Will underage drinking come back to bite me?

The question I am wondering about is if this will impact later on if not reported. Most AF officers will be required to obtain a TS clearance. TS clearances take 6-9 months, it is that in depth. They will send an agent to the homes of your references and interview them for about 30-45 minutes, this issue would most likely come up. When we were interviewed one of the questions is does the person have an alcohol/drug issue? Your references may say "well, he was once hospitalized for a BAC 0.19 when he was underage, but he learned his lesson since that time.

They will do a background search, and although I am sure the hospital billed your folks, but your name will be on it too. This may mean questioning you for clarification.

Thus, he is eventually going to have admit this issue.

I don't know if TS results are like DoDMERB Q's. You are cleared and that is it, or if it is a report on every issue. If it is the latter AFROTCHQ may have an issue with the result, and it now becomes a commissioning issue.

Do I think you won't get a TS over this? No, but I am not sure you can hide it forever either.

Personally, I am betting already the det. knows. I am sure it is all over your FB, and if you are friends with the det. they probably can see the remarks on your page. Plus, it is funny how kids think we don't hear things, as if we are just wallpaper. Your friends are going to talk, and it will become fodder in the det., eventually when it is now at the point of I heard from someone who heard from someone else that you got your stomach pumped and had a 0.29 BAC found in your vomit and rushed to the hospital via the ambulance the cadets are usually talking very freely/openly and not whispering. Worse yet the cadre is now hearing something that didn't actually happen at all because it became a telephone game story.

Also as others have stated come next week or so when a cadet doesn't get an SFT slot, which means they will be dis-enrolled, don't assume their pain and anger is not going to be lashed out to the CoC as they have their exit sit down. I.E. I can't get it sir, I did everything right, and the AF would rather keep a cadet jones that drank underage to the point he had a 0.19 BAC and was hospitalized, but I am the one that is being kicked out!

Don't assume emotions won't get the best of them. They have lost everything and there you sit still in and on scholarship to boot!

I am not saying to report it, I am not saying don't. This is your decision because by regs it looks like it is your decision since there is no school action. I am just saying don't assume it will be hidden forever, there are too many ways which I just illustrated that it can come out.
 
aglages said:
AFROTC Detachment Commanders during the last two years? I find that hard to believe.
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Your question did not have AFROTC in it. So my answer still stands.

But since you always like to play difficult, there is an AFROTC unit at my school as well. Their previous commander who left last year swept an incident under the rug. So a yes answer to that question as well.
 
Agagles,

I agree. Remember -Bull- is AROTC, not AFROTC. I recall a thread a yr or so ago about marijuana usage...how many times(may have been on another AF forum) It was interesting to see that AFROTC is 3 times and you are out. The AF takes more than 3 times as it is no longer experimental. Try it once, try it again, but seriously by the 3rd time than you aren't experimenting, you are now DQd.

This ties back to the OP. the AFROTC cadet that contracted told them 2X. He later on going for his TS clearance fessed up to more than that, but not habitual and not used while in AFROTC. He was disenrolled. It was the lie that got him in trouble.

For me what was frightening is the level. Here is a link. If I read this correctly for a 180 lb male, you are talking 9 drinks in a very limited time period.

http://www.brad21.org/bac_charts.html

He is darn lucky his school is forgiving. I recall our DS calling me at 8 a.m. one day as a contracted C100. A kid on his floor was so drunk and they tried to take care of them, but vascillated on calling 911. They did not call. However, that student was booted out of the dorms because eventually the RA found out. ( about a day later). The student fessed up. All of them, including our DS was asked to give a report of what occurred. DS worried that although he did not drink with this kid, just cleaned up his vomit, it would get back to the det. Should he tell the det?

We told him not to worry, there was no reason to inform the det. If they ask, than tell them, but you weren't the one drunk. You weren't even with him...you just were there hearing him vomit and the hallways in the middle of the night.

My point is, no offense OP, but you are contracted. You know it is illegal to drink underage, you are on scholarship,there are cadets like my DS, that worried just being there nailed him too because of association.

