AFROTC changed my GPA?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by theagentofchaos, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. theagentofchaos

    theagentofchaos Member

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    Hello everyone.

    I got a couple of emails earlier today from the person handling my AFROTC Scholarship Application. I submitted everything- transcript and counselor forms included- in June, and hadn't heard anything from AF since. However, in this series of emails, I was asked some troubling questions.

    First, I was told that the GPA submitted by my counselor had been "recalculated" on a 4.0 scale (my school uses a 100-point scale) and deemed to be a 3.67. This is grossly incorrect: as the application states, A = 4.0, and I have never posted any grade lower than an A in the duration of my high school career. On the merit of this, my counselor stated on the form that I have a weighted GPA of 104.87 and an unweighted 4.0, (not sure why she switched from a hundred-point scale to the four-point scale, but there it is).

    Then, a second email was sent to me a couple of minutes later, asking for a key from my counselor to describe what numbered grade correlates to an A, B, C, D or F in my district's standard.

    I'm more than a bit worried that it has taken this long for this portion of my application to be 'corrected', and even more concerned that my GPA has been maimed as a result of whatever misunderstanding seems to be playing out. I didn't run into this issue with Navy. Has anyone experienced this before? Any advice you would offer?
     
  2. bandad

    bandad Member

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    I am not the best person to answer this question, but here is a thought. I believe the SA's adjust candidate GPAs per high school ranking/profile. Maybe someone can speak to this for ROTC scholarships. That being said, it is a little hard to comprehend, even with an adjustment, the magnitude of the drop in your GPA. Best of luck!
     
  3. Cadet '15

    Cadet '15 New Member

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    If you have strait A's you should have a 4.0.

    An A is worth 4.
    B is worth 3.
    C is worth 2.
    D is worth 1.

    Add all the numbers together and then divide it by the number of classes. But like I said, If you have all A's you have a 4.0.
     
  4. pveldkamp12

    pveldkamp12 New Member

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    I dont mean to pry or anything, but I'm just curious as to what you scored on the physical fitness test/ ACT. I was wondering how other people did who actually submitted their application. If you dont wish to share thats fine...just curious
     
  5. theagentofchaos

    theagentofchaos Member

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    My thoughts exactly. I wrote to inform her of this; I just hope that things are sorted out quickly.

    This may very well be the case. Having forgone the SAs, I'm rather oblivious to the grade evaluation policy followed by AFA. Even still, I'm as confused as you are with regard to the drop. I just don't see any numbers on my transcript that would lead her to reach this new figure. Almost wonder if I've been mixed up with another applicant.

    I suppose I shouldn't have said 'all components'; I've yet to be interviewed or submit my fitness marks. I have to wait until the school year begins to find someone who would proctor the test. I haven't taken the ACT, but I did take my first SAT last November. I earned a 2290 (800 CR, 690 MA, 800 WR), and haven't tested again since.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    The AFA and AFROTC both will re-scale your gpa to their profile, just like a traditional college.

    An A for you may be 4.0, an A for my kids can be as low as a 3.6 to a 4.5.
    They take the actual % multiply by the weight. A std is a 4.0 weight, AP is 4.5 in our school district.

    So if you get a 90 which is an A, and it is in a std. course the wgpa is 3.6
    If you get a 100 in AP, it would be 4.5

    That is why they want to have the counselor's "key" because it will tell them what the scale is.

    If you went that an A - or an A + is given the same weight you would have 4.0, but that is not their system.

    They are also going to look at the amount APs to see the rigor of your course load.

    It is actually not uncommon to see gpas change for them because they need to balance everyone on the same scale, yet, go school to school and their scales vary. In NC, at our old school an A was 93+, with honors weighing 4.5, AP 5.0. Our new school in VA is 90+, and only APs get weighted at 4.5.

    You can easily see that they would need to come in with their own system and reweight, especially since 1 school does not even weigh honors, but has the traditional std., honor, AP, IB and AICE choices.

    The additional thing they look at as far as your transcript, is the school profile. How many go Ivy, 4 yr, 2 yr, and nothing. This shows how competitive your school is from a higher education perspective. If your class rank is 15%, but 45% go IVY, that is great for you. If you rank is 15% and 0 go Ivy, that is not so great for you.

    When they say Whole Candidate, they mean Whole Candidate.

    A 3.41 is low, but they may re-evaluate it after seeing the school profile. It is also something I would not go insane over, because your SAT will be taken into account and that profile will be taken into account. Go back to my class rank remark...it may simply mean that your school in their opinion (key words... their opinion) over inflates grades.

