January 4, 2011 AROTC Board

paradoxer said:
I'm not saying 30 ACT wouldn't be better as you still can get those points from the board and there a lot more points to be had from them. Possibly both pieces of information are true, possibly not. Was told that the PFT scores could be viewed the same way; basic points awarded but when reviewed by the board a 5 minute mile tells you something about the applicant - 1/2 gazelle.
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Half gazelle...you forgot the smiley:shake:




ps. noticed when I was back on the main index, our thread reached 500 replies with this post....wow.
 
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Interesting stuff. My DS got the maximum on the interview. His SAT/gpa would give him the maimum as well based on the above. His leadership and activity score should be close to maximum as well with varsity football, four years JROTC, awards at Army summer camp and a leadership role for his voluntry work.

Got to figure his score was 620+ prior to board review.
 
paradoxer said:
I'm not saying 30 ACT wouldn't be better as you still can get those points from the board and there a lot more points to be had from them. Possibly both pieces of information are true, possibly not. Was told that the PFT scores could be viewed the same way; basic points awarded but when reviewed by the board a 5 minute mile tells you something about the applicant - 1/2 gazelle.
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Your answer makes sense, that there are 2 ways that scores and GPA are considered and that what I was told was the board's portion. Thanks to all who have responded to my posts, I appreciate the insight. :thumb:
 
Sorry if this post rambles a bit but there has been a lot written in the last day and I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

If you look at the interview sheet there is a line that asks if the applicant has a 3.5 and a Min. 24 ACT or 1100 SAT. If you met both those then the box was checked. These are sort of the magic numbers, numbers above those marks are used to basically break a tie between applicants with similar applications. None of us know exactly how they assign the points. A strong showing in athletics is as important as the academics and then you add in the leadership. When it was mentioned that they were sending Dodmerb to those with a score of 400 or above it could very well be that they are only looking at the Interview and the GPA/SAT/ACT, again nobody knows and the speculation will just drive everyone a little crazy.

Now, about the whole school selection thing. Patentesq, you are basically correct in your assumption. An applicant that lists only highly competetive schools will need a higher score then an applicant that lists less competetive schools. The Air Force ROTC is the only branch that is a true merit based scholarship system. They list everyone on an OML from the top down, they award the schaolarships and then the applicant selects which school to take that scholarship too. The Army and Navy do not work that way, for better or worse that's the way it is.

This brings me to my biggest pet peeve regarding colleges, sorry if I rant a bit. I often see posts here that compare schools, calling some Top Notch and others Easy Street. I think that there is sometimes a perception that because a school is very competitive it is automaticlly a Top Notch School. This is not always the case. The Ivy's of course have the name recognition, tradition, and competitivness that make them the top of the list.

I live in Washington State, we have some fine universities in our state, some competitive and some not. One example is Gonzaga University. Not so many years ago if you could afford it you could get in without much trouble, then their basketball team started to get national attention. They have since become a basketball elite school. Their admissions went way up following the national exposure. Now it is very difficult to gain addmission and by their own accout they owe this to the rise of their basketball team. It's funny sometime what can make a school more competitive. The University of Washington average admission stats are through the roof, they never used to be that way. The amount of people applying for admission has risen so high that if you don't have a 3.9 and a 1450 SAT you better be a great football player to get in.

Then there are the smaller schools and state schools that are less competitive. This does not mean that the schools are inferior in their education. One example comparison, the University of Idaho has a great Engineering program. Upon graduation all students are required to take the national engineering test, the same test given to graduates from all schools. Idaho has a 98.9% pass rate for the first time tests. MIT has 97.6% pass rate. This does'ne make one school better then the other, it just shows that one is not inferior to the other.

Attending college is about choices, it is about where the student feels comfortable and feels they have the best learning environment, it should not be about status. Recent studies have shown that the earning gap between the Ivy's and State colleges has shrunk to a point that in some aresa the state schools even have an edge.

It used to be that if you had a High School diploma you could get a good job, work your whole life and retire with a pention. A bachelors degree gave you that big jump to a higher paying job and a better retirement. Now the bachelors degree seems to be the starting point and a master's degree is needed to advance farther in your career. Where you receive your bachelors degree is less important then where you get your masters these days.

If a young persons' dream has been to go to Princeton, Harvard, or Yale then they should follow those dreams and do everything they can to achieve them. If a student decides to attend a smaller less known college, because during their visit they clicked with the professors, loved the town and felt at home on the campus, they shouldn't be regarded as Thick Muppets going to a Crappy School. I guess I have two Thick Muppets and I couldn't be prouder of them and their Crappy School.

Selecting a school is a individual choice, one is not better then the other only different. It comes down to what the student does when they are there and what they do with it when they graduate and leave. They need to enjoy where they are at so they can do their best.

OK I'm done with my rant.

One thing about the scholarships and school selections, it can seen a bit unfair when you see some applicants selected for the scholarship that have Grade Stats less then those who have not been selected based on the schools they choose. Unfortunatly this is the way the Army ROTC works right now. Last year there were scholarships offered to applicants and the ROTC batallions at the schools they had listed were full, they were allowed to find a different school with open slots if they chose to.