I don't expect college kids to be angels, I darn well know my kids tied one on before they turned 21, yet they always had a wingman/woman that made sure to keep them safe. Being taken to the hospital is not having your back...I guess it is in a way because they took you to the hospital.

I know you are living in fear right now. I am hoping for the best for you, but most importantly I can't say it enough is this the crowd you want to hang with? People that keep offering you drinks...look at that chart. Maybe it was pledging, maybe it was beer pong, maybe it was bizz buzz, or pigs, or march of dimes (notice I know all the games...was a college kid once), but where was that friend who grabbed you and said ENOUGH, LET"S GO!

Now that your heart is in the pit of your stomach, make a decision.Tell, don't tell, but whatever you decide be prepared for any repercussion from your decision.

Nobody has given their honest answer of what they would say to their child, so I will.

If my posts haven't hinted at my answer here it is....tell the cadre. If means begging mercy, than beg mercy. However, I would think if the school gives a pass, they too will give it.

Will you be under their glaring eye from now on? Heck yes! Do you deserve to be under their glaring eye for breaking a law? Heck yes!

Do you deserve to be dis-enrolled? NO. You came clean, and that speaks volumes of your character. You were just an avg 18/19 yo being stupid! Your CoC is probably an O5/6 with a kid your exact same age. They get it. Not happy, but get it.

That is still better than worrying they heard the gossip floating around in the det lounge or saw remarks on FB. It is better than worrying they will find out right after you were selected for SFT, or UPT. It is better than worrying if this will show up during your TS clearance for UPT because a reference you submitted acknowledged it, but you didn't on your 60 page questionnaire.

This is really a soul searching moment regarding your character. You know it was illegal. I am betting the school probably made you sign a 0 tolerance policy to live in the dorms. It was told to you every and each way from Sunday...don't!

OBTW when it comes for that TS clearance, choose wisely young man. If they know of it, you are asking them to lie for you to a government agent when asked do you know of any alcohol issues.

I would be proud of my child if they were dis-enrolled because they fesed up .:eek: Simple: they made a stupid mistake, but they were honorable and fessed up, ready to take the hit. That is a sign of character. That is something to be proud of more than a 3.8 cgpa. Book smart is one thing. Anyone can learn academics. Character and honor can't be taught! You have it or you don't.

4 yrs of AFROTC as a scholarship Mom. 21 yrs as an ADAF fliers wife, I would hate to have that weight on their shoulders.

You think waiting for a scholarship was hard...just wait. As you probably know SFT is blind regarding that aspect...no SFT...dis-enrollment. No SFT...no rated board. Rated...3 day long physical at Wright Pat, and TS clearance...fail and ??? if they will commission.

Just me, but I would say to my DS take the hit now. You were a kid, you were stupid, acknowledge it instead of 2-3 more yrs of worry.
 
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+1 to Pima. Especially about being proud of a kid who fessed up and came clean regardless of the consequences. I know it's not easy but having some experience with it myself, you don't want to be looking over your shoulder the rest of your life wondering when this might catch up to you. It might never catch up, but it will always be in the back of your head. You don't need to carry that weight around, regardless of the consequences.
 
anonymous said:
I am currently a contracted AFROTC cadet
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aglages said:
Thanks Kinnem! I was wondering specifically about AFROTC seeing they seem to have been aggressively tackling the RIF issues the longest.
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-Bull- said:
Your question did not have AFROTC in it.

But since you always like to play difficult...
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Reading comprehension is an important skill. The OP was clearly asking about AFROTC and I clarified my question in post #16. Now WHO is trying to be difficult? :rolleyes:
BTW - Does AROTC have Detachment Commanders? I thought they were Battalion Commanders. Of course I could be mistaken.
 
