advice needed... PLEASE! Skip ACT test for MOC interview...

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by crair70, Dec 5, 2011.

  1. crair70

    crair70 Member

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    So DS just received notification TODAY from the MOD that his interview is this Sat at 1:00... unfortunately he is signed up to take the ACT Sat and will not be done until 1PM. He emailed the MOC and asked if he could have a later appointment time and was told an 2pm the latest interview- he will not make it if he takes the ACT plus writting...

    He already has a presidential nom but knows he needs to try for all sources- this interview is very important. BUT... so is trying to get his ACT up one last time- His best scores are 30 math- 26 Eng and was really trying to improve the English especially. He could take the ACT without writing Sat and race to the interview if they are willing to change it to the 2pm. But how focused will he be after taking a 3 hour test all morning?

    What do you think he should do? Skip the writing and go right to interview or skip the entire ACT and have fingers crossed his scores are good enough- He does know he is triple qualified already... if that helps? PLEASE ADVISE!
     
  2. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    I'd go for the MOC interview. If he gets the second nom, that would help.

    It's rare for USNA not to admit someone due to verbal ACT/SAT score unless it's really awful, especially if he has done well in English in h.s. and he has a good rec from his English teacher.

    USNA doesn't care about the writing component. However, I agree that racing to an MOC interview from the ACT might not put your DS in the best frame of mind.

    The above said, there may be other reasons to retake the ACT, including writing -- namely for Plan B.
     
  3. osdad

    osdad Member

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    You might asked the MOC if his/her committee would consider a telephone interview. Many do.
     
  4. futuremid

    futuremid Member

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    Go to ACT. Hurry. And do 2 PM interview. Interview isn't that stressful. If you know YOU, you'll be fine. And I'm sure you do. Mine was between football state game or interview. I moved interview to 8AM and glad I didn't choose phone interview. I received a nomination yesterday.
     
  5. crair70

    crair70 Member

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    Thanks to all who responded. Ds decided to skip Act and go to interview- his Usna admissions counselor responded and said- "get the nom" ... He felt his application was solid and said his focus at this point should be on getting a second nom. Even if he skipped the writing portion he would barely make a 2pm interview- if there was any traffic he would be late! That would not reflect well! and this would be all for the chance that his act score actually would go up...doesn't seem worth the risk! Ds said he didn't think he would be focused on the test knowing his interview was in a few hours and he would be that pressed to make it in time. I don't blame him- I couldn't focus either!

    BTW- when he contacted MOC office they were not flexible at all- Very short and not willing to accommodate him for a later appointment (only needed 30 min later than their last scheduled interview). Felt like there was a fine line between requesting a reschedule and labeling himself as a pain in the ....he asked for any rescheduling options and phone interview was not an option.

    Usna 1985- good point on plan b- he has a NROTC 4yr scholarship already so that is set... He was working on plan C ( just in case he gets hurt) but at this point plan C is not as important as plan A.

    One last consideration...MOC uses the principle nomination method so knowing he is 3q he really has to go in there and knock their socks off! That won't happen if he shows up late!

    Hoping for the best!
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2011
  6. crair70

    crair70 Member

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    Congrats on your nom-Futuremid!
     
  7. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Your DS made the right decision. He can always re-take the ACT another time, if necessary.
     
  8. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Well, the DS has made the decision. Thus beyond edification and education further discussion has little merit. A few thoughts toward those. With a nomination in hand, it seems the ultimate issue now is competing for an appointment. It is always understood that the best course of action is to pursue all possible nomination sources. Conversely, unlike another noted in an odd way, indeed, candidates are excluded regularly for low and marginal standardized test scores, including verbal scores. This candidate has minimal to below minimum verbal scores. And in a year in which applications are already 7% beyond all-time record levels, this could be a very important, marginal issue.

    Second, he cannot "always re-take the ACT..." In fact, while I'm not sure how long it takes to report new scores, there is only one remaining date with any potential for re-taking that exam.

    This situation would concern me, were I advising a candidate on this one, especially with a nomination already in hand. I'd be exploring with that MOC about alternatives. The primary concern here needs to be getting scholastically qualified, and I'd be very concerned that may not happen. Everyone has an opinion. This one's mine.
     
  9. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

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    WP you must of been scanning (very easy to do with so many posts per day) like I do sometimes.

    One of the most important pieces of information was actually in the last line of both posts.

