Admissions Board

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by Sam2018, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. Sam2018

    Sam2018 Member

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    So have they started to meet yet? USMA has sent out LOAs already and USNA sent out the first wave of appointments and a few LOAs as well. Just wondering when we would start to hear anything on this board.
     
  2. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    The army giving out LOA's is totally irrelevant. They've given out LOA's to individuals who haven't even started the application process yet. It's their way. As for the Navy and LOA's, I'm not sure how they do theirs.

    As for the Navy giving out "APPOINTMENTS" already, I can tell you right now, that the ONLY way they've given out APPOINTMENTS, is if those individuals received a Military Related Nomination, such as a presidential, ROTC, MOH, etc. Because, in order to receive an APPOINTMENT, you MUST have a nomination. (Except for the coast guard academy). And MOC's in most places haven't even interviewed yet. Most MOC's won't give out their nominations until at least November.

    As for the Air Force...... I do believe they have started the application review boards. But don't hold your breath for any appointments to come out any time soon. They MIGHT offer some LOA's; usually to athletes, if they are a "TRUE" recruited athlete. VERY COMPETITIVE and sought after by many other schools. (Not like the 90% who are called recruited athletes by name only). It's also true that the air force could give out some appointments. But if they do, as I mentioned with Navy, they would have to go to someone with a MILITARY RELATED Nomination. Because MOC's haven't done that yet, and you must have a nomination in order to get an appointment. And if there are a couple of appointments to some with a military nomination, I can guarantee you that those individuals will most likely be part of the "No-Brainer Club". Meaning, they are above the top 10%. They're above or in the top 1%. These are usually individuals who in the end, will have acceptance letters, and probably scholarships to no less than 5 schools. If you're not sure of the "No-Brainer Club", it's the applicant with the 4.0gpa in the HIGHEST CLASSES available; 32+ACT, class officer, ranked #1 or #2 in the class; 2-3 varsity sports, captain of the team, honor society, numerous other clubs, boy/girl state, 200-300 hours volunteer time, bla bla bla. So, if there will be any appointments now, it's these individuals who ALSO HAVE A Presidential or ROTC or MOH or other military related nomination. This is a rare combination.

    Other than that, the first REAL ROUND of appointments will probably be the beginning of January. It depends when the MOC's get their nominations submitted. Obviously, if a MOC gives a Principal nomination, the academy can give the appointment that same day. Because, unless that individual isn't qualified, the academy has no choice. They MUST give that individual an appointment. But other than those few exceptions I've mentioned, look for January. And I will say the same thing about the Navy and Army. They can't give out appointments without nominations. So unless an individual has a Military Related nomination, and is part of the No-Brainer Club, they probably won't be sending out any "WAVE" of appointments until after November, when most MOC's interview and start giving nominations.,
     
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  3. Sam2018

    Sam2018 Member

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    Oh, they are kids with presidential noms on the USNA side. I know the bulk won't come out until much later, just wondering if USAFA had even started yet :)
     
  4. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    My kids were both recruited athletes. One received an LOA, one did not, with identical scores and grades. Go figure.

    Again, don't count on or even hope for the LOA. No one will care on I-Day, and it will be forgotten on graduation day.
     
  5. HeWantsTheBFE

    HeWantsTheBFE USAFA Class of 2017

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    LOA's are for athletes who might go somewhere else if not promised a slot. Don't worry about when you might hear back, you could be waiting a long time. You've put in your application, it is now out of your control. Relax, enjoy senior year, and don't worry about it. You can't change anything at this point anyway.
     
  6. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    Not always so, HeWants, though it can be true.

    But you are correct: your application is in? You can't change your grades, your SAT, your sports, your leadership, anything.

    Welcome to the roller coaster.
     
  7. Thelaman99

    Thelaman99 Member

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    I also have completed my application. I just want to say good luck to everyone else who is pursuing an appointment and that were all in this together! (cue the song).
     
  8. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    If you worry about LOA's, you'll become prematurely grey.

    I don't care if all the other SA's fill their class with LOA's by January 2017...USAFA is NOT going to do that. When it comes to USAFA, LOA's are rare; they are the exception, not the rule. Forget about them! Build the finest package you can, update it every chance you get and be prepared to hear NOTHING until the middle of March at the earliest.

    Does it s..., yes. Is it a fact? Yes.

    Worry about what you can affect; not what you can't.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Listen to Steve.

    USAFA does not hand out LOAs at a very high rate. If I was to describe USAFA when it comes to LOAs in one word it would be STINGY.