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Pima said:
Do you deserve to be dis-enrolled? NO.
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The question I had was what are the chances (odds) that a cadet would even be given a second chance? A couple of years ago the odds were at least reasonable that a cadet MIGHT get a second chance, I'm just not sure whether that is currently the case.
Pima said:
I would be proud of my child if they were dis-enrolled because they fesed up
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Agree 100%! My question was more of an evaluation of whether it was even possible to get a second chance within the new AFROTC environment.
 
I think that for commanders to decide if they're going to keep someone they have to look at how good of a cadet they are in the first place and also take into account their major. Someone that is an EE major and ranked really high will probably have a better chance of staying in the program than someone with a useless non-tech major that is ranked bottom of their class.
 
DeskJockey said:
This situation is covered in considerable detail in AFROTC Instruction 36-2011, which is the general manual of operations for AFROTC detachments. You can access it here: http://www.umass.edu/afrotc/AFROTCI36-2011_IC1.pdf

Under 4.5.4 (page 103) you have an obligation to self-report any incident causing adverse involvement or contact with civil, military, or school authorities. Inasmuch as you had no contact with law enforcement, and your school has taken no disciplinary action, you will have to decide if this is an incident that you are required to self-report. I think that you need to carefully read and reflect upon this instruction before you decide what to do. If you do report it, you are specifically required to disclose the results of your blood alcohol test. (4.5.5.1).

You also need to look at section 4.6 of the instruction (starting on page 109). The detachment commander is granted the authority to waive one incident of unlawful consumption or minor-in-possession of alcohol. However, the incident CANNOT BE WAIVED if your BA level was more than 1.5 times the legal limit (.12 for a .08 state, .15 for a .10 state), which is defined as an "Excessive BAC" under section 4.6.3.1. I am quite certain that your .19 BA is in that category, as I cannot imagine that any state has a legal limit of .13.
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Folks suggesting that the OP "turn themselves in" in order to meet some parental "always tell the truth " kind of guidance is in my opinon Really BAD advice akin to suggesting that someone has a duty to throw themselves on a grenade. If this doesn't fall into the category of required reporting under the applicable AFROTC regulation - which "Deskjockey's" post above seems to suggest- then IT's NOT REQUIRED. Further as DesckJockey also points out in the reg- if he does report and his BAC level is in a category that CAN NOT BE WAIVED by the Det Commander- then your advice is in fact advice to destroy themselves professionally by reporting something that they are not required to report. Under the AFROTC regs quoted by Desk Jockey- IMHO it's irresponsible to suggest that this kid report himself- suggesting that he do so isn't just some learning point, it's potential career suicide. Now the OP could take that advice but I surely wouldn't.

The OP has a real problem- they drank themselves into near Alcohol poisoning. That's both stupid and potentially deadly. My advice to the OP: SHUT UP- The hospital as Luigi pointed out- will not release this information, and STOP DRINKING whether or not you are underage, because clearly you can not control yourself.
 
Cool story, aglages. You still would be the one being difficult. You are correct, reading comprehension is an important skill you should learn.

I simply responded with "Yes, multiple times." This answer applied to both the AROTC and AFROTC units at my school. You know I'm AROTC so you jumped to a conclusion.

And yes, I'm glad you recognize that AROTC has battalion commanders not detachment commanders. But on a forum like this, an intelligent person can easily understand interchanging the terms. For example, look at PIMAs posts. She knows the AFROTC world so sometimes when referring to other branches units she still says Det instead of BN, etc. because its the term she's familiar with. I still understand what she's saying.
 
bruno,

So your advice is to shut up and hope?
That is what you are saying as far as I read it. Don't say squat. Hope.

Bullet is in the midst of getting his TS clearance again... 5th time, 25 yrs later. Our best friend, AFA grad, ADAF crew mate is a reference. Bullet is 48. He met the agent at a place like Starbucks. One of the questions asked:

Does Bullet have an alcohol issue?

Bullet has no DUI's, no hospital admittance issues like the OP. Served 25 yrs as an officer, but when push came to shove they still asked it. The OP wants rated. Bullet was rated, He is not like the OP at 18-19 yo with alcohol issues. He has none...nada...zip...zilch...48 yo. The OP has it at 18/19/20.


