance
Other stuff: Good attitude? Gets along with roommates? Responds well to corrective counseling? Leans forward to help classmates, is not invisible or focused on himself? If a varsity athlete or heavily involved in other activities, is he spending enough time in company area so upperclass outside his squad and platoon get to know him?
Things he can do:
- completely squared away in uniform, grooming and room
- performs his Plebe duties well, is respected and appreciated by fellow plebes
- learns from mistakes, responds to counseling, doesn’t repeat mistakes
- leans forward to help in the company - is he a calculus whiz, offers to tutor classmates or form a study group in company; volunteers to help with a company event or squad outing; asks for extra assignments to help out an upperclass; if a PT ace, offers to help struggling classmates on remedial PT to pace their run or work on sit-ups. That kind of stuff.
I saw the C grades going to plebes who were muck-ups with uniform/grooming, who had social problems getting along with roommates and not acting to resolve it, who didn’t progress in Plebe duties or knowledge, who were invisible in company, who were all about themselves and not known to help others or be counted on.
There could be any number of reasons. This is for your DS to ask for honest, specific feedback and then figure out how to respond.
It’s one big leadership lab, and figuring a way through these things is part of the lab exercises.
Thanks for the insight.
FWIW, he was ranked 2 of 40 by his company Plebes. He tutors within the company, takes watch-for others during weekends, led the company plebes’ A-N spirit mission (including getting permission thru CoC). After a long discussion tonight it sounds like he and his training officer did not see eye to eye on some things. I don’t want to insert myself in this - it is not my place. But I don’t want him to stew. I want him to seek feedback and to take it to heart. It’s a good lesson on navigating the world ahead of him.
FWIW, he was ranked 2 of 40 by his company Plebes. He tutors within the company, takes watch-for others during weekends, led the company plebes’ A-N spirit mission (including getting permission thru CoC). After a long discussion tonight it sounds like he and his training officer did not see eye to eye on some things. I don’t want to insert myself in this - it is not my place. But I don’t want him to stew. I want him to seek feedback and to take it to heart. It’s a good lesson on navigating the world ahead of him.
Ders_dad
DS was in a similar situation 1 year ago, he was amazed at some of the opportunities that were presented to him after his first Plebe Semester. It was a real turning point for him. It was definitely a heart felt decision to change his aditude toward leadership and some of the things he “thought” he was doing great at... but found out - Not So Much. He really leaned into second semester with some intrinsic attitude adjustment - and simply flourished as a result. Went on to hold a senior roll last semester (Youngster fall term) - walked away with an AMAZING semester across the board!
We were reflecting back over this break on that first semester and the decision he made to dig deep and clean up some things. He talks about that “turning point” for a number of his buddies, and reflects now on the one’s who - resisted - if you will, and the ones who looked deep into there person.
Best of luck to your DS!!!! Oh, should mention, - learned most of this after the fact - had VERY little if no input during this process -
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Much better answer then mine. . . .
Perhaps I am a bit biased as I saw mids who made huge changes that nobody ever noticed within the Midshipman COC. That is in the vein of
first/plebe summer impressions that people hold on to for a very long time. I had a Company Officer who was very alert for situations like
that.
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Old Navy BGO
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> You absolutely should not "insert yourself." One of the first things a Plebe learns is "chain of command", and that's the answer to almost every problem that arises in the military.
I get that these are different times, with greater access to communication, and levels of parental involvement varies. However, young officers have to learn how to deal with superiors that they don't "see eye to eye with." That's part of the program. Be supportive and listen to DS, but unless you have served in the military (or better, attended a Service Academy), I would caution against giving advice at all.
CAPT MJ's comments are invaluable, she's been there , done that..and has the stripes to prove it ! The only thing that I would add is that peer ranking is only part of the equation. DS may be a leader among his peers, but there is likely something rubbing the Upperclass the wrong way. (I would expect that it goes beyond just the Training Officer). If there is, I would expect a good Squad Leader would give him a frank assessment, and probably respect him for asking.
Finally, this situation is a good illustration of why some classes get scrambled after Plebe Year. For those new here, there will be thread next Spring about whether the Plebe class is going to get scrambled or shotgunned, which is essentially removing the Plebes from their Plebe year company and moving them to another company. The benefit is to give the Plebe a "fresh start" as a Youngster, without any baggage they picked up as a Plebe.
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There has been shuffling and scrambling on a back and forth/on and off basis for decades. The difference between the two is either all plebes in a company move en masse to the new company versus Each Individual being assigned randomly.
