Whoops..... McChrystal recalled to DC

[Just_A_Mom]

From the (read it anyway!) Washington Post on Rolling Stone Magazine:

This week, the magazine that endorsed Obama plunged his administration into crisis mode, publishing sharply disparaging comments by Gen. Stanley McChrystal and his aides about the president and other White House officials. Beyond costing McChrystal his job on Wednesday, the article highlighted the grinding frustration among those prosecuting America's seemingly intractable war.
"I'm stunned," Wenner said, an hour after Obama announced the firing. "That is pretty major stuff." But he said the New York-based magazine's role should come as no surprise: "Our specialty for years has been long-form journalism, deep reporting and politics. I've had a strong passion about having a say in national policy."
Eric Bates, Rolling Stone's editor, concedes that "there's still this lingering sense that you're a music magazine and what are you doing over in Afghanistan? I call it the 'of all places' syndrome." But he said that view is changing after the biweekly magazine's stinging stories on such topics as the BP oil spill and the Wall Street bailout.
There has been grumbling that McChrystal must have assumed he was off the record with reporter Michael Hastings, a former correspondent for Newsweek and freelancer for The Washington Post, and that in one case an aide to the general was quoted while drinking.
But Bates says that "this isn't an instance where someone makes an off-the-cuff remark and the reporters put down their tape recorders. This took place over the course of weeks. They were working, they were in their war room."
Hastings said from Afghanistan that he has the remarks -- ranging from McChrystal's distaste at receiving an e-mail from envoy Richard Holbrooke to an aide's reference to Vice President Biden as "bite me" -- on tape or in detailed notes....................

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/23/AR2010062305371.html?hpid=topnews

 

[Zaphod]

Zaph, I understand your opinion about the "set backs the war" comment. I am just not willing to believe that JAM meant it the way it came across. I have stated before and you have agreed, sometimes comments over the net are misconstrued, I choose to believe that as a mother of a military child she would never want to see the war set back and endanger soldiers.

I hope you're right.

Sadly, I've been politically involved long enough to know that sometimes things mean exactly what they seem to mean.

 

[Pima]

Again, this article states that is weeks, not hours. Gates and Obama can't play "I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!".

Obama, Gates and McCrystal according to this article look like baffoons if they play the "We didn't see it coming" card. Spit on me once shame on you 60 Minutes interview, spit on me twice, shame one me!

I am frustrated at how the media is playing this out as a shocker! I would love to see a reporter ask when DOD or the WH learned about McCrystal's comments. To me that is more newsworthy.

Let me see the media dance of we knew, but didn't relieve him until the S**t hit the fan. Spin that one! How can you say that your Commander in Afghanistan gives an interview to a national magazine and you don't see the copy before it goes to press. This is a 4 star, this interview consisted of days/weeks. Can anyone say Gates did not have a clue that they were there? As SOD I would think he paid attention to this article. I just don't bite off that they got close to him without DOD approval, and I don't bite off that the DOD forgot they gave access. Pretty sure the General in charge of PA knew and briefed Gates that this was coming down.

Sorry, but this article implies they knew, yet they timed his firing.

But Bates says that "this isn't an instance where someone makes an off-the-cuff remark and the reporters put down their tape recorders. This took place over the course of weeks. They were working, they were in their war room."

Not defending McCrystal, but Gates can't say I didn't know Rolling Stone was in Afghanistan with McCrystal. BS FLAG

 

[Zaphod]

Sorry, but this article implies they knew, yet they timed his firing.

Gotta distract people from that little debacle occurring in the Gulf of Mexico...

 

[Pima]

I was watching Morning Joe on MSNBC yesterday and he basically said the same thing...he said BP has to be happy right now because they are off the news cycle.

 

[scoutpilot]

Again, this article states that is weeks, not hours. Gates and Obama can't play "I'm shocked I tell you, SHOCKED!".