TS clearance is 6-9 months...you can't hide this issue.

As far as the BAC re:waiver...sorry...no pity. He signed that dang document as a scholarship recipient. Play it anyway you want! The OP broke the law!

Show me right now a state that has a drinking age of under 21. He broke the law, end of subject, period, dot! Play it. roll it anyway you want...the law is the law! He broke it and now he is asking the military to turn a blind eye!

That is the fact. Until you can prove to me different he broke the law

Push come to shove he broke the law. He drank underage. I don't want him to go to jail, lose the opportunity for commissioning, but I am not going to give him a pass.

I expect him to MAN UP! He screwed up. I expect him to be above the avg 18 yr old in college.

I also expect that the cadre gets that!

Have I said it enough...he knew he broke the law? C'mom are you saying/implying he didn't know the legal age for alcohol was 21...AFROTC scholarship recipients have a 28 best sitting...not superscore. Their not dumb!

I guess we have to agree to disagree. I couldn't live that life knowing maybe hiding the fact I got SFT or UPT. I would wonder if I was truthful, would I be here??

That would be me...I would want to get SFT with all of the facts on the table. I wouldn't want doubt that I got it by using a loop hole because I hid the facts.

I wouldn't want to ask references to cover me if they are asked about alcohol issues...Again Bullet is 48, his 5th TS clearance, yet they still ask that question for his references.
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I 1000% agree with you regarding:
bruno said:
The OP has a real problem- they drank themselves into near Alcohol poisoning. That's both stupid and potentially deadly
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The fact they downplayed the severity of 0.19% BAC illustrates they don't get it.

OBTW as I have stated this is not just ROTC or DoDMERB, this OP wants rated...it is TS clearance too.

OP do what works for you, but as you can see the parents here are saying character means more than the dang butter bar!
 
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I am going to wade into the water one more time on this. I am not defending the OP's actions but trying to offer reasoned advice.

I did a quick search yesterday and was surprised to see that underage drinking is not necessarily a "crime." There was a bunch of legal stuff around it but it depends upon how each state, municipality etc handles it. "Amnesty laws" and tactics like reduction to a misdemeanor "disorderly conduct" can be applied. It seems that in some areas, seeking help releases you from an underage drinking charge.

If we accept your position that any underage drinking is a crime, then blood alcohol level is immaterial. He broke the law. Should he self-report or should he only report if caught and charged with a crime? Would he have the same self-report obligation if he drives 1 mph above the speed limit? What if he jaywalks, trespasses, etc. Where do we draw the line?

For me DeskJockey provided the best information: The OP signed an AFROTC agreement (or is operating in an environment) where self-reporting is only mandatory if there is civil, administrative or military involvement. As far as the OP knows, there is none. Therefore no reporting. Seems clear cut to me.

The story will get out now and perhaps in the future. If the OP learns his lesson, stays clean, avoids any additional alcohol related issues, I would seriously doubt if would affect a TS clearance. One incident, in college, no charges. Hardly a sign of an issue. However, this comes with a warning: repeated alcohol abuse will most certainly hurt him.

Perhaps he dodged a bullet if no charges are ever filed. He will most likely have to deal with this on some level and live in fear of something coming out at some time. If he successfully dodges the bullet, he will be looking over his shoulder for some time. I hope that will be motivation enough to avoid underage alcohol consumption and alcohol abuse at any age.

If this incident comes to light via charges, reports or peers, I would expect him to man up and face the consequences.
 
Pima,

I think your a little caught up on the "crime" thing. I agree with the poster who pointed out that driving 10 mph over the speed limit is a crime too, but where is the self reporting responsibility there? As long as the OP learns his lesson, and is not obligated to report based on his contract terms, I see no reason for him to destroy a potential career over some irrational fear that its going to harm a background check or somehow invalidate SFT selection that was earned. Its not like the alcohol incident gave him a leg up, so i don't see how that would make you doubt an accomplishment like that.
 