    You heard it from the source....if they say focus elsewhere, they probably have a good idea of where your son stands. Otherwise, the CGO would have said something along of the lines of needing both (nom and better SAT/ACTs).
     
  10. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    I hear you and appreciate that, and as he's made the decision, it matters not. The problem remains even being 3Qed ... All that means is that he is now eligible to compete for an appointment. The fact remains, his verbal score borders on being below the minimum. A better score would serve him well. The personal tragedy here will be if he has a nomination, is 3Qed, but does not gain appointment due to being too low on the WP totem pole.

    Now, if he gains that principal nomination? I surrender. If not?

    Do we know what state we're talking about?
     
  11. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

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    I'd agree with you on everything, including that the MOC committee should be more understanding AND aware of SAT/ACT dates! It's unfortunate both can't be done in this instance.

    However, the Admissions Counselor knows MUCH MORE information than ANYONE on this forum. If he/she says to go capture a nomination, than that is what you should do. Yes, it could potentially be a problem when competing for appointments, but at the same time....the Admissions Counselor would have gave other advice is he/she thought the candidate needed to improve his competitiveness.

    I'm not understanding why you would recommend going against what an Admissions Counselor told a candidate.
     
  12. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    With all respect, USNA admissions counselors are amateurs of sorts. Beyond the director and the civilians, they are temporary. And none have any power or authority to extend an appointment. Of course they have information none of us does. And no matter, let's hope that their experience sheds light well on this. And frankly, you are likely correct.

    But for one thing. We do know that score which is by all standards (unless one of the targeted minority groups) is low. And that he already has a nom albeit not a principal.

    Two things ... I hope I'm off on this one, and I'd gladly eat crow. And where I'm going is why I asked about the candidate's state (and general competitiveness). With a score as such, it might be difficult to garner a principal nomination, especially in a competitve year and possibly a competitive state (who knows?). 2. I'd really want to enhance my status, especially where I know I'm weak that if I do not garner that principal nom I'd like to give my app every chance to move up the line.

    What this does boil down to is simple but not. A principal nom trumping a troubling ACT verbal score. With the former, it doesn't matter. W/out it? Who knows ...

    Again, I'd love to eat crow, and hope I'm all wet.
     
  13. crair70

    crair70 Member

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    The question was specifically directed to his admissions counselor about his ACT scores and any weakness in his application he should work on. Although I am aware a 26 on the English is not fantastic, it converts to a 600 ( was converted by NROTC ) and that is in the middle range according to the 2015 profile. His math is strong (30) and he is glad it is not the weaker of the two. He is ranked 19/423 and 3.94uw gpa. His ec are very strong- class officer for 4 yrs-300+ volunteer hours-2 varsity sports- was told he received max points for his cfa (was thinking of retesting to do a little better on run and was told there is no point as overall score is maxed) invited to CVW- great interview with BGO who said he is his most well rounded candidate.

    Yes- decision has been made (actually it was really made for him being there was no option offered to reschedule or move interview) it is out of his control after his interview and all we can do is hope for the best. If he doesn't get the appointment because of the fact his English score was low then honestly it was not meant to be for him. Thankfully he has a 4 yr NROTC scholorship which will take him to his dream to serve. Wishing for the best!
     
  14. billyb

    billyb Member

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    crair70- best of luck to DS and please let us know the results!
     
  15. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Well, he sounds like a solid candidate, for sure.

    Still, suggesting that a 26 verbal score is in the "middle range" of Mid scores is, well, not accurate and may be a conclusion reached by failing to recognize that all Mids don't fall under the same bell curve in the distribution of scores. Indeed, in recent history, as applicants and candidate numbers have significantly escalated, overall mean test scores have declined. While this is carefully guarded information, it suggests that targeted priority groups are leading to this situation. In other words there are multiple bell curves and the middle range is in reality not the single distribution shared with the public. And thus the middle range is really middle ranges. The one pertinent depends if one is among the priority population or the others.

    Do we know which group this candidate is in?

    And similarly, the competition CAN be (not necessarily WILL be) and most often is quite disparate depending upon state of residency. Idaho and Iowa can be vastly different from Maryland and Virginia.

    There is no intent to disparage or diminish in illustrating this point, but rather to suggest that absent more information, a 26 verbal score can be a long way from one's peer grouping "middle range." Sorta the old story of statistics not lying but not really telling the truth either.
     

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