"You gotta know someone!"

justdoit19 said:
Be impressed that so many actually know what a SA is! See threads ‘your son or daughter is going where??’, rounds one and two, for our personal experience 😆
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Oh we have heard things like that too! Lol. "Oh so he needs to go to the military to pay for college? I hate that for him."....
 
Texark147 said:
Oh we have heard things like that too! Lol. "Oh so he needs to go to the military to pay for college? I hate that for him."....
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Lmao. Literally a month before my son graduated from USNA, after someone found out he was at USNA he asked me if he was ever going to go to college.

I said he has his eyes on MIT or Georgia Tech for his masters down the road.
 
Texark147 said:
Oh we have heard things like that too! Lol. "Oh so he needs to go to the military to pay for college? I hate that for him."....
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Your silent thought balloon: “No need to hate that for him, he loves the fact he will be getting a first-class college education and guaranteed employment as a junior officer, fighting to protect your right to freedom of speech to say thoughtless things, you lackwit.”


And if you need another vintage word that is just too rarely used these days, here’s this: You mumpsimus. (Stubbornly ignorant)
 
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A1Janitor said:
Literally a month before my son graduated from USNA, after someone found out he was at USNA he asked me if he was ever going to go to college.
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“Actually, no, he’s not. But he does go to N*OT COLLEGE.” 😂

Then you can offer to bring them back a T-shirt from your next visit. 🤣

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Texark147 said:
My DS is a rising senior and in the process of applying to class of '28. He commented the other day that everyone over 40 who finds out that he is applying to the academies comment that he's "gotta know someone high up to get a nomination." This must have been the case back in the day, but it doesn't seem very political these days. Am I wrong about that?
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The short answer is - the statement "you gotta know someone high up" is completely false. That is not how nominations work, and it is not how the application process works. This is a myth usually perpetuated by unsuccessful candidates, disgruntled parents, and people who have no faith in politicians.
 
Texark147 said:
My DS is a rising senior and in the process of applying to class of '28. He commented the other day that everyone over 40 who finds out that he is applying to the academies comment that he's "gotta know someone high up to get a nomination." This must have been the case back in the day, but it doesn't seem very political these days. Am I wrong about that?
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Phrase coined back when:

Don't trust anyone over 30.jpg

Good luck to your DS in his quest for a nomination.
 
One of the things you will find when applying to any SA is that a lot of well-meaning friends/relatives/neighbors and perhaps even your postal carrier will tell you all sorts of things even if they have NO idea what they are talking about. Stick to official sources of info like USNA website or reputable forums such as this one where there are enough people who actually know what they are talking about and can provide current information. Random social media sites can also provide a lot of misinformation. Your political affiliation or how much your parents might have donated to a certain MOC has nothing to do with getting a NOM.

Typically, the MOC will delegate that process to a team who actually works the details, conducts the interviews and makes NOM recommendations. Those who got a TWE in a prior cycle will likely have their own opinions of why they got turned down. When you apply to any highly selective school, you should always pursue a Plan B as well. Far more apply then can be accepted in any highly selective program.
 
My DD requested and had the opportunity to "dry-run" an application/interview with our MOC as a sophomore. The panel was very cordial and even let me sit in on the interview. They chewed her up, spit her out and gave her honest feedback. Now she is in the zone to interview for real this fall and I imagine this is as close as one could get to "knowing" the panel and those making decisions without coercion or pulling strings.
 
tkinion said:
My DD requested and had the opportunity to "dry-run" an application/interview with our MOC as a sophomore. The panel was very cordial and even let me sit in on the interview. They chewed her up, spit her out and gave her honest feedback. Now she is in the zone to interview for real this fall and I imagine this is as close as one could get to "knowing" the panel and those making decisions without coercion or pulling strings.
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Wow, that's an awesome experience. We were lucky and when DS was in 7th grade we attended a Service Academy Forum. The state West Point Parent club had a signup sheet for future mock nomination interviews. DS put his name on it and lo and behold, he got a call in mid-summer from them inviting him to the mock interviews.

They also, chewed him up and spit him out, gave feedback, and sent him back to the waiting room to regroup. 20 minutes later, he got his Mulligan shot and nailed it. The advice and feedback they provided was key I believe to his success in later interviews.

Also, to reiterate what others have said about 'you have to know someone' or have political alignment to earn a nom, not true. My husband and I actively supported the opponent of two MOCs DS got noms from. And until the nominations were final, he never met, saw, or spoke to the MOC, just their staff.
 
Heatherg21 said:
Wow, that's an awesome experience. We were lucky and when DS was in 7th grade we attended a Service Academy Forum. The state West Point Parent club had a signup sheet for future mock nomination interviews. DS put his name on it and lo and behold, he got a call in mid-summer from them inviting him to the mock interviews.