Assumptions

Where in any of the OP posts (I only see the one) did he say he a) had a scholarship and b) was under 21?

Am I missing something?
 
Tigger, it was in the "subject" heading of the OP's original post.

I was thinking the same thing earlier and went back to check.
 
Jcleppe said:
Really?
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I meant that a tech major is more useful for the Air Force. I'm a non-tech major also and I know that selection for non-tech majors is more difficult for things such as SFT. I'm just suggesting that the Air Force would have an easier time letting someone go if they didn't have a critical major that they needed.
 
Concerned about you

anonymous said:
Hello,

I am currently a contracted AFROTC cadet. I was recently taken to the Emergency Room for excessive intoxication. My BAC was not life threatening (0.19). My question is, does AFROTC have any way to find out about this, and will it come back to bite me later? I had no involvement with the police/civil authorities, only the hospital. My university is also pretty forgiving, I am in no trouble with them. I know many of you will probably tell me to report it, but realistically that may not be in my best interests.
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Anonymous,

I appreciate MedB's "dad" advice.

I'll add to this that is takes a pretty good effort to raise your BAC to .19. I "practiced" with a breathalyzer once upon a time and was shocked how much it took to get over .10 and even more shocked to discover how wasted I was at .10.

So, the .19 either happened after a long day/evening/night of pretty continual drinking and/or you slammed several in a short period of time. This might mean you were letting it rip after a stressful period, were being cheered on and influenced/encouraged by an audience, or you were self medicating. None of these are characteristics of a self disciplined, confident, self assured military officer. You already know that, so I'll stop lecturing.

I'm not advising you on the reporting part, but be very careful and do some self examination. It's likely to happen again if you do not. It won't happen on purpose, just like this incident did not happen on purpose. I'd go the total sobriety route at this point--boring as it may be. I guarantee you won't accidentally have another incident if you go that route.

Good luck, and take care of yourself.
 
bruno said:
Folks suggesting that the OP "turn themselves in" in order to meet some parental "always tell the truth " kind of guidance is in my opinon Really BAD advice akin to suggesting that someone has a duty to throw themselves on a grenade. If this doesn't fall into the category of required reporting under the applicable AFROTC regulation - which "Deskjockey's" post above seems to suggest- then IT's NOT REQUIRED. Further as DesckJockey also points out in the reg- if he does report and his BAC level is in a category that CAN NOT BE WAIVED by the Det Commander- then your advice is in fact advice to destroy themselves professionally by reporting something that they are not required to report. Under the AFROTC regs quoted by Desk Jockey- IMHO it's irresponsible to suggest that this kid report himself- suggesting that he do so isn't just some learning point, it's potential career suicide. Now the OP could take that advice but I surely wouldn't.

The OP has a real problem- they drank themselves into near Alcohol poisoning. That's both stupid and potentially deadly. My advice to the OP: SHUT UP- The hospital as Luigi pointed out- will not release this information, and STOP DRINKING whether or not you are underage, because clearly you can not control yourself.
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A well thought out position with regards to the AFROTC requirements.

However, he will have to fill out his DoDMERB sometime in his Junior year where he will be required to answer yes to having been medically treated for Alcohol use (part of question 7 with details of date, etc in question 83).

for those of you without the form handy...
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/infomgt/forms/eforms/dd2492.pdf

If he does not complete this information and someone turns him in, he is toast. Likewise, if the hospital admission turns up in a TS background check. If he turns it in on DoDMERB, he could be medically disqualified.

My posts have been to point out that he will be looking over his shoulder. Clearly he has made his decision and is trying to figure out what tracks he has to cover. There isn't a perfect solution for him.

Your advice as to STOP DRINKING is 100% correct. Anyone who ends up in an ER with alcohol poisoning should not even attempt to recreate any part of that failed experiment. Clearly, he lacks the wherewithal to stop himself. I cannot see any amount of "training" that will give 100% confidence that this will not be repeated.
 
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