Advice on Tolerance

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by juliusc16, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. juliusc16

    juliusc16 Candidate Appointee

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    Okay, so most (okay not most) people who have siblings have some form of 'sibling rivalry', but for my older brother and I, there's just the line between doing what's right (me) and doing what's wrong (the other child [brother]). With that said, parents, most of you are prob the same way about not having people over when you, the parent, are out of towm. So my brother comes back home today after hanging out with his friends all night and brought back one of his friends, along with some snacks for himself and his friend and a bottle of vodka, (now mind you, the kid is 18) [and on top of that it's whipped creamed flavor, really?]. So my brother and his friend are talking about having a cookout tonight and yadda yadda to include dinking (apparently more people are coming w/alcoholic (<spell check) beverages) with the intent to participate in sexual activities. My dad has that guilt trip feeling of not being there since he's been deployed majority of our lives (dad's career Army), so once my brother graduated, my dad chose to let my brother stay home (that's a huge NO in my book, but i'm not the parent), so because he won't do anything about it, I told my mom.

    To get to the point, I'm tired of tolerating for this kid, and I know that tolerating is against the Honor Code. Therefore, when more alcoholic beverages are present, and eventually consumed (at my house, not by me) should i go ahead and call the cops (the people consuming are ALL underage). I feel that I should because in the event something happens, I fall under the 'guilty-by-association' expression, and i honestly don't need that before going in to USAFA.

    Thanks!
     
  2. GoSox

    GoSox Member

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    The way the world works you'll probably get arrested if you call the police and they make a clean sweep at your house. Or your parents might get in trouble because the underage drinking is at your house. Why can't you tell a parent and that parent can call your brother and tell him the boozefest/cookout is a no-go? Or talk to your brother and tell him he might be putting you in a bad spot re: USAFA if the party gets busted? Or just go to the movies and stay out of it, if neither of the first two options works?

    I'm no relationship expert, but calling the cops to try to get your brother arrested for drinking while your parents are gone sounds like you are going overboard and the fact that you feel that way suggests you need to work some stuff out with your brother. You sound like the guy with all the good stuff in front of you, given your USAFA appointment -- why are you so resentful toward your brother? (It would be one thing if you were trying to save him from himself but it sounds like you're just mad.)

    When you're at USAFA, a lot of people are going to break regs in a non-honor context and it won't be your job to turn them all in (if you think what they're doing is dangerous, etc., that's a different story).
     
  3. juliusc16

    juliusc16 Candidate Appointee

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    This wasnt the first time that this has happened, and I understand, yes, we do need to work something out :redface:, I do know an adult/parent that can call my brother, but at this point, no matter what I say to him, it just goes in through one ear and out the other.
     
  4. GoSox

    GoSox Member

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    It does sound very frustrating, but you aren't his parent, and he won't be 18 forever -- hopefully at some point he'll stop acting like a knucklehead. Just be careful about doing something that might make it hard for you guys to get on better terms when the time comes. I really would try to get help from an adult first.
     
  5. juliusc16

    juliusc16 Candidate Appointee

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    Thanks! Much appreciated! :smile:
     
  6. LFry94

    LFry94 USAFA C1C '17

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    If you can't find a way to stop the party, then don't be around when it happens. You don't want to get into any trouble with the law or your life will become hell. Doors will close, and it won't be easy getting them back open.
     
  7. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Not sure what "honor code" you're talking about, but everything you listed is, in my experience, a conduct offense.... at an academy..... and illegal elsewhere.

    At CGA you could "condone a class I offense" and be guilty of a class I offense, but that was not the same as an honor concept violation.


    It's your call. You can call them. Or you can stay. Or you can remove yourself from the situation.
     
  8. juliusc16

    juliusc16 Candidate Appointee

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    LineInTheSand, :redface: you are correct, I was thinking of something else and typed the "honor code" instead. Thanks though! My brother did leave with his friend, after explaining to his friend how their actions could affect all of our futures, and just on the integrity aspect alone.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
  9. linkgmr

    linkgmr Old Grad

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    ....Hold on there man.