FWIW, when I was a plebe, our company First Class had come from a different company and this was their second switch so they had been in three different companies during their time as a mid. Both our Second Class and Third Class had been with the company since the start of their Plebe Academic Year as the platoons were shuffled into Ac Year companies ie: Alpha Company 1st platoon went to 17th Company and 2nd Platoon went to 24th Company. My class stayed in the same company as our plebe summer platoon number for the rest of our time at USNA.
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Excellent points are being made in this discussion.
Over the years, you may hear your mid talk about “the mid no one wants to room with.” We had a USNA sponsor daughter realize she was “that girl” in her company, especially after a few semesters of C aptitude grades. We could see it here at the house. If we had a bunch of plebes and youngsters over, we would mutually agree on what time we’d be in the car and heading back to the Yard on Saturday night. This mid would then come to me separately and ask to be taken to the Mall or elsewhere, because she didn’t want to hang out with the others and what they had chosen on Netflix. It didn’t matter that we had just organized, executed and cleared down a meal for 10 mids and finally had our feet up. There are plenty of places in our house to relax in peace and quiet with your own device if solo time was needed. Downstairs, we have two “mid bedrooms” with multiple beds and clean, comfy sheets, blankets and body pillows, plenty of power strips, where they are welcome to crawl between the sheets and nap. We also have a big mid bathroom, fully stocked with thick bath sheets, quality hair stuff, bath bombs, body wash in masculine and feminine scents, plus another family room area and large sofa with pillows and fleece throws (nicknamed “Nap Central”). On that level, we also have a master suite, the guest room and bath, which is off-limits to the mids, and kept ready for guests. That’s got the serious luxury towels and spa goodies and bedding. After they are grads and come back to visit as alums, that’s where they stay, to their delight. This mid routinely used that room and bath without asking, (I would find wet towels on the floor later) even if I or DH refreshed her on what was available to her. Her nickname should have been “one-way street.” She was completely oblivious to how she impacted others while oblivious to everything but her own wants and needs. She did what she wanted. Her squad leader had a “recalibration” meeting with her after another set of roommates had had enough. She finally started getting a clue, went to the Midshipman Development Center for counseling. She was no slouch academically, had stellar HS stats and had no other problem areas, and this is exactly the kind the kind of thing it’s hard to screen for. I privately thought she would score zero on an emotional IQ test, while my DH thought she was a walking disaster who shouldn’t be unleashed on a division of sailors.
The pressure cooker of USNA sometimes exacerbates personality traits that aren’t the best in a group setting. It isn’t the easiest thing to go from knowing exactly who you are in a beloved family, sure of your brains and competence, confident you will be just as liked and respected as you were at home, to a go-go-go environment in a shared room with shared showers and restrooms with people who are just as accomplished if not more so, than you. It is a learning experience that can shake them to their shirt stays. They have to figure out who they are, adapt and survive.
Over the years, you may hear your mid talk about “the mid no one wants to room with.” We had a USNA sponsor daughter realize she was “that girl” in her company, especially after a few semesters of C aptitude grades. We could see it here at the house. If we had a bunch of plebes and youngsters over, we would mutually agree on what time we’d be in the car and heading back to the Yard on Saturday night. This mid would then come to me separately and ask to be taken to the Mall or elsewhere, because she didn’t want to hang out with the others and what they had chosen on Netflix. It didn’t matter that we had just organized, executed and cleared down a meal for 10 mids and finally had our feet up. There are plenty of places in our house to relax in peace and quiet with your own device if solo time was needed. Downstairs, we have two “mid bedrooms” with multiple beds and clean, comfy sheets, blankets and body pillows, plenty of power strips, where they are welcome to crawl between the sheets and nap. We also have a big mid bathroom, fully stocked with thick bath sheets, quality hair stuff, bath bombs, body wash in masculine and feminine scents, plus another family room area and large sofa with pillows and fleece throws (nicknamed “Nap Central”). On that level, we also have a master suite, the guest room and bath, which is off-limits to the mids, and kept ready for guests. That’s got the serious luxury towels and spa goodies and bedding. After they are grads and come back to visit as alums, that’s where they stay, to their delight. This mid routinely used that room and bath without asking, (I would find wet towels on the floor later) even if I or DH refreshed her on what was available to her. Her nickname should have been “one-way street.” She was completely oblivious to how she impacted others while oblivious to everything but her own wants and needs. She did what she wanted. Her squad leader had a “recalibration” meeting with her after another set of roommates had had enough. She finally started getting a clue, went to the Midshipman Development Center for counseling. She was no slouch academically, had stellar HS stats and had no other problem areas, and this is exactly the kind the kind of thing it’s hard to screen for. I privately thought she would score zero on an emotional IQ test, while my DH thought she was a walking disaster who shouldn’t be unleashed on a division of sailors.
