- Joined
- Apr 6, 2010
- Messages
- 307
You guys are right. I do want the true West Point experience on the tour; I'll tour with a plebe.
I would see West Point with a plebe. My cadet had his overnight visit with the plebe who had given him his day tour earlier in the fall. They hit it off, stayed in touch, and my cadet requested him for his overnight. The plebe was very frank with him about Beast and his first year.......his struggles and successes. My cadet valued this honest information and it helped him tremendously when he started at WP.
My son was very good friends with a Cow at the time and even he recommended he do the overnight with a plebe in order to see what the first year is like.
Concur about staying with a Plebe.
It would benefit a candidate to see West Point through the eyes of a Plebe.
In addition to all of the good reasons other posters have stated, you will go to classes with the Plebe. This enables the candidate to see what classes will be like their first year. As a candidate, do you really want to go to class with a Firstie who is in the thick of his/her classes in their major?
As a candidate, I would rather see what Calculus, Chemistry, English etc. were like.
You'll get a pretty comprehensive schedule when you sign up and a list of what to bring, directions, stuff like that. I had a ton of fun on my visit. Echoing Jake, I feel like a visit closer to a weekend on say Thursday or Friday works out well because your son won't have to sit there while the cadet gets through homework, but would get to hang out with more people while also attending classes. Best of both worlds.
abeastlybeast, hopefully your visit isn't scheduled during spring break for the Corps or there will be no one around to stay with...
That being said, make sure to talk to upperclassmen as well. It also has it's benefits as they will have more insight on the full experience and a better perspective on things. It will let you take a look at the destination rather than the path.
While a Plebe will know more about the "suckier" parts of USMA such as duties and things like that, a firstie will be able to tell you the feeling of receiving your class ring, getting your branch, and being so close to getting your diploma and commissioning.
I have my overnight in early March. Have not heard anything about details (no email, etc). Should I have heard by now? I realize that I will likely have to call admissions for this, but just in case others are also interested...
I don't recall the option to request upperclassman vs plebe -- maybe that was something to do via the 'comments' section -
To my knowledge the drags are nearly always yuks (sophomores). That may not be policy, but does seem to be practice.
DS's experience was that the company leadership wanted to meet him, introduced themselves, and the company commander scheduled time for a quick chat 1:1. It was the interactions with upperclassmen in leadership positions that cemented DS's choice of USMA over USNA. (He had a totally difference experience there on two different trips)
If you do not see your drag lining that up once you get there, I'd ask them to do so.
@hawk: I can private message you if that's better, since I am fearful that that this line of questions could end up morphing this thread into a USNA bash thread, which is NOT my intentions, since I have way too much respect for those at USNA to have it go there.
I am particularly interested in what your DS had for impressions of USNA and USMA that made him choose USMA. I myself am in the exact same situation, with nominations and appointments to both, and my up-close looks at both SAs have led me to USMA as the best choice for me. I'm just curious if your DS's impressions jibed with mine, especially in the nuances of leadership style that I saw at USNA vs what I believe I have seen at USMA.
A FEW MORE DETAILS:
We were entitled to a 4-hour campus tour but declined
I think you would be hard pressed to find a "bash Navy" thread in the West Point section. You have not been a member very long but that's just not how it's done in this part of the forum. West Point stands on its own merits, no need to deride another service academy.
Caveat: This will be controversial no matter what, and opinions will vary.
But you asked, so here's the not so short version about overnite cadet experiences with upperclassmen:
- USNA underclass was afraid of Upperclassmen, did not respect them, nor desire to emulate them. And spent quite a bit of time essentially hiding from them. Yes, broad statement, but also is very much the impression DS was left with from multiple visits/overnights. Which was somewhat confirmed when my wife and I talked with middies (low & upper) on our visits.
- USMA cadet leadership was respected, and left the impression "I want to be like that future officer" after 1:1's. Again, confirmed by our impressions as parents.
Subjective? Absolutely. Sweeping generalization? For sure. Do we see a difference? Yep, based on exposure we had
The other was the overall vibe, which our whole family picked up on. USMA is pretty much totally focused on making the best officers for the Army they can. (Yes, we drank the Kool-aid) It surfaced in teacher/officer/staff attitudes, and we saw the counter example at USNA. Cadets are the focus. You don't see the posturing in USMA staff like you do at USNA (aviators, marines, squids, etc). They spend more time talking about that and emanating Tom Cruise than their mission.
Do I think USNA is a bad school? No, it's not. Do I consider it 2nd to USMA? In the leadership development area I do.
Some will laugh, but I believe some of this is due to proximity to DC, Brass, and the Yacht Club mindset at Annapolis. In comparison, at WP, the only reason to be there is the mission. George Washington stood there (etc), and the mission continued since. You don't get the transient brass as much. Yes, they rotate through, but it's not a pleasure visit from DC.
This is not intended as a "bash Navy" comment, just personal experiences addressing a specific question. And probably more just something that USMA does particularly well compared to the other academies.
I have my overnight in early March. Have not heard anything about details (no email, etc). Should I have heard by now? I realize that I will likely have to call admissions for this, but just in case others are also interested...
I don't recall the option to request upperclassman vs plebe -- maybe that was something to do via the 'comments' section -- but I plan to accept whatever I get since i can see the benefits of both and will simply plan to seek out plebes if I am with a firstie, and vice versa.
Plebes are given by default as candidate escorts while Yearlings escort parents giving them a tour and Cows conduct briefs before the tour to candidates and their parents.
You have the option of requesting any cadet individually to give you a tour. I highly suggest shadowing a Plebe but also to interact with all classes and ask questions to the upperclassmen about their hindsight on the whole experience.
Do I in any way expose my plebe host to issues if I seek out upperclassmen or ask him to do so on my behalf?
Thanks AF. I will follow your advice here. One side concern: Do I in any way expose my plebe host to issues if I seek out upperclassmen or ask him to do so on my behalf? I know there are 'fraternization' limits, but I assume that Overnights work like any EC where such restrictions are set aside. I'll ask my drag/host directly, but would appreciate your take on it.
Edit: Just realized that maybe fraternization does not apply to execution of duties, and hosting me counts as that, so my concerns there are unwarranted.
PS: While not expected, snacks or some kind of treat for your host is always greatly appreciated.