My son is one of those that received a scholarship on the first board. His GPA/ACT scores were not as high as some of you have stated for your son's and daughters. I am sure that his school selections had somethig to do with his selection. When we met with the ROO from his #1 school he pulled up the list of applicants that had listed their school. My son was close to the top of the list, I' sure if he had listed Va Tech, UCLA, Princeton or others he would not have been that high on the list.

One thing to remember is that once the applicants are board ready each school has a list that shows all the applicants that listed their school. The PMS then looks at the list and makes a check mark next to the names that they would accept to their program, they then state whether they would offer a 4 or 3 year scholarship. This list is then sent back to cadet command and given to the board that meets. If an applicant is at the top of the schools list he will more then likely get an offer even though his states may be lower then the national average. So no, there is not a single national OML that determines who will get an offer based soley on the numbers, they have to also look at the individual schools and base some offers on the stats of the applicants for that school. The way the system is set up, if they didn't do it that way some schools would get no scholarship offers at all. Not a perfect system but it is the one that is in place and the one we all have to live with, like it or not.

Trying to second guess the number game or trying to figure out what the WPS is for each applicant will just drive you crazy. Nobody knows how it works. Someone that was involved with the Army ROTC boards a few years ago will base things on how it was then. The scholarship system is completely different now then it was just a few years ago and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't change again soon.

I hope everyone gets the school they are dreaming of. We all have a great group of kids and they have worked hard and deserve the best. I wish all of them the best of luck.
 
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Aspirations

Jcleppe said:
Attending college is about choices, it is about where the student feels comfortable and feels they have the best learning environment, it should not be about status. Recent studies have shown that the earning gap between the Ivy's and State colleges has shrunk to a point that in some aresa the state schools even have an edge.
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Good points. Also saw a study recently that showed that the type of colleges a student aspires to attend were more important long term than the actual college attended.

So many, many factors.
 
@Jcleppe - not a rant at all! Well thought out and well put.
My DS has applied to 3 colleges, his #1 choice for school and ROTC is a small in-state school that he fell in love with. The battalion is highly regarded on campus, he really clicked with the ROO on his visit and has had several personal emails since from the incoming ROO and the PMS. If he is selected for scholarship and this school isn't in his offerings, I think we will both be crushed! The big state school here just did not give him the same feeling - it is well known for its other programs, but his ROTC visit was not as impressive to him. I completely agree that it is important to find the school and program that best suits the individual.

@Ohioparent - this thread has saved my sanity for weeks! It is almost like therapy to log on and see the banter amongst the posts. My friends and family just don't understand any of the jargon or the stress and confusion of it all! There is great information and opinion sharing going on here and I appreciate all the contributors. I think the followup thread when offers start coming will be great.

Bracing for another round of snow here...8-10" predicted today.
 
Ksmom,

I wish your son all the luck in the world. It's nice when they find a school they are excited about. Was this the school in Pittsburg KS. I bet he will receive good news before this whole process is over.

I posted this email my son received today on another thread. I will post the thread here as well just to give everyone a bit more information.

Thread and email:

My son just forwarded an email he received from the ROO at one of the schools he received a scholarship offer from on the first board. He did not select this school but received the email anyway. I have copied the email as written below. I thought it might be good information to share.

Email:

"I just received an e-mail that confirms that the board results have not yet been released for the second board. Just so you know, 460 winners were selected by the first board but only 400 of those accepted their offers. I beleive that the second board will be at least twice that number but we will have to wait and see. I will let you know as soon as I hear or see anything."
 
Ksmom said:
@Jcleppe - not a rant at all! Well thought out and well put.
My DS has applied to 3 colleges, his #1 choice for school and ROTC is a small in-state school that he fell in love with. The battalion is highly regarded on campus, he really clicked with the ROO on his visit and has had several personal emails since from the incoming ROO and the PMS. If he is selected for scholarship and this school isn't in his offerings, I think we will both be crushed! The big state school here just did not give him the same feeling - it is well known for its other programs, but his ROTC visit was not as impressive to him. I completely agree that it is important to find the school and program that best suits the individual.

@Ohioparent - this thread has saved my sanity for weeks! It is almost like therapy to log on and see the banter amongst the posts. My friends and family just don't understand any of the jargon or the stress and confusion of it all! There is great information and opinion sharing going on here and I appreciate all the contributors. I think the followup thread when offers start coming will be great.

Thanks for posting the email your DS received. I saw it in the other thread.

Bracing for another round of snow here...8-10" predicted today.
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Sorry to hear you have more snow on the way...YUCK! And, yes, sanity is sometimes only a log in away:wink: My family and friends don't get any of this, they think it is only about "free" money for DS school.

Jcleppe and others: school choice is a very personal decision. My own DS has also only applied to medium in state and one medium out of state(that offers amazing academic scholarships:wink:) He is re-visiting the OOS choice in light of the ROTC snafu.