The pressure cooker of USNA sometimes exacerbates personality traits that aren’t the best in a group setting. It isn’t the easiest thing to go from knowing exactly who you are in a beloved family, sure of your brains and competence, confident you will be just as liked and respected as you were at home, to a go-go-go environment in a shared room with shared showers and restrooms with people who are just as accomplished if not more so, than you. It is a learning experience that can shake them to their shirt stays. They have to figure out who they are, adapt and survive.
The ONLY advice I want to give him (as a parent) is to be proactive and figure this out - don't guess as to what you need to do - ask. (I would never, in a million years even consider getting involved beyond that). Find out who to ask and ask. Ranking/grading without real feedback is less than worthless. Find out what you need to work on and then work on it. Learn to see how others see you. I'm confident he will get good and constructive feedback that is actionable and will allow him to lift up to his A game in this area (I understand that they only give out A's to 30% of the plebes so it could be he has done nothing "wrong" just not enough of what he needs to do to excel in this area). Asking for feedback is scary because you're asking for input into what you are not good at. I'm secretly glad that he got knocked off of his high horse a bit.
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I’m so curious how things turned out for captmj’s sponsor daughter...did she FIO?
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She is a commissioned officer.
ProudDad2022
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Wow. I hope you don't mind, but I just cut and pasted this reply and sent it to my plebe. (Actually, even if you do mind, it's too late to protest
)
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Nothing like “ok-boomering” your kid. If it gives him some insight, great. Sometimes a different voice helps sort things. It’s all downhill to spring break and Herndon from here, and two 3-day weekends to break up the Dark Ages.
[emoji16] I’m honored you thought it share-worthy.
[emoji16] I’m honored you thought it share-worthy.
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CaptMJ hit most of the great points.
I would also suggest that your DS solicit serious feedback halfway through each semester (“midterm counseling”). I can’t recall if squad leaders still do midterm counseling, but if it isn’t done, seek it out and make sure to talk about strengths and areas to improve - it is a great time to ask what can be done to improve leadership skills (I would try to avoid asking how to get a better grade, but sometimes it is hard to discuss without bringing it up). A good squad leader will take the time and make it a point to help each of their squad members improve (it shouldn’t be something that is quickly brushed over - i.e. “just sign the paper”). Also, don’t forget about the company’s senior enlisted advisor! They can be another valuable input...they have been dealing with officer and enlisted Sailors and Marines in the Fleet/FMF.
And if I recall correctly, counseling is done towards the end of the semester, but it is before rankings and the military (aptitude) grade is assigned. Not a fan of this format because this is not how it is done in the Fleet...hard breakouts (akin to the MIDN aptitude grade quotas) are known during FITREP debriefs and you can ask the reporting senior for their RSCA (lifetime ranking average) to see where one falls.
To close out, always always always ask where you can improve, even when the evaluation/counseling is positive in nature!
I would also suggest that your DS solicit serious feedback halfway through each semester (“midterm counseling”). I can’t recall if squad leaders still do midterm counseling, but if it isn’t done, seek it out and make sure to talk about strengths and areas to improve - it is a great time to ask what can be done to improve leadership skills (I would try to avoid asking how to get a better grade, but sometimes it is hard to discuss without bringing it up). A good squad leader will take the time and make it a point to help each of their squad members improve (it shouldn’t be something that is quickly brushed over - i.e. “just sign the paper”). Also, don’t forget about the company’s senior enlisted advisor! They can be another valuable input...they have been dealing with officer and enlisted Sailors and Marines in the Fleet/FMF.
And if I recall correctly, counseling is done towards the end of the semester, but it is before rankings and the military (aptitude) grade is assigned. Not a fan of this format because this is not how it is done in the Fleet...hard breakouts (akin to the MIDN aptitude grade quotas) are known during FITREP debriefs and you can ask the reporting senior for their RSCA (lifetime ranking average) to see where one falls.
To close out, always always always ask where you can improve, even when the evaluation/counseling is positive in nature!
A1Janitor
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This is fantastic ... Wish I read it a year ago. Excellent advice for all plebes to read before I day.
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Looks like there have been some changes to the aptitude for commission system to align it closer to the Fleet (https://www.usna.edu/Commandant/Dir...SHIPMEN-APTITUDE-FOR-COMMISSIONING-SYSTEM.pdf).
Would be interesting to see if the debriefs are happening before semester close-out per the instruction and if there are ranking boards held in each company (to help provide input to the company officers). What say current MIDN?
Would be interesting to see if the debriefs are happening before semester close-out per the instruction and if there are ranking boards held in each company (to help provide input to the company officers). What say current MIDN?