2 for 7 - Not actually 2yrs for 7yrs anymore

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by jacksprat, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. jacksprat

    jacksprat New Member

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    My son just informed me that his commander told him the following last week:

    SWO commitment:
    2yrs - first 2 yrs undergrade
    for
    2yrs - last 2 yrs undergrade
    7yrs - active duty
    2yrs - reserves

    This is actually "2 for 9" or "2 for 11", if you include reserves, not "2 for 7"

    Pilot commitment:
    2yrs - first 2 yrs undergrade
    for
    2yrs - last 2 yrs undergrade
    2yrs - flight school
    9yrs - active duty
    2yrs - reserves

    This is actually "2 for 13" or "2 for 15", if you want to include reserves, not "2 for 7"

    Does anyone have anymore concrete information on this? I would like atually see the legally binding document and review it before my son signs anything? I intend to call tomorrow. Just thought others might have info...
     
  2. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    I don't believe that's correct. My understanding ... 2 yrs. undergrad, 5 years active, 3 yrs. reserves, I believe. For non-aviators, "active duty" commences upon completion of flight school and varies dependent upon platform

    It never really was "2 for 7."
     
  3. jacksprat

    jacksprat New Member

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    Yes. That has always been our understanding, as well. Hence, the shock when he was told differently. Thanks.
     
  4. SteveHolt243

    SteveHolt243 Member

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    Don't call, let your son deal with it himself, he's a big boy now.
     
  5. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    I believe the legally binding document was signed when he entered the Naval Academy.

    Any "2 for 7" document signed at any "2 for 7" ceremony is just that - ceremonious.
     
  6. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Sorry, ceremonial it ain't. It may appear superfluous, i.e. until it gets violated/broken. Then it becomes sorely binding ...and seriously reimburseable with major money

    While neither is pure ceremony, the 1st one's essentially meaningless absent the 2nd. At least in terms of any/all future commitments of time and/or tithes.
     
  7. greeneagle5

    greeneagle5 Member

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    on the other hand....... I was visiting with a mom today after church and she was saying her new Ensign's roommate at flight school ( both USNA '10)just washed out (low grades, I believe) and was released from all further military obligations.....:confused:...possibly another DoD budget trimming program ?
     
  8. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Correction ...I meant to say (fangers don't always listen to my noggin' :redface:) " ..., I believe, for non-aviators. FOR AVIATORS, "active duty" commences upon completion of flight school which varies, dependent upon platform."

    My bad.:thumbdown::rolleyes::biggrin:
     
  9. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    This is nothing new nor infrequent. It's called "getting fired." All bets are off. Some are allowed into other professional communities.
     
  10. MakeItHappen

    MakeItHappen Member

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    Off topic, anyone venture a guess as to what type of discharge the "wash out" would receive?
     
  11. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    It would be very, very likely Honorable.

    You won't see much else for Officers unless they are being discharged for disciplinary reasons.
     
  12. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    First of all, aviators have a longer commitment. My (not too nuanced) understanding is that it's 5 yrs after you pin on your wings. Pilots and NFOs should be well aware of that. Still not a bad deal.

    I believe that the reserve commitment is "Inactive" reserve, meaning that you are unlikely to be called up. Could be wrong about that as I got out at a time we weren't at war.

    Thus, the "2 for 7" refers to the "general" commitment of non-aviators to active duty. If things have changed, I'm sure mids are informed of the new requirements before they commit. And, even if not, welcome to the military. Seriously.

    One final note . . . unlike enlisted, officers serve at the pleasure of the President. Thus, you are never guaranteed of being able to leave the military even when your "commitment" is up or you otherwise want to. 99.9999% of the time, it's fine in peacetime. Probably (and I'm guessing here) 98% of the time during war. But it is something to consider.
     
  13. SteveHolt243

    SteveHolt243 Member

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    Aviators have to do 8 years after winging, all platforms. I think the marines have different lengths for different platforms.
     
  14. osdad

    osdad Member

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    When does the clock start for career calculation? If its true that the months waiting for a slot to open in Pensacola and then flight school do not count, its possible those from the class of 2011 who selected aviation, may not earn their "out" until 2021-2022; fully 5-6 years beyond their classmates. Am I seeing this correctly?
     
  15. SteveHolt243

    SteveHolt243 Member

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    Yes, this is correct. If you choose pilot, your clock starts when you earn wings. In general, this means your commitment is up somewhere between 9-11 years after graduation depending on your luck and pipeline.
     
  16. rotorhd

    rotorhd Member

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    It would be Honorable if it's a straight washout for either academic or aptitude reasons.

    I guess money is tight and it's a sign of the times that "fallen angels" are no longer offered the opportunity to be AMDOs or SWOs. This used to be the case in the early eighties. Seems to me after 4 years of schooling the Navy would want some sort of ROI.:confused:
     
  17. marciemi

    marciemi USMA Alumnus

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    Just curious if the OP found anything new back yet. And Whistle Pig - question for you. I know that it's a big change recently that for WP's incoming classes (and they're looking to possibly also include 2013 and 2014 since they haven't officially committed yet) that it will now be a 5 year commitment and a 3 year Reserve commitment, no longer just the 3 years IRR that it used to be (meaning that most likely you got out after 5 and did nothing). My understanding was that this was new among all the academies but now I'm wondering if the others have already changed. Currently is that last 3 years Active Reserve or IRR? And just confirming that in general, for a non-aviator, etc. it would be a 5 year commitment upon graduation or is that different from WP as well?
     
  18. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    WP:

    HE/SHE May not have seen a RIF (Reduction In Force) if it is determined by DoD. See

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ew-pilots-MoD-writes-300m-spent-training.html

    It can happen here wirh budget cuts. It happened back in the day when they cut all pilot training at the end of VN and poilots in training where out in the middle of nowhere and used to try a new track or select a new offiecr track like Navigator or or other Flight Officer. RIF is a bad thing and they loose a lot of good officers!!!
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2011
  19. CurrentMid

    CurrentMid Member

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    First - I am no longer a "currentmid" but stuck with the name. Commissioned in 2010...

    career calculation and commitment (contract if you will) are two different time clocks.

    For all of us that have to go to "school" prior to getting to our first duty station - be it Nuke power, TBS, flight school - our commitment time starts after we complete such school and get to the fleet which can be outwards of 2+ years. For those caught in the flight school backlog, it will be more like 3+ years so that would put one out at the 11 year mark before they can "leave".

    Our career calculation start from the time of commissioning. I will be promoted at two years from commissioning - I can "retire" at 20 years from commissioning.

    If you are released from say flight school, seals training etc - Honorable. Some are "voluntold" to move to another community, some a choice of other communities or released of all military obligation and some just released from all obligaions. Typically the "choice is not yours" but needs of the Navy. It does not matter what your source of commissioning was - the process is the same. I know of one OCS that was given a choice of two different communities and then a USNA grad who was told thank you very much but you are free to go...
     
  20. marvin7794

    marvin7794 Member

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    I thought the clock for submarine types started at graduation, just like the SWOs. When did they change it?
     

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