    They are known to be the branch that uses LOA sparingly.

    I have been here for 8 yrs +. I can tell you that even with this new system, I doubt they appoint more than 35% before March.

    I am a broken record on this subject, but here it goes again.
    USAFA appointments are equal to doing a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle without knowing what the picture looks like, yet even though the puzzle will be only 1000 pieces they have 2000+ pieces.
    ~ 1000 pieces = appointments. 2000 = candidates with noms.

    Just imagine how you do that. LOAs and principals are your edges. The rest are going to have to fit in. There will be candidates with 1 nom before hitting the national pool, and others with 4 noms. Do not assume that the candidate with 4 noms will get apptd and the one with 1 will not.

    In the end of the day, and I am sure fencer will agree. Nobody at USAFA gives 2 rats butts at BCT if you were an LOA or not. Plow forward with applying to plan B school and AFROTC scholarship. Assume you will not hear from USAFA until March 7th. If you do than you will not go prematurely grey.
     
  10. Sam2018

    Sam2018 Member

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    I understand USAFA is tight with their LOAs, but I wonder if its best. If you have an LOA to WP but USAFA is your first choice you have a tough choice to make when it comes to ranking your preferences for nominations. You could be giving up a sure thing for a chance, but then to not try for your number 1 is not easy either.
     
  11. Padre101

    Padre101 Parent

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    If my DS was your DS's enviable circumstance, my DS would contact his ALO and USAFA Admissions Coordinator and let them know that he has a USMA LOA, but USAFA is still his number one choice.

    First, USAFA will undoubtedly be impressed that he has a SA LOA already and that will increase his attractiveness as a USAFA candidate. Second, it may be the leverage to squeeze out one of those STINGY LOAs his way.

    Unless, someone can tell me otherwise, I think it is a no-brainer to contact USAFA about your situation.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    USAFA or USMA is 4 yrs of your life, and it is not 24/7/365 days. You get to choose your major.

    AD life is what the AF or Army decides and you will live 24/7/365 for 4 yrs wherever they assign you to.

    Think about that when you rank your noms.

    Anyone that has ever served will tell you ADAF vs AD Army are not the same. Not even close. Investigate the life you will live upon commissioning.
     
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  13. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    You have, as a minimum, 3 nomination opportunities. 2 senators and 1 representative. There's nothing to say that you have to request the same nomination from each of them. But each state is different. Here in Wyoming, you can apply to all 3 nominating MOC's and get a nomination for all 4 of the academies. Air force, Army, Navy, and Merchant Marine. Other states and MOCs have so many applicants, that you have to rank them. But you could ask for army from one, and air force from the other.

    Of course, we are assuming that based on your competition, that you will get a nomination. If you're part of the "No-Brainer Club" or your application is pretty kick butt and you're highly ranked in your school; then you probably will receive a nomination. of course, if all your MOC's talk to each other, and they make it clear that only one of them will give a nomination, in the hopes of getting more people with nominations, then that is an issue. However, they do get to give nominations to all 4 academies. So you really need to speak with your MOC's office. They have an individual who is managing the academy nominations for that senator/representative. Speak to them. Explain the situation. E.g. Sir/Ma'am; I want Air Force as #1 choice, but Army is my #2 and they have already offered me an LOA, which is pretty much a guarantee if I get a nomination. Is there any way I can get a nomination for both air force and army? They are people. They aren't a "System". You CAN TALK TO THEM.

    Each state is different. So asking on this forum, can only get you a certain level of assistance. You really need to speak with your MOC's office. (EACH OF THEM INDIVIDUALLY.) They will have the answers you are looking for. Especially when it comes to multiple nominations to the same academy, or nominations to each different academy. My state is so small, that the MOCs encourage you to apply to ALL of the academies. If you're part of the No-Brainer Club, you can easily get 12 nominations. 3 to EACH of the 4 academies. If you're the average, you could still get probably 1-2 for each academy. Usually the one who doesn't get a nomination to a particular academy, is usually to Air Force because that's where most people around here apply to. But they can easily get one to navy or army. But again, each state, each district, and each MOC is different. Contact them. Mike.
     
  14. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Personally, it is better, as per my previous response, to contact your MOC's office. Air Force will not be impressed that you received an LOA to West point. At least not to the extent of giving you an LOA. Main reason is because the army gives LOA's like candy. Many of their LOA's they give out even before the individual has even started their application. Like back in June, July, August. Air Force knows this. Many of those Army LOA recipients may not even QUALIFY. Remember, an LOA doesn't mean anything if you don't qualify and/or you don't receive a nomination. And I HAVE SEEN individuals with an LOA who DIDN'T receive a nomination; and thus, did NOT receive an appointment.

