Women at USMA

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by MoSwimmer66, Aug 10, 2018.

  1. MoSwimmer66

    MoSwimmer66 Member

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    So, did the USMA tour last week with DD. As it is summer, I had not expected a large crowd. There were about 15 prospective candidates from rising HS juniors and seniors. The Admissions Officer was fantastic. The tour was very expansive as he took us into a number of academic buildings and the cafeteria as well as of course a tour of the grounds. He was a class of 2016 graduate. At the end of the tour, he allowed one on one questions and made it known that there was no rush and ask away. The personal time and the commitment were appreciated. I wonder since it is summer, he was less pressed for time.

    What struck me the most is that my DD was the only girl on the tour. Admissions Officer said that this year's entering class is roughly 20% women; his class was 9%. So, based on this, WP seems to be attracting more women, but still lags USNA. Any thoughts?
     
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  2. Love4monsters

    Love4monsters Member

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    Did you sign up for the tour online? We plan on going for the Army/AF game in November after my son’s senior football season is over. He tried to sign up for a tour and there were no tours.

    I have 4 sons so I cannot speak to the differences for females between USNA and USMA.
     
  3. jebdad

    jebdad 5-Year Member

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    West Point's last two class profiles that are available indicated women at about 22-24%. USNA last two are approximately 27-28%. I think you may have misunderstood as the class profile for 2016 indicates 19% women at USMA.

    I have a DD at WP who also applied to USNA and I don't consider that a significant difference. In the end, in what capacity does she want to serve. My DD hasn't never mentioned or worried that there needed to be more women at WP.
     
  4. Soldiergriz

    Soldiergriz Husband, Dad, Soldier

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    The admissions team at West Point is exceptional. My son's experience on his tour was exactly as you described and he was there during the winter when the application review and acceptance process was in full-swing. I think they just have a very good process and staff to execute it.
     
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  5. SMP

    SMP Member

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    If there is a discrepancy, it could possibly be that, generally speaking, the overall physical demands on personnel in the Army are greater than those on personnel in the Navy, which may make a career in the Navy more attractive to women.
     
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  6. Devil Doc

    Devil Doc Teufel Doc

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    Except for: the Marine Corps, that nutty world's ultimate gun club who was named Devils by the Germans, Navy showers when steaming under normal plant ops and no showers when engineering casualties happen, the promise of "See the World" and pull into only one port to refuel and take on stores because there is a war going on, no OB/Gyn available because 80 percent of the operational Navy and Marine Corps has people like me, the Independent Duty Corpsman as their primary care provider. We get the job done though. Google it. And, the Army has more MOS selections from which to choose.

    The Navy/Marine Corps team is more attractive for many reasons. Being easier though is not one of them.
     
  7. MidwestDad

    MidwestDad Member

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    Being biased of course I think USMA has a reputation for being tougher physically than any of the other SAs. And more pilot slots available at other SAs; aviation is a popular career option.

    And they get wheelie bags on I day in Annapolis . . .

    But in all candor the difference between 24% and 28% is really not that great. 1 in 4 are females at both SAs.
     
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  8. SMP

    SMP Member

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    Yes, of course the Marine Corps is the exception, which, because of its physical demands (and less non-physically demanding MOS choices), may be why there are fewer women in Marines on a percentage basis then there are in the Army. However, with regard to the Navy, sans the Marines, the percentage of women is much higher than in the Army.

    Component Military Enlisted Officer Male Female

    Army 471,513 376,206 90,785 465,784 69,345

    Marine Corps 184,427 163,092 21,335 181,845 15,551

    Navy 325,802 267,286 54,114 265,852 62,168

    Air Force 323,222 258,015 61,144 270,462 50,750
     
  9. Love4monsters

    Love4monsters Member

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    You had me at wheelie bags.
     
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  10. MidCakePa

    MidCakePa Member

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    I believe the technical term is “not statistically significant.”

    DD received offer of appointment to both USNA and USMA. She seriously considered both before deciding on USNA. Gender composition, or gender-related considerations of MOS or academy activities. played zero role in her choice. I suspect that’s true for at least 98% of women who apply.
     
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  11. GoCubbies

    GoCubbies Member

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    My DD is applying to the USMA. She's dating this really nice boy. We like him a lot. His family likes my DD. Really popular with the girls (apparently, he's good-looking). He's won the award at their HS given to the student who most exemplifies Catholic values, etc... since freshman year. Starting RB for the football team. State track finalist in the 200m and 4x100m. All-American type of guy. He's probably going to college near here so there will be some distance between them if my DD has the privilege of getting an appointment to any of the SAs.

    My DD and I were going on one our long runs one day and I talked her about relationships because I'm trying to manage her expectations. My concern is if this boy breaks up with her, then how is she going to handle it with all the other things going on. I'm hoping she'll be so busy the first year that the break-up will be the last thing on her mind. I also told her something along the lines of... look sweatheart... the ratio of boys to girls is like 75:25. You shouldn't have any problem getting a boy to like you at the schools you're thinking of going, but I'd really prefer you concentrate on the books. :)

    I also had her read Tough as Nails: One Woman's Journey Through West Point by Gail O'Sullivan Dwyer. The author was a member of the 2nd class of females that went through West Point. She talks about relationships - what's allowed, what's not allowed, when and where things are allowed, etc... The author, as the title suggests, talks about what she and her fellow females faced at West Point - the good, the bad, and the ugly. Granted, the ratio is better now than it was in the late 70s, but the lessons are similar. My DD loved the book.