Thanks for posting the email you received to our thread. I saw it on its own, hadn't had a chance to comment.
 
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Jcleppe said:
Ksmom,

... Was this the school in Pittsburg KS. I bet he will receive good news before this whole process is over.

I posted this email my son received today on another thread...
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It is... Pittsburg State University; small school about 7,000 students, the battalion is close to 100. DS is going to do an overnight visit and stay with a cadet later this month, he is pretty jazzed about it. : Thanks for the encouragement! smile:

I read your post with the email from the ROO...good information to put some of this in perspective!
 
Ohio2015Parent said:
Just for giggles I went and looked for the most viewed thread...45,350 views, the 2014 Appointment thread. So we've got a ways to go, but prayers that it doesn't get that far, please.:thumb:
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I'm suffering from information overload right now. Can't figure out these WPS numbers -- too many moving parts.

I do have to say, however, that your board is now outpacing the 2015 Appointment thread in terms of views!

Jcleppe, excellent post!
 
Jcleppe said:
they shouldn't be regarded as Thick Muppets going to a Crappy School. I guess I have two Thick Muppets and I couldn't be prouder of them and their Crappy School.
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The Muppet remark was in response to a very unlikely scenario. No offense was meant. I have no doubt every scholarship winner is thoroughly deserving.
 
I have formed two conclusions about this process:

1. Most of the DS/DDs of the active posters on this board will likely get very good news soon. They obviously care a lot about this process, and their credentials for the various opportunities (i.e., chances of getting an ROTC scholarship or entrance to an SA) typically reflect that -- those who care and have information at their fingertips are typically in a better position to maneuver within the system, I suspect.

2. No matter how much we try to figure out how this process works, the fact remains that figuring it out won't improve anyone's chances for a scholarship from the Jan. 4 board. All of the data has already been submitted and considered. All we can do is wait at this point. The one thing I thought about is how this discussion will benefit folks in our position next year. But then I realized that the process next year will likely be different.

@FloridaDad: You are a guality guy. All of us know that. I wouldn't worry about having offended anyone.
 
patentesq said:
I have formed two conclusions about this process:

1. Most of the DS/DDs of the active posters on this board will likely get very good news soon. They obviously care a lot about this process, and their credentials for the various opportunities (i.e., chances of getting an ROTC scholarship or entrance to an SA) typically reflect that -- those who care and have information at their fingertips are typically in a better position to maneuver within the system, I suspect.

2. No matter how much we try to figure out how this process works, the fact remains that figuring it out won't improve anyone's chances for a scholarship from the Jan. 4 board. All of the data has already been submitted and considered. All we can do is wait at this point. The one thing I thought about is how this discussion will benefit folks in our position next year. But then I realized that the process next year will likely be different.

@FloridaDad: You are a guality guy. All of us know that. I wouldn't worry about having offended anyone.
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Patentesq,

That was the BEST Closing Argument I have heard on this subject.

Florida Dad,

Absolutly no offense was taken, my remarks were on a much broader scale. Plus I just liked the way that sounded, Thick Muppets...HaHa
 
February 9th

patentesq said:
I have formed two conclusions about this process:

1. Most of the DS/DDs of the active posters on this board will likely get very good news soon. They obviously care a lot about this process, and their credentials for the various opportunities (i.e., chances of getting an ROTC scholarship or entrance to an SA) typically reflect that -- those who care and have information at their fingertips are typically in a better position to maneuver within the system, I suspect.

2. No matter how much we try to figure out how this process works, the fact remains that figuring it out won't improve anyone's chances for a scholarship from the Jan. 4 board. All of the data has already been submitted and considered. All we can do is wait at this point. The one thing I thought about is how this discussion will benefit folks in our position next year. But then I realized that the process next year will likely be different
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Monday morning quarter backing is a well documented activity. This thread will only be helpful to others in showing that when dealing with the military, or any government agency, expect the unexpected. Also, that no matter how great your kid is, it is normal to be anxious and a little crazy while waiting for the results to come in. Hopefully, the 1/4/11 board is unique and no other groups ever have to wait this long. Personally, I don't take anything said here too seriously(ie the WPS speculation) it is simply killing time over thinking something - like you point out, we cannot change the data submitted or the decisions that may or may not have been made. It is "fun" to tear the process apart and try to figure it out. JMHO.:smile:
 
Seriously....

Ohio2015Parent said:
Personally, I don't take anything said here too seriously(ie the WPS speculation) it is simply killing time over thinking something - like you point out, we cannot change the data submitted or the decisions that may or may not have been made. It is "fun" to tear the process apart and try to figure it out. JMHO.:smile:
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Wondering how full the pantry is these days?
 
New Message on Cadet Scholarship Application Status System

Still out here lurking. This message posted on the Cadet Application Status System this morning:

"We are having problems processing your request. Please call 1-800-750-7682, press option 5, then press option 2 and you will be connected to a processor who can assist you."

An automated system to leave your phone number. This is the first time I have seen this on my status link. Anyone else getting this message?

Still hopeful mom.
 
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