60 Minutes on F-22

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by bugsy, May 6, 2012.

  1. bugsy

    bugsy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    0
    If your following the ongoing issues with the F22 life support system you'll want to watch 60 minutes tonight.

    I have a significant problem with the arguments that will be made and now alot about the 2 Air National Guard pilots that will be on camera.

    An unfortunate mis-characterization on a phenomenally capable weapon system.
     
  2. AFrpaso

    AFrpaso USAFA '17

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    635
    Likes Received:
    169
    Definitely agree. I've talked to a few full bird Colonels who had nothing but praise for the F-22. One of them was a USAF Weapons School Instructor Pilot.
     
  3. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,239
    Likes Received:
    272
    I'd say an OBOGS system that occasionally makes the pilot hypoxic is a bit of a problem, regardless of how good the rest of the systems are.

    I've only read the publicly released info, so if I'm off base, let me know.
    Multiple reports of hypoxia symptoms, blood tests showing abnormal toxins in pilot's bloodstreams, and a Class A mishap with a fatality after the OBOGS shut down. What mis-characterizations are you talking about?

    Is the F-22 the most capable fighter in the world? Yeah.
    Does it have a serious issue? It appears so.
     
  4. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,275
    Likes Received:
    607
    Heresy! How dare you speak ill of the golden child?!
     
  5. Bullet

    Bullet Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    99
    I agree with you, there. An OBOGS system that makes a pilot hypoxic would be a bit of a problem. IF that was the problem with the F-22. Over a year of testing the system, with the best engineers in the AF and the aerospace industry analyzing everything down to the smallest gasket, and they have NOT been able to simply state it IS an OBOGS problem (or have been able to specify any one item as the exclusive cause for the issues).

    LOTS of grumbling and speculation from some in those cockpits, though. It should be interesting to watch on 60 Minutes, to say the least...
     
  6. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,275
    Likes Received:
    607
    I'm still interested to hear what the mischaracterization is.
     
  7. bugsy

    bugsy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    0
    Toxins in blood: when we went and looked at the civilian polulation in anchorage we found the same "toxins" at the same levels. Told this to leslie stahl but it didnt make it on air.

    Obogs shutdown: any aircraft that relies on bleed air for cabin pressurization or OBOGS is suseptable to loosing that system in an EP. Its what we train to.

    AF has had 11 unexplained hypoxia cases in raptor in last 2 years the hornet has had triple that rate of unexplained hypoxia cases in last 2 years. Again also shared with Miss Stahl and 60 min.

    Thats only scratching the surface.
     
  8. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,275
    Likes Received:
    607
    So what's your role in this? Were you in the story? Were you interviewed?
     
  9. Bullet

    Bullet Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Messages:
    994
    Likes Received:
    99
    About what I expected from Ms. Stahl. I witnessed a similar act by her 15 years ago when she did another 60 Minutes piece on my squadron commander's fight against his Court Martial. His strategy: deny the affair he was having with the Squadron's Intel Officer, which became a MAJOR distraction for a squadron in the middle of combat, and blame it instead on a "Secret club / Good Ole boy network that didn't like him. She ONLY looked at his side of the story (made him look like a choir boy, with the footage of him playing catch with his son thrown in for good measure), edited out everyone else's side. Needless to say, I'm not a fan of her journalistic style.
     
  10. bugsy

    bugsy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    0
    So what's your role in this? Were you in the story? Were you interviewed?

    Investigator
    No
    Yes

    PM me if you want to discuss.
     
  11. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,275
    Likes Received:
    607
    Interesting...
     
  12. houseeleven

    houseeleven New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just saw 60 Mins story. Approach Magazine had scoop on Hornet in 2010 article... 8 episodes a year and only a third attributed to OBOGS. Compared to Raptor's 11 in 7 months...hmmm.
     
  13. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    444
    I guess if there is a problem and it can be fixed, we need to fix it. Perhaps, go after program officials and/or contractors if they hid the problem, put them in prison and/or fine them.

    Still, what do we do, scrap the F22 program if the existing problem puts pilots life in danger?

    Even a better question is, what value do we place on a Soldier, Airman, Sailor, or Marine's life? Does it matter if we are talking about a general vs. a private or an infantryman vs F22 pilot?

    This reminds me of the 60 minute segement on the Bradley Figthing Vehicle - the program made the Bradley Fighting Vehicle to be a very dangerous vehicle and government contracting gone wrong. My perspective, I was a mech infantry pl and XO, if my Bradley got hit by RPG or enemy tank fire, my chance of survival wasn't high because my Bradley was not a tank. It was a simple physics - Bradley Fighting Vehicle was designed to transport soldiers in the battlefield with some protection and with some fire power, at a relatively cheap cost. I believe first Bradley Fighting Vehicles only cost several million (back in the 80's).
     
  14. bugsy

    bugsy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    202
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just saw 60 Mins story. Approach Magazine had scoop on Hornet in 2010 article... 8 episodes a year and only a third attributed to OBOGS. Compared to Raptor's 11 in 7 months...hmmm.

    Hornet had 8 episodes a year and only a 1/3 attributed to OBOGS. what were the other 2/3 attributed to? Unknown

    Its not the number of hypoxia cases that is the problem, we have a hypoxia case frequently in all airframes and all services, thats why we conduct physiology training. Its the unknown causes that are at the heart of the issue and in that regard the F22 and F18 are similar.
     
  15. AJM7680

    AJM7680 Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2012
    Messages:
    118
    Likes Received:
    0
    bugsy, go back and look at the other 2/3 F-18s. They are not 'unknown', but are issues other than OBOGS. Apparently, the F-22 does indeed have a problem. And what is a bigger concern is that the Air Force knew about it since 2002 and has, until the 60 Minute story, done nothing about it:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...8dda36-087f-11e2-9eea-333857f6a7bd_story.html
    With the lawsuits which will come out of this, I am sure we are about to find out.
     

Share This Page