Your Career in the military?

Bullet, Did you get to do the "Fini Flight?"
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Of course! Lead jet in a 4-ship of Strike Eagles, loaded out with BDU-50s (practice 500# bombs) and BDU-33s (practice 25 # training bombs). Beat up Dare Bombing Range on the Carolina coast for 30 minutes, then split up for BFM (dog-fighting) in the airspace. Went back home to Seymour and beat up the pattern for a while. Family and friends there to see the take-off from the arming area, and to meet the jet on the ramp when we returned. Had several fire trucks on the ramp to give us a rainbow as we taxied back (shot water over the jet in an arc from both sides), and for the hose-down when I stepped out (I was SOAKED!). Back to the squadron bar afterwards for pizza, wings, beer, and a final good-bye for the men and women I flew with. Awesome day all around. :thumb:

The next day was the official retirement ceremony, geared mostly for the family and friends, with my speech tanking them all for a great career.
 
Moving more as you become more senior...

Yes, that is generally true for naval officers. Tour lengths can be adjusted longer or shorter as the favorite phrase, "needs of the Navy," dictate. If you are a hot-runner in your competitive group (other officers in your same commissioning year), it's usually a good thing if your detailer (career assignment advisor) calls you several months before it was expected and offers you a good deal of a chance to excel (another favorite military phrase). Of course, this can also upset the domestic situation in terms of spouse, kids, school, etc., but by the time you are this far into your career, it's second nature to deal with it. Just another adventure...

Standard shore-tour lengths in the Navy are 2-3 years depending on community (warfare specialty) and current optempo. Those can always be curtailed go to back to sea or to some other assignment where the Navy needs you more. I was happily situated in a great tour in Long Beach, CA, commander command selection in hand, and awaiting my turn to go to O-5 command a year or two down the road. My detailer called and said, hey, the CO of XYZ command just got relieved for cause (bad things), you have the right experience and performance for this, and besides, Admiral ABC knows you are in the command screen queue and trusts you to get this unit back up and running. And, it's in Pearl Harbor, where you've been before and know the ropes. OK, sign me up! Command a year earlier than my peer group, oh yes. Swiftly adjusting plans both professional and personal are a life skill by this time. That abrupt termination of current orders and being sent elsewhere to deal with a problem became a theme in my career. All to the good -- when you are sent in to rescue a failing command, set up a new one or otherwise forge new ground, if you pull it off, you get all the glory.

You learn to stay fluid and roll with it. We have a sponsor daughter who, after her initial at-sea tours as a Surface Warfare Officer, rolled ashore for 3 years to a great job as an instructor at a warfare school. Barely a year into that tour, enjoying living in a real house and working shore hours, she was plucked up and sent to the combat zone for a year's temporary duty. But - the detailer offered her a plum - come back from that, do another six months instructing, then we will cut your tour short and get to you graduate school for your Master's before you go back to sea. She demonstrated great performance and flexibility all along the way and has been rewarded for it. She is scheduled to assume command of a Navy ship this year.

Now that I'm retired and have actually lived in the same house with the same neighbors for a few years, I admit to getting restless and feeling like I should move on to another challenge. Old habits die hard.

In our family, with both of us active duty, we loved the stimulation and challenge of new commands and locations. No regrets there. Yeah, there was some PITA stuff (pain in you-know-what), but that's the price you pay for imcomparable life experiences.

I enjoyed the stories above of last flights, etc. When you are finally all done, it's a bittersweet, joyous, emotional time marked by special ceremonies and the fellowship of shipmates, wingmen (mates?), battle buddies.
 
Bullet, that's awesome! Did you get to take the stick on that flight? Haha I've heard about the hosing ceremony :shake:

Capt MJ-- how long does it take to get command of a ship in the Navy?

tpg-- Why were you in the hospital?

Thanks guys! :thumb:
 
Command oppportunity at sea in the Navy's Surface Warfare Community usually comes along at the rank of Commander, or O-5, roughly the 15-16-17year point in the career. There is some opportunity to command smaller ships such as minesweepers at the rank of Lieutenant Commander, O-4, and I'm a bit rusty as to whether the handful of LT (O-3) commands that I knew of a few years back are still around.

Aviators usually hit command of a squadron about the same time, and a select few occasionally go on to command aircraft carriers as a captain (O-6).

This is all "in general." Each officer community has its own career path, command opportunity and typical flow points to critical professional career tours of duty. Winnowing occurs at each promotion board and command screening board.

It's good to be aware of this stuff, but change is part and parcel of military life, so what is true today may not apply a few years down the road.

There is much to be said for enjoying the heck out of your junior officer years and learning leadership skills at the deckplate level! Every step in the career path is designed to stretch the junior officer to learn the skills needed for eventual command.
 