    If you want to see how big it can sweep, go and look at the bottom of your SATs. There should be the schools that you had emailed scores to listed there. You will see that your gpa may fluctuate from school to school. The reason why is college board has re-weighted gpas for those schools using their admission scale. Our DS's varied 0.25 between his 5. 1 of them that matched his actual school gpa was the AFA. (FWIW, he attended a school that had 7 pt. scale for A and 4.5 for AP)

    Good luck.

    P.S. there is no need to re-take the SAT, that score is very strong overall, the only weakness would be the 690 on M, since @ 85% go to tech majors. However, due to the AFROTC system not superscoring, you may be risking it if you did take it again by not getting a 1490 again.

    Personally, I would say take the ACT, because some kids do better and AFROTC will take the best score from either. So if you got a 34 or 35 on the ACT, that would beat out the 1490 on the SAT. DS had a 1390 SAT, but a 34 ACT. They took the ACT as part of his PAR.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2011
  7. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Excellent explanation PIMA. A lot of schools go through this same headache each day. How do you compare the student with a 4.0gpa, taking "normal" state required classes, with the kid who has a 4.0gpa in the IB program or the student with a 4.0gpa and most of their classes are AP classes???

    When my son graduated high school, there was a student who thought they should be like the valedictorian or close because he was a 4.0gpa student. Unfortunately, all of his classes for 3 years of high school, were the state required classes with the traditional 2-3 electives each year. He was upset that a couple of people with a 3.95-3.98gpa were ahead of him on the class ranking list. But these students had all the more difficult classes.

    So not knowing what classes you took; or what the numeric scores are for each grade, it's hard to tell if changing your GPA is correct or not. Remember; the Air Force has to take applicants from 20,000+ high schools around the country; add all the private and home schooled; mix and match every possible grading standard; with each school offering only certain classes; and somehow find a common denominator. It's like mixing apples and sneakers, and coming up with a Fuel injector. Definitely get your school to provide the information needed so they can accurately compare you to all others. best of luck.... mike....
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Mike,

    I think this is the biggest thing HS SRs will learn in the college application process.

    They really do think that a 4.0 with no APs makes them more competitive against the 3.7 with 10 APs when it comes to school admissions.

    We see it every yr on these forums, where kids will say I have a 3.8 gpa or I have a 4.25 wgpa, but they don't realize is that what is looked at is not the score, but how the score was created.

    Honestly, it would probably be best if they wanted to be chanced to do:
    1. % class rank
    2. # of APs
    3. School profile of how many go to Ivy, 4 yr, etc.
    4. SAT
    5. gpa

    Notice I put GPA at the bottom, as Mike stated it tells us only your school, and nothing from a national perspective. AFROTC selection is done on a national selection, it is not the college, nor is it the area you are coming from like the AFA. The kid from AR competes against the kid from NY.

    For the candidates, it is also important to understand that the gpa and the SAT both matter. A high gpa, but a low SAT (@1200) will hurt you just as quickly as a low gpa and a high SAT.

    For educators it sends warning signs.
    ~~~ high gpa: Grade inflation or book smart, but test anxiety. Do they have the academic foundation?
    ~~~low gpa: Smart, but coasting. Will they be able to buckle down in college when there are so many more options for fun than in HS?

    College success is built on having the best of both scores. Take 3 kids which one would you select if you could only offer to 1:

    A. 3.2 gpa; 1460 SAT
    B. 3.6 gpa; 1400 SAT
    C. 4.0 gpa; 1300 SAT

    Most would take B. They weren't the best in either categories, but they had balanced both from an academic perspective, thus, the least riskiest with the highest chance of succeeding in college.
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Agent just to clarify for you some issues.

    To them you have @ a 92% avg overall. On a 10 pt scale, you have an A avg.

    They are looking to see if it is 10 pt or 7 pt scale. On a 7 pt scale you would have a B+ avg, since an A- is 93. If I recall correctly, they go by a 7 pt scale, or at least they did when our DS went through the process (he is now a rising SR in AFROTC)

    The 104 wgpa comes from the fact that you must have taken at least some APs, and that is how it is over 100.

    I need to apologize, numbers were flying and I read too fast. For some reason I had you at 3.41 gpa.

    I would say you are an insanely strong candidate even with a 3.67. Don't fret it academically.

    Fret now the other 40%. The PAR is only 60%. PFA, ECs, recs, interviews make up the other 40%.

