Will Civil Air Patrol look good on my application?

[frenzymando]

I'm really confused about how this Boys state thing works but I'm going to look into it this weekend. I think I read somewhere each school can only send 1 or 2 people? If that is the case I have almost no chance because I go to an elite high school.

If your school is already sponsoring (ie paying for) other students to attend Boy's State, you can pay yourself OR check with your local American Legion group. A lot of groups are happy to sponsor interested students, and depending on your state, some may be lacking in interest/participation.

I can simply pay to go? Why is it such a high honor then?

 

[AcademyHopefulOne]

FM, going to ROTC should be about serving your country, not going to school for free as too many think. If you're just trying to pad your résumé, you're making the wrong choice.

What are your motives for attending USMA?

If you have performed poorly in your four years of high school, it's no one else's fault.

 

[ca2midwestmom]

I can simply pay to go? Why is it such a high honor then?

I went back and looked at the website for Kansas Boys State. The total fee per participant is $300, with each delegate paying $40, and the sponsor (ie your high school, American Legion post, etc) picking up the rest of the cost. This is probably why schools only send 1-2 participants, and why schools are selective in who attends. But it also clearly states on the KS website that "virtually anyone, including parents, can sponsor a Boys Stater this summer. In addition to families, delegates are sponsored by American Legion Posts, civic organizations, businesses, clubs and interested individuals." I doubt this is exclusive to Kansas. Check out your own state's Boys State website and see what it says.

 

[frenzymando]

FM, going to ROTC should be about serving your country, not going to school for free as too many think. If you're just trying to pad your résumé, you're making the wrong choice.

What are your motives for attending USMA?

If you have performed poorly in your four years of high school, it's no one else's fault.

I haven't performed poorly? I have gotten 2 B's through 5 semesters.... I never blamed my class rank on anyone else, I simply said I can't raise my class rank very much because at this point I simply can't at this point, what am I supposed to say? Why are you trying to like attack me did I say something offensive?

I want to go to the Academy because I want to be a career officer, I've always wanted to be in the military. I'm not trying to get into the Academy or do ROTC for monetary purposes, where did you get that idea?

What's wrong with trying to "pad" my resume? I studied for the PSAT so I could get national merit to "pad" my resume, is there something wrong with that? I study to get a higher GPA to "pad" my resume, is there something wrong with that? Should I not study for the ACT to get a better score cause that's "padding"?

 

[MemberLG]

There actually is another person at my school that I know very well that is aspiring to make it into West Point as well as the Air Force Academy. I think his rank is around 30ish and his test scores are better than mine. He also has a higher leadership position than me in JROTC. However he has never played a sport in high school so I do have an edge on him there. I am also in better overall physical shape than him if that matters. Can there only be one nomination in each district? That seems like a sort of flawed system to me....

First, in the situation you describe, for West Point , I will give the advantage to the other kid. West Point candidate evaluation is 60% academic, and 30% leadership and, 10% physical. No extra credit. So question becomes can you overcome other kid's academic advantage with your EC and physical. I don't know and if I had to guess probably not. 30% leadership is dividied in EC, sports, and school official evaluation. So if the kid plays some sort of club sports or martial arts, he won't be disadvantaged too much. 10% phsyical is CFA score. From what I seen, practcing CFA is better than being more physically fit but not practiced. It is what is as if don't try, you don't know what's going to happen. Any improvement in your class rank and test scores will improve your competitivenss.

Second, there are 10 nomination per vancacy for district or category. So your Congressman will nominate up to 10 candidates for one appointment. So if your Congressman is filling one vacancy and nominates 10 kids. The best qualified kid will get the appointment. Othe rr 9 nominted kids will be placed in the National Waiting List and compete nationally for NWL list appointments. By law, I thin top 150 kids in the National Waiting List are appointed, after that West Point pick and chose among qualified candidates to fill the remaing slots. So there are some Congressional distirct that sends all 10 nominated candidates to West Point, but only one will be charge against the Congressman.

