Why test out?

[ca2midwestmom]

Re. math and validating -- is the Advanced Core Mathematics Program only for those planning on having a STEM major? It appears that everyone has to take either the Advanced Core (3 classes) or the Core Program (4 classes).

http://www.usma.edu/math/SitePages/Advanced Core Mathematics Program.aspx

It looks like the benefits of a high Summer Validation Score, ACT math and AP Calc BC scores would allow you to take an elective or major-related course early. This page says it's voluntary for selected cadets. Are cadets selected beforehand to take the Summer Validation test (based on ACT/AP scores) or does everyone take it and then some are selected for the Advanced program?

 

[hawk]

This page has the "core" math flow

This page covers the USMA AP Policy

In the past I've posted links to the Math placement policy, still looking to see if I can find it in the Math Dept.

Several questions on placement here

And buried in the Math Dept pages is a link to a detailed math "book" which explains the courses, etc.

But ultimately, the candidate needs to not worry about this stuff. Send any AP scores to USMA ahead of time. Try to be in shape and on a reasonable schedule for Beast so you won't be wiped out when it comes time for testing. Do the best on the tests. USMA will place you.

You can't really prep for the testing, game it, or get too analytical.

And if you have a class that you see the material you have already covered extensively, talk to the prof. Especially if it was AP and you made a 4 or 5 on the test. Same for previous college coursework. Not common plebe year, but can happen.

 

[hawk]

It looks like the benefits of a high Summer Validation Score, ACT math and AP Calc BC scores would allow you to take an elective or major-related course early.

Exactly. Depending on pre-requisites you can start major classes early. Or yearling stuff like mil history, etc. DS and friend's experience was that you got into fun stuff earlier. And in some cases mil art stuff earlier, which can help in the fieldwork (CFT, CLDT as a rising cow, etc)

Still will carry a full load as plebe/yuk. Get more flexibility as upperclass in your schedule, or makes it easier (not necessarily easy) to double major.

This page says it's voluntary for selected cadets. Are cadets selected beforehand to take the Summer Validation test (based on ACT/AP scores) or does everyone take it and then some are selected for the Advanced program?

DS did not apply, they tell you what tests to take, etc. Based apparently on transcript, SAT/ACT/AP scores, etc. And if you had multiple calcs in HS, it's strongly recommended to validate, etc. (per the web page)

From memory, I believe only Math and Chemistry validation tracks is "voluntary" as you just move to an advanced track. For others, DS just found out he validated when he was issued his schedule.

As an aside, there is also some streamlining which can occur from the swim test results. DS found out missed the cutoff by a second or something. Laughed that if he had known he would have tried harder, it would have had some benefit during cow drowning.

So it's worth trying hard in the testing. Some cadets validate enough to double/triple major easily. Ours just did enough to painfully double major.

 

[ca2midwestmom]

Thanks hawk! That's helpful. I think DS will be able to validate Calc/do the Adv Core and maybe Chem if they look at dual-enrollment classes. He missed the Euro/US History scores by 1.

His strength is swimming, so he will be doing a lot of running between now and Beast to prepare.

 

[BigBear]

And in some cases mil art stuff earlier, which can help in the fieldwork (CFT, CLDT as a rising cow, etc)

your son used MilArt stuff at Buckner? I must have missed the day we practiced trench warfare
-maybe you meant military science, but you can't validate MS, even with ROTC credits

As an aside, there is also some streamlining which can occur from the swim test results. DS found out missed the cutoff by a second or something. Laughed that if he had known he would have tried harder, it would have had some benefit during cow drowning.

From what I was told last semester, they no longer offer the accelerated survival swimming course (grad week instead of a round during the academic year).

 

[hawk]

your son used MilArt stuff at Buckner? I must have missed the day we practiced trench warfare

Ahh, You missed out!! End up with a lanewalker named Napoleon and do lot's of "strategy of annihilation", "central position strategy", "The war must feed the war", and all that!

Next you'll tell us that PL300/350 does not give cadets secret powers to lead!!!

Knew you could not validate out of MS stuff. But validation of other coursework does let you pull some of your yuk/cow mandatory courses up as well as major courses which are not sequential. Point being: It's worth trying to validate

I'm fuzzy, but from memory I recall that by validating out of the plebe history (HI100's?), they pull forward the HI300's (mil art?) even as a plebe.

But the general theme is that most commonly your core (required) stuff pulls forward as it does not have the sequential pre-reqs that most major classes do. So yes, a cadet can end up as a plebe in a mil-art class full of firsties. (apparently there are pros and cons to that as well!)

Likewise, don't know all the details, but it is possible to do CLDT early as a rising cow. Majority do as firsties as I understand it.

From what I was told last semester, they no longer offer the accelerated survival swimming course (grad week instead of a round during the academic year).

I wondered how that would have worked, did they just do the testing part?
What would they have taken before/after combatives? Another DPE? Moot point now, I guess.

 

[BigBear]

-For History, you can either go into MilArt (all plebe classes though), or AP/Dirt with yuks (this is what I did)
-Definitely agree that validating is the way to go. Only thing I might caution against is Jedi Math if you aren't a big fan of math
-To the best of my knowledge, CLDT is roughly 70/30 Firsties/Cows
-Between Yuk and Cow year, there are 8 "rounds" or half semesters for 4 classes (Survival Swim, Combatives, PE 215, Lifetime Sport). DPE is shuffling the course structure/schedule, so I don't know what it will look like for 2018