    In the end, it's the nominations that matter. Not everyone with a nomination will get an appointment, but NO ONE without a nomination can get an appointment. So contacting your MOC's officers, explaining your situation to them, seeing if they'll let you apply to MORE than one academy for a nomination, etc. is what is needed.

    Of course, a lot of this depends on your application. I know it's hard to honestly assess yourself, but you sort of need to. You know if you're going to be one of the BEST applying for a nomination. You know if your GPA, ACT, SAT, Class Rank, etc. is average, above average, or part of the elite. If you're part of the top 10, (Not 10%, but top 10), then your MOCs will have a better chance of letting you apply to more than one academy for a nomination. If you're average, they probably won't. In which case, if you're sitting there with an LOA to the Army, you might want to seriously consider working really hard at getting an Army nomination from your MOC and accepting it. Remember..... in the end....... you are competing against a lot of people for not only the nomination, but also for the appointment. An LOA is a wonderful thing. For their own reasons, the Army gives out a lot of LOA's. The air force doesn't. But remember; for every QUALIFIED PERSON that the air force academy doesn't get as a cadet....... they have 2-3 more just as EQUALLY QUALIFIED.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
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  15. Sam2018

    Sam2018 Member

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    I do think DS plans on talking to the MOC about his situation at the interview. Just one interview with the Rep, the Senators do not interview and I think he will be fine to receive at least two noms but I was kind of talking about in the abstract, other candidates who might be in a similar situation and in VA where you only get one. If I had to honestly assess him I would place him in the elite level for academics, close to that level for ECs and above average for sports, he's not being recruited so those would be the elites I think. But you never know what they want or need any given year.
     
  16. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    When we're talking about elite, we don't necessarily mean recruited athletes. We're talking about applicants, that pretty much, no matter who their competition it, they will most likely get a nomination and an appointment. These are the ones who aren't in a "Top Percentage", they ARE the Top. I.E. of a class of 400, they aren't the top 5%, they are the TOP 5 PEOPLE. Nothing about their application falls into the "Average" category. Sometimes you hear me refer to them as the "No Brainer Club". Basically, offering them an appointment is a "No Brainer". But when I mention "Elite", that is for people to try and assess themselves. If you have to try and calculate it, you probably aren't.

    Even if your son doesn't interview with the senators, there's nothing wrong with calling their office. Simply explain the situation, if factual; not hypothetical; then you have an LOA from one academy, and while you'd be fine with that, you're preference is with another. And that you were wondering if it's possible to apply for a nomination with them for multiple academies? OR, do they require that they can only apply to one.

    It can't hurt to ask. The reps and senators can only nominate 10 names to EACH of the academies. But if they believe you are one of the elite; "No-Brainers" and you will get an appointment with their nomination, they may be willing to allow you to apply for more than one BRANCH of the military for a nomination. Obviously, they may not want you to get 3 nominations to the same academy if they have a lot of applicants; but they may be willing to allow more than one nomination if they are for different academies. Best of luck.
     
  17. Sam2018

    Sam2018 Member

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    I guess I wasn't clear, I was breaking his stats down into three categories, academics, ECs and sports. He is in the top 10 people, not % in a class of 600, National Merit Commended, National AP Scholar, 5s in AP Chem, Physics C, Calc BC to name a few and all 4s or 5s, will have 13 AP classes completed by graduation, 2160 SAT with 800 math, 33 ACT. Boys State, club pres, NHS VP, other clubs and leadership activities, two sport varsity athlete, part-time job year round, maxed several CFA events, above average on the rest, DodMerb cleared. Not sure if that is no-brainer club or not?
    I'll let him know about maybe calling the senators. Thanks
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2016
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Sam are you in VA?

    If so than I would really not expect 2 noms., unless your 2nd nom is Presidential or ROTC. The MoCs talk. Sometimes, a candidate will slip through the cracks and get a 2nd, but it is really a rarity. VA Sens.are known to have @750+ applicants. Thus, if he has an LOA to WP he still needs a nom. There are people that will rank 1 SA on 1 slate as their number 1 and a different SA on another MoCs application as number 1. I.E. Puts USAFA on the Cong. as number 1, puts USMA on the Sen. as number 1. This can be a problem because he may land up only getting the Cong. nom to USAFA. and no nom to USMA where he has an LOA.