As for class rank, it honestly isn't going to go up very much if at all. My school works on an 18 work course system, so each class is 1 semester, and we take 4 classes a semester. I got all A's last semester with 2 AP classes(That was a 4.0 uw/5.0 weighted) and my rank went down two spots(by down I mean I went from 64->66 and it got worse).

If you don't try, you will never know. I guess you could get A+.

 

[frenzymando]

There actually is another person at my school that I know very well that is aspiring to make it into West Point as well as the Air Force Academy. I think his rank is around 30ish and his test scores are better than mine. He also has a higher leadership position than me in JROTC. However he has never played a sport in high school so I do have an edge on him there. I am also in better overall physical shape than him if that matters. Can there only be one nomination in each district? That seems like a sort of flawed system to me....

First, in the situation you describe, for West Point , I will give the advantage to the other kid. West Point candidate evaluation is 60% academic, and 30% leadership and, 10% physical. No extra credit. So question becomes can you overcome other kid's academic advantage with your EC and physical. I don't know and if I had to guess probably not. 30% leadership is dividied in EC, sports, and school official evaluation. So if the kid plays some sort of club sports or martial arts, he won't be disadvantaged too much. 10% phsyical is CFA score. From what I seen, practcing CFA is better than being more physically fit but not practiced. It is what is as if don't try, you don't know what's going to happen. Any improvement in your class rank and test scores will improve your competitivenss.

Second, there are 10 nomination per vancacy for district or category. So your Congressman will nominate up to 10 candidates for one appointment. So if your Congressman is filling one vacancy and nominates 10 kids. The best qualified kid will get the appointment. Othe rr 9 nominted kids will be placed in the National Waiting List and compete nationally for NWL list appointments. By law, I thin top 150 kids in the National Waiting List are appointed, after that West Point pick and chose among qualified candidates to fill the remaing slots. So there are some Congressional distirct that sends all 10 nominated candidates to West Point, but only one will be charge against the Congressman.

As for class rank, it honestly isn't going to go up very much if at all. My school works on an 18 work course system, so each class is 1 semester, and we take 4 classes a semester. I got all A's last semester with 2 AP classes(That was a 4.0 uw/5.0 weighted) and my rank went down two spots(by down I mean I went from 64->66 and it got worse).

If you don't try, you will never know. I guess you could get A+.

A and A+ are the same for gpa and class rank purposes. The other dude does martial arts I think, no club sports, and I think you are right, he has an edge on me as of now.

I don't really get what you were saying about nominations and, can both of us get nominated and admitted or nah?

 

[845something]

Frenzy- if I give you a shovel, will you keep digging to get out of the hole you're in?

You are new to this, so you probably don't understand some of the nuances of the application, the SAs, and this forum. Know who is giving you advice and why.
1) look at the number of messages/join date. There are many individuals that are on here that have been advising students on admissions for quite some time and are also admissions reps. There are parents that have a different perspective. Sometimes cadets share their experience. And finally there are often current candidates that are often quick to tell it as they are going through the process. If you know anything about statistics, you should be able to pick out who's perspective/advice will be the most beneficial.
2) at the end of the day, West Point (and really every college) will boil your resume/CV down to a number. We call it the Whole Candidate Score (WCS). The algorithm that generates that score is designed to do a number of things - like reward areas that contribute to what the academy sees as beneficial to making a successful cadet, while also minimalizing the affect of individuals trying to game the system. So a high score on the ACT/SAT is good, but doesn't overcome poor performance in high school. Going to a competitive high school that sends many to college (and therefore is harder to have a high class rank) needs an adjustment to put its candidates on a level playing field versus that small/regular school where being at the top isn't as difficult. Leadership is a combination of the amount and the level that you reach. So yes, you could have done football for 3 or 4 years to pad your resume, but earning varsity letters and potentially being a team captain shows a level of commitment versus joining scouts or CAP part way through your junior year. That shows on the application in the amount of reward that you get for each activity. Higher leadership positions often take years to reach and are worth more towards your WCS. Student body president, NHS president, ROTC Bn Cdr, football team captain from the quick glance should be what you are striving to achieve over the next year to put yourself in the best position for admission, not adding low level membership activities like CAP and scouts (that you could have gotten similar leadership credit for if you started early enough).
3) understand the game. If you don't know the rules, you can't compete. You are competing for nominations, and from those nominations, appointments. Yes, more than one individual from a district can and usually does get in, especially if it is a competitive district that produces national caliber candidates. But also realize that means that the nomination to one service academy is often more difficult to receive, let alone multiple SAs. You need to know why you want to go to a particular SA. When posters here talk about the way you talk/respond with excuses, it might be a good indication that you might need to evaluate how well you'll fit in the Army. That attitude will come across in the nomination interview and could affect your chances, especially in a competitive district.
4) as stated, ROTC is not a back up to PAY for college, it is an alternative PATH to commissioning. If becoming an officer is not your mid-term goal, then you need to re-evaluate your interest in the service academies. I, for one, don't have time for LTs and CPTs who are only looking forward to some career outside of the military at the detriment of the mission and their soldiers. A quick way to determine that is whether or not an individual has expressed interest in ROTC. By the way, the ROTC application normally opens in February.