One thing to realize when discussing command positions is the fact that very few of you will ever have one, it is not the norm. Out of the 16 guys that started FTU with Bullet back as an O-1, I believe only 1 got a command, it was not an operations command. Out of his XTU class of 14 into the Strike, 3 got a command, 2 of them were BPZ. Even looking back at our O-3 days, regarding the squadron friends we hung with, out of a group of 15 or so guys, I can only recall 2....out of the entire squadron of O-3, O-4's and O-5's. I can count on my both hands those that got a command who were in Bullet's peer group, not his promotion board group, but peer (O-4 pinned when we were O-4 select).

It is great to have that as a goal, but realize it is very competitive. Maybe 10%, and in honesty, alot has to do with your career progression. In the AF if you want a command you better be accepted to WIC! Also, politics will eventually play into the equation, the statement it's not what you know, but who you know is true. Many commanders are by name requests from the Wing King, thus, you might think that you have a shot and the next morning you hear they are bringing in an O-5 BPZ for the short class with a follow onto your base...in other words, that flyer was by name requested and will be taking a command in the very near future.

Keep your goals of Command, but most aviators will say you never want to be Commander, you want to be the #2 in charge of OPS.
 
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Command opportunities

CAPT MJ and Pima,

very interesting that only a select few officers get a command...why would an aviator rather be the ops officer, Pima?

I've heard that in the CG commands come within 2 years after commissioning...does anyone know if that's true?
 
I'll chime in too, I guess.

Commissioned 2LT in USAF from ROTC at VMI.

-Assigned as a student at Vandenberg AFB, California for Undergraduate Space and Missile Training (USMT). USMT was four weeks long, and it was here that I was tracked as a 13SxC, Missileer. After USMT, spent several months assigned with the 2nd Space Launch Squadron in casual status before starting Missile Initial Qualification Training (IQT) for the Minuteman III Intercontinental Ballistic Missile System (ICBM). I was trained on the Rapid Execution and Combat Targeting (REACT-A) system. IQT was four months long, and I got my pocket rocket (missile operations badge) after graduation. Total time in Vandenberg was about seven months.

Assigned to Minot AFB, ND with the 742 Missile Squadron. Qualified as a Combat Mission Ready (CMR) Deputy Missile Combat Crew Commander (DMCCC) in about two months time after Unit Qualification Training (UQT). Stayed a DMCCC for a little over a year, pulling alerts and completing all required training, and then upgraded to an Instructor position in the Squadron (promoted to 1LT). Was an Instructor for about four months before upgrading to Missile Combat Crew Commander. Was certified to pull alerts at the Squadron Command Post/Alternate Command Post (SCP/ACP) by the time I decided to separate from the service (as a Captain). Total time in Minot, around 3.5 years. Total alerts pulled: about 265.

Overall, I wasn't a fan of Minot of of missile operations, but I wouldn't trade my experience for anything.
 
Sam,

Very simple answer, the OPSO/DO is really in charge of the flying side of the house and not the whole house. People don't realize that when the 20 yo airman gets a DUI, the commander is called, regardless of the hour, and that commander will have to deal with punishing the 20 yo. The commander has a lot more BS to deal with. Every squadron commander has more than the flying part under their command...i.e. life support, intel, administration, etc, the majority of these positions are enlisted.. The OPSO really has only officers reporting to them directly (to be a pilot you must be an officer). They are of course 2nd in charge, but the job is quite different.

You want the command because that is the only way you will get a star, and for many a bird.

I can't speak for other services, but I can say from Bullet's time in the AF fighter community, the majority of the DO's do become a commander later on. With that knowledge, realize the path is made about 2 yrs prior to become a CC. Typically, at that stage of your career, you are an LTC, or LTC select. If you are an LTC and see an LTC select get it, the fat lady is probably warming up her pipes regarding your career progression. I have also seen people in complete denial that she is singing in the corner and become very bitter when they finally realize that it is never going to happen. Most CC's and DO's that have respect for you will politely show you the writing on the wall by giving you the chance to PCS to a new assignment in hopes that you can still become one. If they don't have respect for you they will yank your chain for a very long time by placing you in positions that are high vis, but unlikely to get you a command. In other words they are using your experience to make them look good!

As I said earlier have the dream, but be realistic. A squadron could have 70 fliers, 25 of them might be O-4/O-5. There is only one CC and 1 DO. Statistically not everyone can get a command.

PS to add on to the 20 yo DUI, the very good commanders also show up at the hospital when anyone of their people or their family is there. Our CC was there 10 minutes after our DD arrived by ambulance. The DO was not, mainly because that is the CC's job.
 
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One other item for those that want to be a CC or DO, it is never too early to plot your career. DON'T BE RIGID, but keep the goal in your sights.

The AF wants CC's to be the best flyer. That starts from day one at UPT, graduating DG at UPT, sets you up for FTU. It also means applying for and being accepted to WIC. We had 8 leaders (4 squadrons = 4 CC's and 4 DO's) ONLY 1 did not have a patch! You don't go to WIC as a LT, but you also don't go as a Major. That means you have only a few yrs to prove yourself to your command and base to get their support for that school.