Obama, Gates and McCrystal according to this article look like baffoons if they play the "We didn't see it coming" card. Spit on me once shame on you 60 Minutes interview, spit on me twice, shame one me!

I am frustrated at how the media is playing this out as a shocker! I would love to see a reporter ask when DOD or the WH learned about McCrystal's comments. To me that is more newsworthy.

Let me see the media dance of we knew, but didn't relieve him until the S**t hit the fan. Spin that one! How can you say that your Commander in Afghanistan gives an interview to a national magazine and you don't see the copy before it goes to press. This is a 4 star, this interview consisted of days/weeks. Can anyone say Gates did not have a clue that they were there? As SOD I would think he paid attention to this article. I just don't bite off that they got close to him without DOD approval, and I don't bite off that the DOD forgot they gave access. Pretty sure the General in charge of PA knew and briefed Gates that this was coming down.

Sorry, but this article implies they knew, yet they timed his firing.

Not defending McCrystal, but Gates can't say I didn't know Rolling Stone was in Afghanistan with McCrystal. BS FLAG

You're likely overestimating the level of media-embed briefing the SecDef receives. The question is, how many reporters have interviewed McChrystal over the past year? How long was this visit supposed to be? The assumptions you make about SecDef's level of knowledge about this one reporter out of thousands could be valid, assuming that the way it played out is the way it was planned, which I have gathered that it was not.

 

[Pima]

Clarification please regarding your post Scout.

You're likely overestimating the level of media-embed briefing the SecDef receives. The question is, how many reporters have interviewed McChrystal over the past year? How long was this visit supposed to be? The assumptions you make about SecDef's level of knowledge about this one reporter out of thousands could be valid, assuming that the way it played out is the way it was planned, which I have gathered that it was not.

Do you believe that Rolling Stone magazine did not have weeks of unfettered access as the report from JAM stated?

But Bates says that "this isn't an instance where someone makes an off-the-cuff remark and the reporters put down their tape recorders. This took place over the course of weeks. They were working, they were in their war room."

In this same interview an enlisted member came out and said he was interviewed for hours, but only one sentence was attributed to him, and he was not happy about it.

We are not talking media embedded like Gulf II. Maybe, I have missed it on CNN, MSNBC, and FOX, but I have yet to see embedded journalists like I did back in 03, where David Bloom died.

Maybe Gates didn't know, but then I will place the blame on Gen Casey. Casey had to know as CSA that Gen McCrystal gave this interview, didn't McCrystal report to him as CSA? Somebody at DOD approved it, and it was not McCrystal. Somebody at the Pentagon, above him, be it Casey, Mullen or Gates knew he had unfettered access by Rolling Stone, maybe even Petreaus.

EVERY OFFICER knows you do not speak to the media without approval...CRAP WIVES know it too! Sorry, but you are truly implying he had no approval from command for the interview, or that command did not know. 4 Stars report to someone, they are not CIC. He had to clear it with his boss. If he didn't he knew he would be fired immediately for granting the interview without clearance. Your defense of Gates not knowing is weak.

McCrystal was ABSOLUTELY WRONG in speaking out as an AD member, but to me it is wrong to say he blind sided the hierarchy. I see this reaction as playing the media game. I really can't accept that they didn't know 3 days ago what was written, especially if Gates's office had no comment. Do you want to honestly say they did not have advance notice or investigated when RS contacted them for an "official" comment to McCrystal's comments? SERIOUSLY, the DOD at the Pentagon is known to have meetings just to plan when they will have the next meeting! Bigger shocker, the O-8/9's call them.

 

[scoutpilot]

Clarification please regarding your post Scout.


Do you believe that Rolling Stone magazine did not have weeks of unfettered access as the report from JAM stated?

The question is not whether he had access. The question is whether that access was intended at higher levels. If higher was under the belief that his guy would spend a few days around the command group and get an interview, it likely would not raise many flags. As those of us who have been there and have had the unfortunate luck of interfacing with generals know, such events are commonplace. Reporters frequently meet with generals from the CG of a division up to UCC commanders. At any given time, we would see three or four reporters a week even down at the SOTF level. There are MANY reporters knocking around the war zones.