    So my thoughts are really not much. Maybe I'm not thinking about this as deep as maybe I should? I'm also in the military, so I suppose that could also be a reason why I haven't thought much about my DD going to a school where the gender ratio is imbalanced. My "norm" is gender ratio imbalanced. At airborne school, many, many more males than females. Same at air assault school. Same at SERE and SOF community (really imbalanced).
     
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  12. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe 5-Year Member

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    Great post by the way.

    I just wanted to recount what was said during a Meet and Greet in our area for newly accepted students to the university my son had selected to attend. The Dean of Students was there and gave an informal welcome and speech. During the speech he made a few comments that made myself and my wife smile a bit, he said "You're heading off to college, leave the high school attitude behind, leave your letterman's jacket in your home closet, and leave the hometown honey at home" The look's on the faces of the two teens standing next to us was priceless, he was wearing his letterman's jacket filled with patches and pins with his girlfriend clinging tightly.

    In all seriousness, your daughter will be so busy with a new environment and people that she will quickly get through any relationship bumps and bruises.

    Best of luck to her.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  13. Walman888

    Walman888 Member

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    I have a DD completing Beast at West Point. It is more physical than the Naval Academy. NO ONE in their right mind would denigrate the US Marines. They are a separate entity. But I firmly believe that the USMA is the more demanding of the two Academies. R-Day dollies is no urban myth. A pic is worth a thousand words....
     

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  14. Devil Doc

    Devil Doc Teufel Doc

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    Four years at any of the SAs is just a blip in the career of an officer whether it be five or 35 years. I've deployed several times both aboard ship and with the Marines. A deployment aboard ship can be as arduous as one with the Marines. I'm obviously not an academy grad but it doesn't take a Phi Beta Kappa to state that going to WP or Annapolis is just going to college. Yes of course there's that military piece and uniforms and whatnot but the mission is education. Joining the operational forces is a whole different game. Deciding which school to attend based on which service is easier is ludicrous. There are Army officers who sit behind a desk and Navy officers who are deployed seemingly forever.
     
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  15. Jess7655

    Jess7655 New Member

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    I second reading tough as nails, amazing book.
     
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  16. prospective2019

    prospective2019 2023 Hopeful

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    I did a day visit last November and I was one of two female CC’s—I was fortunate enough to be assigned a female plebe to shadow for the day. I had a fantastic experience (I credit her for my desire to go to the school) and to be honest, I did not notice the gender difference at all while I was there. Everyone essentially looks the same. I asked the cadet what it was like as a female—she said she has never had an experience where a male cadet disrespected her or in any way degraded her for her gender.

    I believe our generation is moving past gender differences; we are going into an integrated Army and embrace it as such.
     
  17. SMP

    SMP Member

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    I don't believe anyone was suggesting that candidates are choosing service academies based on which one "is easier". Saying that USMA may be more physically demanding than USNA isn't the same as saying the Navy is easier than the Army. People do make choices on which branch to serve based on their personal strengths and weaknesses. If you are someone who struggles in science and math, then USNA and USAFA may not be your academies of choice because the Navy and Air Force are more machine oriented than the Army and, in general, math and science skills may be more relevant when serving in those service branches. On the other hand, if you are someone 5'5" and 120 lbs, whether male or female, then the idea of rucking 15 miles with 35-60 lbs strapped to your back, is not going to sound particularly appealing to you. In traditional combat roles in the Army and Marines, physical stature has relevance. It has less relevance when serving on a ship or with a flight squadron. As we all know, you don't always get to decide what you want to do in any of the services branches because ultimately they are going to put you where they need you - or think they need you - regardless of what you want. So, I do believe those selecting an academy consider what they may ultimately be tasked with doing once they commission in that service branch.
     
  18. Wishful

    Wishful "Land of the free, because of the brave..." 5-Year Member

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    I have heard that both Wast Point's & Navy's Admissions programs are great.
     
  19. another13mom

    another13mom 10-Year Member

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    FWIW, the 2016 tour guide was in a class that was still under the old class makeup percentiles, which admitted up to 15-16% women, and expected to graduate 9-10% (normal attrition across the board). My 2017 daughter's class make-up also mirrored the 16% admission profile (and graduated 11% of admitted women). During her plebe year, USMA announced (at Congress's request) an expanded female recruiting goal for the class of 2018 going forward, and women have been inching up to 24-25% every year. I can tell you that my daughter's experience at USMA was a good one; she made great friends and earned a degree in a very challenging major. She's currently deployed in a very warm active country and feels very prepared for all aspects of her combat arms role. I think her experience is not uncommon, and she found a lot of support throughout her four years.
     
  20. MidCakePa

    MidCakePa Member

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    @another13mom: This is a stat I’m not aware of. So according to this, women drop out at a significantly greater rate than men do. Is that correct? And if so, do you know why? (If indeed the case, I’d think West Point / Army / DOD are digging deep to find out why, and trying to remedy the issue.) Thanks for clarifying.