    I agree with Mike call them. An LOA does not mean that the MoC will be charged for that candidate. All it means is that if the candidate with an LOA is 3 Qd, than they will get an appointment. In a way it is something that looks positive for an MoC with their constituents. The reason why is they can say that they have 8 out of 10 on their slate that got appointed. However, only 1 will be charged and does not necessarily mean it will be the LOA. The SA can now move them to a different pile, such as the Supes slate. Supes cannot nominate, but can be charged. That move than allows the MoC to have their charge available for somebody else on the slate. Just like if you have a Presidential, and an MoC. It does not mean you will be charged to either. They can take you off the national pool.

    In VA, as competitive as it is to get a nom., many MoCs will see 8 out of a slate of 10 be appointed. Why? Because academically, especially No VA they are competitive on the national level. Fairfax county has a higher budget for their schools than the bottom 8 states in the nation. Yes, you read that right. That county's budget is bigger than some states education budgets. Look at Money, Fortune, Time, etc. when they do their top 100 HSs in the nation. You will always see multiple Fairfax county HSs on the list. TJ (public magnet) has scored so high that some magazines will place them on the private school list because they have to test into the school.
    ~ I remember laughing at one of the lists. They used best sitting SAT, not superscore. This is important to remember because it is 1 time test score compared to multiple. The Fairfax schools on the list had an avg best sitting of 1350 out of 1600. AVG. That means theoretically, the bottom of the test takers scored 1100 best sitting. Not saying 1100 is great, but I would bet my Myrtle (dog) that because SAs and many colleges do superscore that if they can afford to do multiple testings, they could get to that 1350 in time, which is not shabby. Using that premise, now think about it...the 1350 best sitting will probably also do multiple sittings, and get to 1500+.

    I wish you the best. It appears he is competitive.

    Not to take this off topic too much, but make sure he applies for the ROTC scholarships too. Like Mike and Flieger, I have been here long enough to see posters every yr., especially athletic kids get injured in the spring. The Bubble wrap comment is a cliche, but it has truth behind it.
    ~ Let's say your DS plays LAX, which is a spring sport. On his last game May 1, he breaks a bone which puts him in a cast until June 15th, and will need physical therapy for a month after the cast is removed. That places him at July 15th. Too late to go to USAFA. He would be a medical turnback for the SAs. However, because by July 15th he would be good to go, he can now use his ROTC scholarship and move forward academically while he waits to go the following year.
    ~~ There have been posters that played volleyball at their HS graduation party and got injured. There have been posters that tripped getting off the bus at USAFA on day 1 before they take the oath. There have been posters that got mono. All of them had kept in place plan B....ROTC.
     
  19. Sam2018

    Sam2018 Member

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    Thanks Pima, No, we are not in VA anymore but are still in a pretty competitive state (TX). He has applied to ROTC and that is complete as well. Funny, he has tested several times but his scores are best sitting, I guess that's good for ROTC especially :)
     
  20. jebdad

    jebdad Member

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    Sam2018 - I can empathize with where you are on this. My DD applied to USNA, USMA, AFA and CGA. We live in a state where the MOCS communicate and normally only give out one nom to an applicant. So, you better be sure where you want to attend pre nom process in our state. She received an LOA from AFA in October which was before her House of rep deadline for nom paperwork. She had never been to AFA but, after agonizing a few nights, put AFA as her top choice for our state rep. (It was going to be the easier nomination to get). She put USNA for one senator and USMA as the other. We went for a visit to AFA in late November and on the plane ride home, I noticed DD was crying. She had come to the realization that she had blown it. Her visit to AFA sealed it in her mind that she wanted to attend USMA and she was certain she would be without a nomination due to how they do it in our state. Even if she was qualified for USMA her chances were ruined because she would not get a nom.

    We did not contact anyone. Luck, fate, whatever you want to call it, she somehow was nominated by senator as well to USMA. All is well that ends well. She accepted USMA and is a Yuk there. We learned a valuable lesson. The time to figure out and stand with your choice of #1 is before you fill out the nomination application. If you truly are "I'll take whatever I can get" then be prepared for that. We learned that DD had been saying that, but deep down inside it was not true.

    So, our N=1 sample size says that USMA does not hand out LOAs generously. AFA was generous with the LOA. And, the kicker of it all was that DD was not an athletic recruit for AFA or USMA. She would have walked onto her sport at either place. At CGA, she was recruited and would have been one of the most accomplished athletes on the squad. CGA offered her a scholars spot at schools in locales where she would not have even been able to continue her sport. Go figure.
     
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