The point I was making is that, if the plan wasn't to give this guy access for weeks, it probably would not have registered on the SecDef's radar and may not even have been briefed to him. Your assumption that the SecDef must have known this was occurring is only likely if the actual plan was for Hastings to be snuggled up to McChrystal for weeks. If the plan was different, or thought to be different at the DoD level, then it's more likely that the SecDef wasn't concerned or even informed of the nit-noid specifics of the visit.

Did he know before two or three days ago? I'm sure they had some idea of what was up, if not full disclosure. But by then it was too late. The story was as good as written and damage control was the only option.

Sorry, but you are truly implying he had no approval from command for the interview, or that command did not know. 4 Stars report to someone, they are not CIC.

Again, I don't imply. I say.

Really? I thought 4-stars sitteth at the right hand of the Father and wander around with scepters, issuing edicts in an unchecked display of power. Thanks for clearing that up

 

[scoutpilot]

Well, isn't this interesting...seems like that "weeks of access" wasn't the plan AT ALL...

(Newser) – Rolling Stone reporter Michael Hastings got unprecedented access to Stanley McChrystal with a little help from our old buddy Eyjafjallajökull. Hastings was supposed to meet McChrystal for two days in Paris and two days in Afghanistan. But thanks to the volcano, Hastings and McChrystal were “stuck” in Paris for 10 days. Eventually they had to take a bus to Berlin, and McChrystal and his aides were drinking “the whole way,” Hastings tells NBC.

“They let loose,” he says. “I don’t blame them; they have a hard job.” The Afghanistan half of the interview likewise lasted a full month because of volcanic flight delays. Hastings is currently embedded in Afghanistan, and just got word of the stir the article is causing. He stresses that the general knew he was on the record—“Most of the time I had a tape recorder in his face”—and gave most of the inflammatory quotes in the first 24 hours.

http://www.newser.com/story/93432/booze-volcano-delays-helped-mcchrystal-reporter.html

 

[Pima]

Ok, I will roll with you on your assumption that Gens get caught with interpretation by reporters and the hierarchy has no knowledge.

How does a reporter stay in Afghanistan for weeks with an O-10 without the knowledge of the SOD?

Your argument is flawed. No reporter can spend unlimited hours with unlimited access to a 4 star without the knowledge of the Pentagon, regardless of locality. It just doesn't happen.

Bates and Hastings opinion on how it went down is moot. The question is did Gates or Casey know? If they did, then when?

Magazines typically go to copy 1-2 weeks before release, that means to me Gates knew not Tuesday morning, June 22nd, but probably the day Petreaus feinted...June 15th.

If Gates as SOD doesn't know what his O-10's are saying/thinking than shame on him, because that means he is as out of touch as Rummy was!

 

[fly boy]

Zaphod - you may not realize this but Rolling Stone has had a pretty good relationship with the Army since Absolutely American. You know - the book?
It began as an article for Rolling Stone. Additionally, many young people including soldiers who are serving and putting their lives in danger daily read this magazine.

Actually, Rolling Stone has been against the war pretty much since it started.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

Pima - you need to read the posts and links posted.
This reporter was NOT in Afghanistan with McChrystal. This all took place in Europe.

scoutpilot - blame it on the volcano!

 

[Pima]

Point?

We are all in agreement, even Gen McCrystal is in agreement he said it.

Are you implying that Gen McCrystal and his aides tried to hide to Gates or Casey what they said? Or are you implying that when they woke up the next morning they had no recollection of what they said to the reporter?

Do you not agree according to them and the WAPO rag that they approached Gates's office for a response before it went to copy?

If they did approach Gates or Casey, are you willing to accept that it occurred before Monday night?

If not, have you ever been to a grocery store, bookstore to see how distribution works. Take a realistic approach regarding distribution, we are not discussing the daily news. The volcano in Europe happened in APRIL, more than 2 months ago. 2 MONTHS...not 2 days ago!