    Your brother doesn't necessarily have to live by your morals. If he wants to drink and have sex, that's his business, not yours. I guess the main question I have for you is (and believe me, at least at USMA, we get asked this a lot) why? Why do you care about your brother drinking and having sex?
    Because it's illegal?
    There's a huge difference between "toleration" and being a tattletale, mainly that when you're forced to consider turning in a classmate or (in my case) a subordinate on honor, you have to think long and hard about what you're about to do because if you make the wrong choice the honor system leaves no room for "reasonable doubt". If the jury is 51% sure that a cadet has lied/cheated/stole/tolerated, the kid gets found, and it's possible that you just ruined an innocent person's life. Being a tattletale is something you do for attention, because you want to get someone in trouble. And what you're describing sounds a whole lot more like being a tattletale to me.

    That being said, if you think they're going to do something that's going to hurt someone else in some way, then go ahead, stop them/report them to the proper authorities. But if they're just going to get drunk and engage in premarital sex, let them be. It's part of growing up.
     
  10. juliusc16

    juliusc16 Candidate Appointee

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    I Understand

    Thank you.
     
  11. linkgmr

    linkgmr Old Grad

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    I'm not usually this preachy, I swear. It's just I used to be in your position, and my little sister was even younger than your brother is, and I know where this thing goes if you push it too far. For all the effort you put in, it's not worth it.
     
  12. juliusc16

    juliusc16 Candidate Appointee

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    It's Good

    It's all good, and I understand enough to drop the situation for the time being, but it's just one of those things that I'll probably never understand. Sent you a PM.
     
  13. SamAca10

    SamAca10 Ensign - DWO

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    Here at CGA we talk about using your "chain of command"

    In this case, your brother is a peer. Have you talked to him about it? Have you actually sat down and had a discussion on what he's doing and how it's negatively impacting you?

    If he doesn't care and is being inconsiderate, and endangering himself and others, I think it would be a good idea to talk to your parent about it. Use some common sense and work it out. That's always been proven to be the best way of handling these type of things.
     
  14. billyb

    billyb Member

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    You are not his parent. Let him know that you are concerned about what he is doing b/c it is bad for him. If he still goes through with it then go spend the night at a friends house; don't be anywhere near it.

    Your in a tough situation, but don't fracture your family relationship by calling the cops.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I agree with billyb.

    It is not your place and calling the cops can have results that will cause financial hardship on your parents.

    If they issue a citation, your parents will hire an attorney for your brother. This is not cheap, it is a lot of money.

    In VA and NC there is a 0 tolerance law for underage drinking. Licenses are immediately revoked and sometimes until they turn 21.

    Our close friends DD at 19 drank underage, lost her license for a yr. When it was reinstated, her car insurance jumped to 10K a yr (USAA). Her folks had to absorb the cost for the attorney, the fine, drove her everywhere for a yr., and than got the 10K bill for insurance. Her BAC was 0.08, 21 and over it is 0.8 level to be considered under the influence.

    If I were you, talk to your folks, be brutally honest and tell them you will not be a babysitter when they are away and will leave the home to protect your future.

    I am not implying they think of you as a babysitter, I am inferring that as parents we talk, and maybe this fact will be something that shocks them to their core and makes them reevaluate your brother.

    Bullet and I have 3 children, and I swear to you that they are all different, and just like you, they beeacch about their siblings, and in their mind they never got away with anything, but the siblings get away with murder. They never placed in the equation our course of action was because they were different people, and thus, needed to be treated like the individuals they are.

    Eldest is 22, middle is 20, youngest is 18. Now they are getting it.

    As a parent, you don't want to go down this road because there will be no trust, no friendship in the future.

    Boyfriend/Girlfriends/Spouses may leave you
    Parents will die
    The only thing you have from cradle to grave is your siblings.

    Think about that.

    As a parent, my proudest accomplishment is not them attending college. It is they are now friends. They call and text each other. They use their own life hardships to lift the other one up when the other one is down.

    Your opinion believe it or not will matter more than your folks in a yr or two, because we all know parents were born in the stone age, and can't get it.

    Part of being an officer is being a leader, a counselor to young troops. This is excellent training for you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2012
  16. juliusc16

    juliusc16 Candidate Appointee

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    Thank You

    Pima, billyb, and SamAca10:

    Again, thank you.:redface:
     

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