    If you have nothing on your resumes except academics, and boff the PFA, you place your chances in jeopardy.

    Do the math... get 100% on PAR, but only 70% on the rest and you are now at 88 percentile. Only 5% go Type 1. It will place you in Type 2.

    Keep repeating WHOLE CANDIDATE.

    Also, remember 95% of SA candidates will apply ROTC scholarship. So if you are looking to chance yourself, look at the AFA threads too.

    I really do believe you have a great shot from academics, but now it is going to be about the other 40%.

    Do you have athletics? BSA? Eagle Scout? CAP? JROTC? Leadership positions?

    Understand, when I say ECs, at a 3.67 gpa, I am taking for granted you are NHS. What I am asking was the level of participation. NHS member is one thing, NHS VP is another.

    I am not going to lie, athletics is a big deal. Many times the CFA score will illustrate athleticism, but the reason athletics is looked upon with high respect, is due to the fact that it shows dedication for multiple yrs. It illustrates that you can handle time management by playing a sport and retaining high grades. It allows the board to see you are not all about academics regarding your personality. It also shows "team" building.

    BSA/Eagle also illustrates that too, and I don't want people to believe that being an Eagle Scout is not a huge feather in their cap. Anyone who has received that award knows this is not handed out lightly.

    Good luck, and I hope that my post allows you and others to review their packet to make sure there are no "holes".
     
  10. theagentofchaos

    theagentofchaos Member

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    Thank you to everyone who responded. We got everything hammered out- my GPA has been adjusted to a 4.0, and all is well. Thank goodness for prompt email checks on AF's end :)
     
  11. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    Pima,

    I think she has the whole candidate pretty well covered as her first post covers that...

    http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?p=172583#post172583

    I think if she doesn't get a scholarship, I'm going to be scratching my head.

    Best of luck, Agent. :thumb:
     
  12. BillSL

    BillSL USMA Class of 2016

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    Haha, I'm amazed at these grade systems.

    At my school, I had 2nd highest GPA at 9.07 (out of 10). Highest was 9.13 (out of 10).

    How is it even possible to get "A" on everything without the grade being curved or GPA weighted? Just curious!
     
  13. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Nicely done!! Good for you for staying on top of your own application and taking the extra step to make an appropriate phone call to the correct source - good luck in your quest, I'm sure you will go far! :thumb:
     
  14. MorganC

    MorganC Prospective

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    Work REALLY hard in classes and get A's on every assignment
     
  15. BillSL

    BillSL USMA Class of 2016

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    Okay. Are you suggesting people at my school do not work hard?

    I mean, it is simply not possible to score 10 on everything. Did that happen very often in your school?
     
  16. MorganC

    MorganC Prospective

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    I have a friend who has had a 100 in every class she has taken throughout high school. I have no idea how she did it except for spending hours and hours every night. I had a steady mix of A's and B's.
     
  17. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Which brings us back to the WHOLE Candidate.

    If all your friend did was study, 40% of their score would be a min. number and overall weaken their chance for a scholarship since they would be seen as only academic.

    You on the other hand of a mixture of A's and B's, but hopefully you also have in there EC's, such as sports, jobs and volunteer work, Thus, showing them the following:

    1. Team work (even in a solo sport...i.e. swimming, you also work with a team).

    2. Time management ---able to maintain strong grades and have an outside life

    3. Life skills --- socialization.

    Bill,

    I do see your point, to maintain a 100% all 4 yrs is darn right hard, but as CC and I have stated school systems vary alot,, in your school they may hold hard and fast to 100 = perfection. This is easy for courses like Math, or Science, however it becomes harder when you get into the English areas. Some teachers will give a 100 because it is the best paper they have
    read, some will say it is the best, but not a 100 for this particular student and down grade. These classes are subjective from teacher to teacher.

    I have seen kids graduate with a 100%, but as Morgan stated school was their entire life. They weren't doing the homework assignment on the bus to school. They were the kids that did 4-6 hours of homework daily. By doing so they had nothing else in their life.

    As an ex-teacher those are the students I worried about. Mainly due to the fact that they have a higher risk of burn out. Or when they get to college it is an overload for them, and place more stress on themselves when they get that 1st B. This is why some Ivies do not give grades for freshman, just P/F. They know that for many it would be their 1st B, and for some they take that as failure. Add in stress of living away for the 1st time, and making new friends, you have now created the perfect storm.

    Good luck to all. Just remember nobody expects you to be Einsteins, we expect you to give 100% of your abilities.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011

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