If he hid it for 2 MONTHS from the DOD we have problems just as big as if Gate's claims he found out only 2 DAYS ago. Either way, the military should be concerned regarding communication.

Roll it, Spin it anyway you want, in the end we have a problem regarding Afghanistan and our leadership. McCrystal just showed the bad juju nobody wants to address. I believe that the reporters would have the integrity to address his alcohol infused comments the next day. If you support their reporting, you would agree with me too. If you agree they gave him the ability to clarify his previous comments, wouldn't you also agree he stood by his opinion/statements in a clear conscious? Again, if you agree that WAPO is stating Gates's office was contacted for a response, you have to admit it was not Monday, that article was put to bed weeks ago...RS is not Star Magazine, this was a big time piece. They knew that it would blow the roof and wanted to make sure their ducks were in a row.

 

[Just_A_Mom]

Actually, Rolling Stone has been against the war pretty much since it started.

So what? Does that mean they can't write about it? Lots of media is slanted. Don't shoot the messenger. Being opposed to the war does not preclude a lack of working relationship.

 

[scoutpilot]

Ok, I will roll with you on your assumption that Gens get caught with interpretation by reporters and the hierarchy has no knowledge.

How does a reporter stay in Afghanistan for weeks with an O-10 without the knowledge of the SOD?

Your argument is flawed. No reporter can spend unlimited hours with unlimited access to a 4 star without the knowledge of the Pentagon, regardless of locality. It just doesn't happen.

It doesn't, huh? And you know this how? From your extensive experience in theater? From your time on the SecDef staff? You speak with such certainty...

 

[fly boy]

So what? Does that mean they can't write about it? Lots of media is slanted. Don't shoot the messenger. Being opposed to the war does not preclude a lack of working relationship.

Working relationshiship is not necessarily the same as a good one. If Rolling Stone can make money off of it, they will. I just wouldn't call it a good relationship, and I wouldn't say that they can't write about it.

 

[fly boy]

There is no way that a General would make a mistake like that. He knew exactly what he was doing. I don't know why, but he did do it on purpose. How is he supposed to hide that from Gates, Obama, or anyone?

 

[Maximus]

No, he is not, and that's the point. It doesn't matter who he works for. What matter is who he is.

That's why I said it

 

[Maximus]

Yes Maximus - he was a Newsweek correspondent who wrote from Baghdad. His girlfriend followed him to Baghdad and she was killed in the war. Not sure what you are implying here.... please elaborate. Not sure what you mean by he's no David Lipsky. If you recall in Abolutely American - that book was not censored. He put it all in there - the good the bad and the ugly.
Is Hastings anti-war? Yes, but that doesn't affect the credibility of the facts that he collected. Don't shoot the messenger because you disagree with his politics.



Read more: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37893363/ns/today-today_people/#ixzz0rmoNWWKY

You can call Rolling Stone a 'rag' - but define rag. The article was wrote weeks ago and thoroughly fact-checked.
When a publication fact-checks a piece, they have someone on staff who is a fact checker. This person's sole job is to contact sources and read back to them the quote supplied by the writer. At this point the source can confirm or deny the remarks attributed to them. This is all done by a third party and verified.
BTW -newspapers are under tighter deadlines and typically don't fact check (unless it's an expose')

Since the story broke, I have not seen one source go on record to claim that any of it was false. Hence, I would stand by the story.
Now, assuming that all of it is true - Hastings is free to report it. Report it he should, even if it would harm the General or set back the war.

Who said the story was false? Most agree McC wanted out and the reporter was a tool.

 

[sweettooth]

OTOH, I keep thinking that maybe McCrystal, upon retiring, should be awarded that new medal for "heroic restraint" for not having *****slapped Obama during his meeting today.

This is an offensive post. Referring to someone restraining themselves from *****slapping the CIC on the Service Academy Forum is wrong.