I am not saying if you don't get DG at UPT it is all over, what I am saying is that the guy at your 1st operational base will arrive with a report like you on your flying abilities. There was a guy in AK, that got the name ZERO as his call sign because he received one on his check ride. Hard to change the commander's belief that you are a great pilot when you got a zero.

Secondly, many flyers believe that they should never step out of the jet to fly a desk. You can do it, again WIC is the route, but for the most part, they will want to see sometime out of the jet, preferably for PME in residence or a joint assignment. We saw guys that refused to take a desk, instead took remotes and came back to the same base. NONE of them got any type of command. This was more due to the fact that the one that stepped out went to PME, and the promotion boards would promote them below zone. Wing Kings typically will give a DO spot to a BPZ, or AGAIN a WIC. You need to shine somewhere.

Finally, PCSing! It makes a difference. PCS when you are a yr below promotion hurts you, because now when you are in zone, you are fighting against the others that have been there longer than you...think loyalty. Does the commander support you who he/she has only known for 6 mos., or the other person who has a proven track record under their command for the last 18 months? Wing Kings are given a specific number of DPs that they can give out, they can't just give out DPs to everyone. DP's are highly fought over because it basically means you will get rank, P's place you in the maybe/maybe not pile.

CAVEAT: Your record does follow you, Bullet got the only DP in an office of 6 up after only 3 months there. Why? Because he went to PME in residence to a sister school.

Again, plot your career so you can optimize your moves to the best advantage. Bullet knew when he made O-4 and was on the PME list, we needed to move by a certain date to give him the best advantage for being selected for the school's list. He also took the right assignment when he stepped out from the jet for the 1st time. He did it as a young captain, knowing that he would be allowed to come back into the op world because of his gate months. While he was out of the jet he got his Masters so he wouldn't have to worry about it at a later date.

Had Bullet never done a joint with the Army as a Captain and got his Masters, he probably would have not been eligible for PME. Had he not done his joint Army assignment he probably would have not gotten PME at Leavenworth. Had he done it later, he probably would have not been eligible to come back in the jet because he would have met his gate months. That one decision impacted his career progression for 10 yrs in the AF. More importantly, had he never stepped out, he would never have had the experience he got, and would not have been as valuable to defense contractors when he retired.

You are young, and I remember when Bullet got in the AF thinking O-5's were near the age of collecting SS. I thought WOW they are so old and felt it like it would be forever before we were that ancient. In the end at Bullet's retirement, I remember sitting in the hangar and wondering where did the time go, because it only seemed like yesterday that we were living at Mt Home and sitting in a hangar when he was awarded DG for FTU. Unfortunately that's the irony of life...you hate it and it drags on forever, you love it and it goes by in a blink of an eye.
 
Sprog-- So would you not suggest going into the space/missile path if I can't fly? What are some of the other places you could be based as a missileer?

Pima...I've been wanting to say this to you and Bullet for a long time, ever since I joined SAF...THANK YOU! You two have provided me with so much advice in your posts. You guys could write a book about a military career! Would you advise trying to get into the Joint Operations field, like Bullet did?


All of you guys are great! :thumb:
 
SamAca10 said:
Sprog-- So would you not suggest going into the space/missile path if I can't fly? What are some of the other places you could be based as a missileer?

Pima...I've been wanting to say this to you and Bullet for a long time, ever since I joined SAF...THANK YOU! You two have provided me with so much advice in your posts. You guys could write a book about a military career! Would you advise trying to get into the Joint Operations field, like Bullet did?


All of you guys are great! :thumb:
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Consider Air Battle Manager. It's a "flying" spot, not a pilot slot, but VERY important!

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Air Battle Manager? I've heard of it I think, but what exactly is there job like....I was thinking, what about RPV's? I read an article the other day that they've beta tested a track for RPV pilots...
 
An Air Battle Manager controls the battlespace from airborne platforms, and some ground-based platforms as well. They control the airspace and air to ground interactions as well. AWACS and JSTARS are the two big aircraft utilized by ABMs. Being an ABM is a rated career field, FYI.

Missile Bases are Minot, Malmstrom (Montana), and FE Warren (Wyoming). Space operators (non missile) follow a little bit different of a career path, and there isn't as much "cross flow" between missile and space jobs as there used to be in the 1990s.

As far as being a missileer as a career choice, it is a great responsibility, but not the most exciting thing in the universe. I'd make sure I considered all the options if I had to make the career choice again. If you don't mind being isolated, and the northern tier of the US isn't too much of a scary proposition, it isn't that bad. If you need urban culture (I do), it isn't the best.
 
sprog said:
Yeah, that's a lot of time underground. A lot of tater tots eaten.
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Eh...slacker...short-tour Northern Tier type, eh? :shake:

6 Years..."El Forko Grande" (Grand Forks AFB for folks NOT in tune with the Great White North)

14,616 hours SIOP alert. :eek:

Tater tots...do NOT go there.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
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