 

[Dixieland]

A quick way to determine that is whether or not an individual has expressed interest in ROTC. By the way, the ROTC application normally opens in February.

That was one of the questions my grad was asked at his MOC interviews: "If you don't get into West Point, what will you do?" He told them he had already applied for an ROTC scholarship and would go into the Army that way. His ultimate goal was to serve as an Army officer, regardless of how he got there.

Frenzy, check the forum section that tells when Admissions reps will be in your area or if one of your MOCs is holding a Service Academy Day. Be sure to attend and ask lots of questions. We found the presentations to be very helpful.

 

[buff81]

frenzymando-
I am a FFR in Alabama. I might be able to tell you how competitive your district is for a nomination and how competitive your high school is.
Message me ('start a conversation') and tell me what Congressional district you are in. If you dont know- tell me your high school.
A competitive high school could get you a bump in class rank.

 

[Pima]

You should know right now if you are

I am going to say one thing, and posters may flame me for it, BUT here goes!

SAs have a filter like Admission boards for a traditional college...they can see through padding a resume and impo, this is padding. This is the OH CRAP moment....sorry, but I am going to be brutally honest.

As far as the 66 out of 426, I will say they ask for the school profile. If 30% go IVY than 66 isn't horrible, of 3% go, Ivy than yes you have an issue.
~ There are over 2000 hs in this nation.

FYI...you stated in your post you want AF. FWIW, if you apply for an AFROTC scholarship as plan B. They do not look at anything, e. Ept your SAT/ACT BEST SITTING after your junior year. You are spinning wheels!

Lol in all honesty I am simply trying to pad my resume, but I don't really see how they could see through that. If a dude has 3 Varsity letters in football but only played for resume purposes, how can the colleges see that the dude was padding(that's not why I played football it's just an example)?

As for how good my school is, would they only look at the colleges the students from my school are going to or would they also look at our ACT scores, SAT scores, number of national merit finalists, etc? Being from Alabama, very few of my peers aspire to get into an Ivy league school to my knowledge. Was that simply an example?

As for ROTC scholarships, I probably won't need one because I will most likely be a national merit finalist so many schools will offer me full ride.

PS: I'm split between air force and army right now.

Love the flat out honest answer....I am simply trying to pad my resume.

 

[frenzymando]

Frenzy- if I give you a shovel, will you keep digging to get out of the hole you're in?