They also, chewed him up and spit him out, gave feedback, and sent him back to the waiting room to regroup. 20 minutes later, he got his Mulligan shot and nailed it. The advice and feedback they provided was key I believe to his success in later interviews.

Also, to reiterate what others have said about 'you have to know someone' or have political alignment to earn a nom, not true. My husband and I actively supported the opponent of two MOCs DS got noms from. And until the nominations were final, he never met, saw, or spoke to the MOC, just their staff.
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My dh is setting up a mock interview day for our ds at his company. Ds really wants to attend an SA and has a great resume but his interviewing skills are his biggest weakness. He would much rather deliver a speech than sit through an interview. One of dh's coworkers suggested the idea of a mock interview day and we all (most of all ds) thought is was a great idea. I'm always so impressed with how free different groups are at investing their time to help young people reach their goals.
 
My son is an introvert … mock trial was an opportunity for him to talk to local lawyers and judges in various roles. Not an interview per se … but it really helped develop communication skills. I highly recommend this type of activity. Builds confidence.

I went in believing he should look like a normal 17 year old - not too polished. Dress well. Know the material. Make eye contact. Speak slowly (my weakness - I speak way too quickly, I also read very quickly). Pause before you start speaking, even when you know what you want to say. Be a gentleman. Be conversational.

These committees know they are dealing with 17 year olds.
 
Texark147 said:
My DS is a rising senior and in the process of applying to class of '28. He commented the other day that everyone over 40 who finds out that he is applying to the academies comment that he's "gotta know someone high up to get a nomination." This must have been the case back in the day, but it doesn't seem very political these days. Am I wrong about that?
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Personal opinion influenced by 49+ years working in/around the USAF, 28+ years commissioned service, USAFA grad, 4 years on USAFA faculty, and a few years supporting the ALO force as a PWO: Political connections are over-rated! Hypothetically, if a DD/DS had a good connection with their local Congressman/woman (MOC), all that would do is get the DS/DD an opportunity to apply to the Academy. Very rarely does a MOC, submit a slate of candidates in a priority order. Therefore, the real challenge is being competitive with respect to the other candidates nominated locally, regionally, and nationally. If one is not competitive for a nomination without political influence, he/she is probably not competitive for an appointment. Someone without any political connections should NOT be discouraged from starting the academy application process!
 
As a BGO for more than 2 decades, I have seen zero evidence that you or your parents need to know a MOC. Your parents do't have to be of the same political party. My parents were actively supporting the opponent of the MOC who gave me a nom.
 
For those that think parental involvement and support of MOCs in itself made the difference, you're Pip in Great Expectations.

And even the MOC's committees change members, timing, process, etc YOY. Has nothing to do with knowing the MOC personally.

Another vote for It Has No Bearing. DD got 2 x TX Cruz & Cornyn and I had no idea who our Senators were before the nomination process, much less donated a dime.
 
Myth 1: You have to know someone to get a nomination and appointment
Myth 2: Knowing someone has no influence on getting a nomination and appointment

Reality
  1. SA's are extremely sensitive to perceptions of favoritism in the appointment process. The admissions process is much more egalitarian than in most other competitive colleges.
  2. The SA appointment process is governed by federal law - most appointments are made on a competitive basis, which means best candidate wins. For USMA that translates into highest WCS score gets appointment in most appointment categories. Other SA's have similar selection processes.
  3. Connections to a MOC may help get a nomination, but that is a long way from getting an appointment. SA's don't care about a candidate's connection to a MOC. They care about qualifications. In fact, pressure from a MOC to push a marginally qualified candidate may work against the candidate - those who work in SA admissions generally resent attempts to influence selection. Caveat to this is contained in #4.
  4. A qualified candidate with very strong connections will get a nomination and appointment, even if they don't win a competitive category. By very strong I don't mean next door neighbor is a retired General or Dad worked on MOC's last campaign. More like uncle is US Senator or Mom is former Cabinet Secretary. For USMA, once congressionally mandated appointments are resolved, the authorized class size is met using the Additional Appointee category, which by law may be chosen out of order of merit. That is where preference may be exercised. Most of the appointments in this category go to recruited athletes and minorities. The number that might go to political favoritism is very small.
 
The MOCs I've worked with (House and Senate) ALL said: "I can't afford even the image of impropriety/favoritism...that's why I have you board members do this for me. When you're done, pick the best for nomination and give them to my staff." Or words to that effect.

They'd come early, usually bring us breakfast and we'd have "unlimited, unfettered access" for a couple of hours. It was great, but they'd usually leave right before the first applicants showed up for interviews, just on the off-chance they "might" know their parents.

Don't need to know anyone.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
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