You are new to this, so you probably don't understand some of the nuances of the application, the SAs, and this forum. Know who is giving you advice and why.
1) look at the number of messages/join date. There are many individuals that are on here that have been advising students on admissions for quite some time and are also admissions reps. There are parents that have a different perspective. Sometimes cadets share their experience. And finally there are often current candidates that are often quick to tell it as they are going through the process. If you know anything about statistics, you should be able to pick out who's perspective/advice will be the most beneficial.
2) at the end of the day, West Point (and really every college) will boil your resume/CV down to a number. We call it the Whole Candidate Score (WCS). The algorithm that generates that score is designed to do a number of things - like reward areas that contribute to what the academy sees as beneficial to making a successful cadet, while also minimalizing the affect of individuals trying to game the system. So a high score on the ACT/SAT is good, but doesn't overcome poor performance in high school. Going to a competitive high school that sends many to college (and therefore is harder to have a high class rank) needs an adjustment to put its candidates on a level playing field versus that small/regular school where being at the top isn't as difficult. Leadership is a combination of the amount and the level that you reach. So yes, you could have done football for 3 or 4 years to pad your resume, but earning varsity letters and potentially being a team captain shows a level of commitment versus joining scouts or CAP part way through your junior year. That shows on the application in the amount of reward that you get for each activity. Higher leadership positions often take years to reach and are worth more towards your WCS. Student body president, NHS president, ROTC Bn Cdr, football team captain from the quick glance should be what you are striving to achieve over the next year to put yourself in the best position for admission, not adding low level membership activities like CAP and scouts (that you could have gotten similar leadership credit for if you started early enough).
3) understand the game. If you don't know the rules, you can't compete. You are competing for nominations, and from those nominations, appointments. Yes, more than one individual from a district can and usually does get in, especially if it is a competitive district that produces national caliber candidates. But also realize that means that the nomination to one service academy is often more difficult to receive, let alone multiple SAs. You need to know why you want to go to a particular SA. When posters here talk about the way you talk/respond with excuses, it might be a good indication that you might need to evaluate how well you'll fit in the Army. That attitude will come across in the nomination interview and could affect your chances, especially in a competitive district.
4) as stated, ROTC is not a back up to PAY for college, it is an alternative PATH to commissioning. If becoming an officer is not your mid-term goal, then you need to re-evaluate your interest in the service academies. I, for one, don't have time for LTs and CPTs who are only looking forward to some career outside of the military at the detriment of the mission and their soldiers. A quick way to determine that is whether or not an individual has expressed interest in ROTC. By the way, the ROTC application normally opens in February.

Please show me where I made an excuse, because I don't remember making one. I simply stated that I can't accomplish certain things. It takes 18 months to earn an award, and I don't have 18 months. So I stated that I wouldn't be able to earn the award. What am I supposed to say instead?

Thank you for the rest of the information, it was very useful. I don't understand what hole you think I am digging for myself though.

I am not trying to use the military as a way to pay for college, I genuinely wish to become an officer. I stated this before. Idk if I stated this, but I will join ROTC if I don't get into an academy whether they give me a scholarship or not.

 

[frenzymando]

You should know right now if you are

I am going to say one thing, and posters may flame me for it, BUT here goes!

SAs have a filter like Admission boards for a traditional college...they can see through padding a resume and impo, this is padding. This is the OH CRAP moment....sorry, but I am going to be brutally honest.

As far as the 66 out of 426, I will say they ask for the school profile. If 30% go IVY than 66 isn't horrible, of 3% go, Ivy than yes you have an issue.
~ There are over 2000 hs in this nation.

FYI...you stated in your post you want AF. FWIW, if you apply for an AFROTC scholarship as plan B. They do not look at anything, e. Ept your SAT/ACT BEST SITTING after your junior year. You are spinning wheels!

Lol in all honesty I am simply trying to pad my resume, but I don't really see how they could see through that. If a dude has 3 Varsity letters in football but only played for resume purposes, how can the colleges see that the dude was padding(that's not why I played football it's just an example)?

As for how good my school is, would they only look at the colleges the students from my school are going to or would they also look at our ACT scores, SAT scores, number of national merit finalists, etc? Being from Alabama, very few of my peers aspire to get into an Ivy league school to my knowledge. Was that simply an example?

As for ROTC scholarships, I probably won't need one because I will most likely be a national merit finalist so many schools will offer me full ride.

PS: I'm split between air force and army right now.

Love the flat out honest answer....I am simply trying to pad my resume.

I want to get into a service academy and I am willing do whatever it takes to get in(excluding things like cheating and things of that nature). Not going to sugarcoat anything. People study for the SAT to get a higher score to pad their resume, is something wrong with this?

 

[frenzymando]

I can simply pay to go? Why is it such a high honor then?

I went back and looked at the website for Kansas Boys State. The total fee per participant is $300, with each delegate paying $40, and the sponsor (ie your high school, American Legion post, etc) picking up the rest of the cost. This is probably why schools only send 1-2 participants, and why schools are selective in who attends. But it also clearly states on the KS website that "virtually anyone, including parents, can sponsor a Boys Stater this summer. In addition to families, delegates are sponsored by American Legion Posts, civic organizations, businesses, clubs and interested individuals." I doubt this is exclusive to Kansas. Check out your own state's Boys State website and see what it says.

Thank you! I never knew this, I didn't see that on the Alabama site.

 

[Larry321]

I want to get into a service academy and I am willing do whatever it takes to get in(excluding things like cheating and things of that nature). Not going to sugarcoat anything. People study for the SAT to get a higher score to pad their resume, is something wrong with this?

Bad logic.

Candidates should do their best in every aspect regardless if they get a cookie for doing it. Studying for the ACT/SAT and practicing the CFA to get the best score shows commitment to keep trying.

Joining scouts for a month just to check a box on a sheet is BS.

Now that's sugar free.

 

[frenzymando]

I want to get into a service academy and I am willing do whatever it takes to get in(excluding things like cheating and things of that nature). Not going to sugarcoat anything. People study for the SAT to get a higher score to pad their resume, is something wrong with this?

Bad logic.

Candidates should do their best in every aspect regardless if they get a cookie for doing it. Studying for the ACT/SAT and practicing the CFA to get the best score shows commitment to keep trying.

Joining scouts for a month just to check a box on a sheet is BS.

Now that's sugar free.

I don't see any difference, I study for the SAT when I honestly don't give one (explicative) about 99% of the stuff I am studying. I don't care about what the word draconian means because it has no useful application outside of the SAT, but I study what it means because it will improve my chances of getting a high score on the SAT. I study just so I can put a higher number in a box on an application. If the SAT didn't matter and was completely meaningless test, would most cadets study for it? No. Why? Because there wouldn't be a "cookie" for doing so.

So I guess doing something you don't care about (studying for the SAT) just so you can put a higher number in a box is ok, but doing something you don't care about (scouts) just so you can check a box is a big no-no.

I don't plan on joining scouts for a month, I will do it till graduation if I do end up joining.

 

[frenzymando]

A quick way to determine that is whether or not an individual has expressed interest in ROTC. By the way, the ROTC application normally opens in February.

That was one of the questions my grad was asked at his MOC interviews: "If you don't get into West Point, what will you do?" He told them he had already applied for an ROTC scholarship and would go into the Army that way. His ultimate goal was to serve as an Army officer, regardless of how he got there.

Frenzy, check the forum section that tells when Admissions reps will be in your area or if one of your MOCs is holding a Service Academy Day. Be sure to attend and ask lots of questions. We found the presentations to be very helpful.

Alright I will thanks for the tip. Where is this forum section though, would you mind sending me a link to it?

 

[Pima]

I want to get into a service academy and I am willing do whatever it takes to get in(excluding things like cheating and things of that nature). Not going to sugarcoat anything. People study for the SAT to get a higher score to pad their resume, is something wrong with this?

Bad logic.

Candidates should do their best in every aspect regardless if they get a cookie for doing it. Studying for the ACT/SAT and practicing the CFA to get the best score shows commitment to keep trying.

Joining scouts for a month just to check a box on a sheet is BS.

Now that's sugar free.

I don't see any difference, I study for the SAT when I honestly don't give one (explicative) about 99% of the stuff I am studying. I don't care about what the word draconian means because it has no useful application outside of the SAT, but I study what it means because it will improve my chances of getting a high score on the SAT. I study just so I can put a higher number in a box on an application. If the SAT didn't matter and was completely meaningless test, would most cadets study for it? No. Why? Because there wouldn't be a "cookie" for doing so.

So I guess doing something you don't care about (studying for the SAT) just so you can put a higher number in a box is ok, but doing something you don't care about (scouts) just so you can check a box is a big no-no.

I don't plan on joining scouts for a month, I will do it till graduation if I do end up joining.

You are 17 and joining Scouts now? Why did you not join in 7,8, 9, or 10th grade?

Not trying to antagonize, just trying to get your point of view

 

[frenzymando]

I want to get into a service academy and I am willing do whatever it takes to get in(excluding things like cheating and things of that nature). Not going to sugarcoat anything. People study for the SAT to get a higher score to pad their resume, is something wrong with this?

Bad logic.

Candidates should do their best in every aspect regardless if they get a cookie for doing it. Studying for the ACT/SAT and practicing the CFA to get the best score shows commitment to keep trying.

Joining scouts for a month just to check a box on a sheet is BS.

Now that's sugar free.

I don't see any difference, I study for the SAT when I honestly don't give one (explicative) about 99% of the stuff I am studying. I don't care about what the word draconian means because it has no useful application outside of the SAT, but I study what it means because it will improve my chances of getting a high score on the SAT. I study just so I can put a higher number in a box on an application. If the SAT didn't matter and was completely meaningless test, would most cadets study for it? No. Why? Because there wouldn't be a "cookie" for doing so.

So I guess doing something you don't care about (studying for the SAT) just so you can put a higher number in a box is ok, but doing something you don't care about (scouts) just so you can check a box is a big no-no.

I don't plan on joining scouts for a month, I will do it till graduation if I do end up joining.

You are 17 and joining Scouts now? Why did you not join in 7,8, 9, or 10th grade?

Not trying to antagonize, just trying to get your point of view

I'm 16, and I am joining now because I didn't realize that it would benefit me to join when I was younger. I'm not going to join for just a month or something like that because that would be extremely disrespectful to the program, and I would agree, that would be "BS". However, I don't think that joining the program for a year and some change qualifies as "BS". I now believe that it will benefit me to join so I probably will, and I will try my best to contribute to the program in the short time I am there, if I do end up joining. That being said, as of right now, I don't have motive for joining Boy Scouts except for the sole purpose of being able to put it on my resume to help me get into a service academy. That may change, but as of now that is the only reason I will join. I'm doing something that I don't want to do because I believe it will benefit me, which I think is quite similar to how I studied for the PSAT even though I didn't want to because I knew it would benefit me.

 

[Pima]

Did you realize what you just stated?

I don't have motive for joining Boy Scouts except for the sole purpose of being able to put it pon my resume...

I suggest you go on the nomination forums and spend time reviewing what types of questions are asked during the interview.
~ Are you really going to answer the question of joining BSA at 16 was to fill a square, while your peers will have no problem answering because they are Eagle Scouts or close to it.

No nomination = no appointment.

IOWS, leave the SAs and the WCS out of it for a minute. You need to compete for a nomination first, and some states the competition for a nomination is so stiff that the MOCs will talk and share the wealth regarding nominations. It is not uncommon for some to have 250, 350+ applying for 10 nominations.
~ Do you now see why posters are saying they will see through the padding.

 

[frenzymando]

Did you realize what you just stated?

I don't have motive for joining Boy Scouts except for the sole purpose of being able to put it pon my resume...

I suggest you go on the nomination forums and spend time reviewing what types of questions are asked during the interview.
~ Are you really going to answer the question of joining BSA at 16 was to fill a square, while your peers will have no problem answering because they are Eagle Scouts or close to it.

No nomination = no appointment.

IOWS, leave the SAs and the WCS out of it for a minute. You need to compete for a nomination first, and some states the competition for a nomination is so stiff that the MOCs will talk and share the wealth regarding nominations. It is not uncommon for some to have 250, 350+ applying for 10 nominations.
~ Do you now see why posters are saying they will see through the padding.

Are you trying to say being in Boy Scouts for only a year will be detrimental to my application because it will appear as if I am padding my resume? One would think one year of Boy Scouts would be better than 0 years of Boy Scouts.

Obviously at the interview I'm not going to tell the dude that I joined Boy Scouts so I could put it on my resume, so I don't see how that would be a huge issue.
Also, I apologize for my ignorance, but what are "IOWS [...] SAs and [...] WCS"?