AFROTC "Priority" Scholarship Selection

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Tgun, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. Tgun

    Tgun Member

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    Good day to all;

    Was curious as to what this statement truly meant:

    "Electrical Engineering, Computer Engineering, Meteorology, Nuclear Physics, and Nuclear Engineering are highly desired majors for AFROTC cadets. Scholarship applicants selecting these majors might receive priority in the scholarship selection process.".

    1) Does an AF ROTC Scholarship applicant (High School) receive extra "points" on their package if they chose one of these high-demand college majors?

    2) What impact does it have on the scholarship selection? Are they awarded at first board?

    3) Does it affect the Scholarship Award (4 year vs. 3 year, Type I/II vs. Type 7, etc.)?

    I am not advocating applicants pick one of these majors just to increase their chances, but if they already have an interest in pursuing one of these majors, then why not go for it and paint themselves in the best light possible.

    Thank you for the input.

    :smile:
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    One reason not to go for it is that many candidates have a career goal, some of them want to fly.

    If you go that major you risk the chance of not getting a rated slot. It is considered a critical field, thus the AF will need them for those fields. Many candidates opt engineering for reasons you questioned. They only come to find out like AFROTC13 where EEs were not selected for the rated boards. Why? Afterall, they entered in 09 thinking engineering was the track to get that pilot slot. They never thought that their major impacted their AFSC. It does. When DS entered in 08, and AFSC came about there were kids that entered with a critically manned field for the "priority" scholarship. They got the scholarship, but were in shock when they were informed that they couldn't apply/submit for the rated board because their degree was a critical field.

    1. @80-85% of all scholarships go to tech majors, thus they get an edge. Not only for scholarships, but also for SFT and AFSC when it comes to their cgpa.

    2 & 3.
    ~~~They are not awarded 1st, or at least I never have seen any proof that they are awarded first. It is a First In First Out situation. Some are re-boarded, but you get my drift. It is a queue.
    ~~~The difference is Type 1 is only 5% of all scholarships, 95% of that 5% goes tech. Type 2, is 15-20% and 85% of those go to tech majors. Type 7 is 75-80% and 75% of those scholarships go to tech.
    ~~~~~ So yes, statistically it does matter if you go tech or non-tech.

    In yrs past this was akin to how the Nursing major goes. They knew it was a critical manned field, that they placed their degree into the equation for scholarships and SFT selection. Their goal was to commission more nurses than had been in previous yrs.

    The other and BIG reason to re-think this idea is if AFROTC offers a scholarship for any of those majors in specific, if you decide you don't like this field after a semester or two and are on scholarship, you must get their approval to change your major if you want to keep the scholarship.

    Kids enter thinking because they like Physics, and Math that they will like Engineering. They don't realize that engineering is intense. The joke at VT is the registrar sets up desks during fall finals outside of the engineering building because so many students change majors after their 1st semester.

    You are correct you are painting the best picture, but now the question is how is easy it to fix the painting when you notice the mistakes you made earlier?
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
  3. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    If you are already interested in the field then I say go for it. Do not let the deciding factor in your major choice be that you will get "bonus points" because, should you receive a scholarship, what will be your motivation for sticking with it when the going gets tough? Last year when I was applying I the "priority major list" for AFROTC HSSP was different than the one this year. My major, Nuclear Engineering, wasn't on there and I wasn't quite sure the Air Force would even be interested in a Nuclear Engineer, but I chose it anyways.
    I'm also doing the Chinese ROTC Flagship Program. It's alot of work, but so far I love it. There is a trade off though. If you do something like this, it would be extremely hard to also go for a pilot slot. Luckily I have never had any interest in flying so I am ok with this. But, if flying is something you feel passionate about, you might have to sacrifice taking on an interesting/challenging major and take a less challenging major in order to give yourself the best chance to fulfill your dream of flying. That doesn't mean you need to settle for a "soft" major, just go for something that won't take up most of the energy you'd need to put towards getting a pilot slot.

    When you are deciding, however, just be sure you know yourself well enough to know how you will react when you reach your breaking point. Some ppl fold to the pressure and switch to a path with less resistance and some ppl pull themselves together, put their noses to the ground, and press on. There is no shame in knowing your limits and it is best to learn them before you start so you can avoid wasting your time and money.

    Do a little soul searching, see what the ultimate goal is. Good luck to you:thumb:
     
  4. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Interesting. I can understand how a person who wants to serve and isn't interested in flying would enter Army, Navy, or Navy-Marine Option ROTC, but I'd never considered that someone who doesn't like flying would choose Air Force ROTC over the other two. Why did you choose AFROTC over the other two? Is it the lifestyle differences while serving (i.e. Air Force is at home base a lot more than Army or Navy?) I see you're interested in Nuclear Engineering. Does Air Force have something different from what is available upon commissioning in the Navy?
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Non Ducor Duco

    Was it your intention to insinuate that rated cadets are in a less challenging major? Pretty sure if you said that to your FCC or CWC(C300/400 going rated) there would be some heated arguments.

    Please re-read that portion, and ask yourself did you just slam the AF and the academic quality of their pilots? IMPO you did. Sacrifice, less interesting/challenging and settle academically to become a pilot aren't positive terms in the context you placed.

    Here is the AFSC rating weights that the board will use for rated boards. FWIW, rated includes Pilot, CSO, ABM and UAV. You rank them out in your order of preference.

    RSS-20%
    CGPA-10%
    PFT-15%
    FT-15%
    PCSM-40%


    Back on topic.

    You are accepting this path when you state this is my major.

    Again, as I said before you take that scholarship and hate EE, want to change your major, you need AFROTC HQ's approval. Don't get selected for SFT because you are only squeaking above the 2.5 cgpa regs for the AFROTC, you are dis-enrolled.

    Now what?

    AF commissioning is gone, so is the scholarship. Can you and/or your folks afford to keep you at that college?

    That's the rub. It is the Devil in the fine print. You are told all you need to do is maintain a 2.5 cgpa for your scholarship. It never addresses SFT and if not selected what happens.

    They don't tell you that the cgpa avg for Tech majors is in the 3.1 range.

    They are also not stating for 1000% that you take these majors you can't apply for pilot.

    The cynic in me, is saying look at what they are not saying along with what they are saying before you take this leap.

    Take the time and start looking through these boards because they are littered with the What IFs that turned into What NOW?
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    dunninla,

    Did your child only apply to one branch? What is their career field goals?

    Curiosity trying to follow your premise in the question.

    Not trying to flame or be antagonistic, just trying to grasp why you can't see a fly the desk cadet select AF over the others if your child doesn't want to drive a tank, or fly a helo, but instead be in a support position and opt Army over AF.

    Just trying to see where you are coming from, that's all.
     
  7. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    Pima,

    No that is absolutely not what I was trying to convey. I mean't no disrespect to pilots whatsoever. I know ppl going for pilot slots that chose a major like business or Music because they knew themselves well enough to know that they would not be able to handle going into engineering while pursuing a pilot slot, there are others too who are simply more interested in liberal arts or international relations verses tech & science. I also know that there are several AE & Civil E majors going for a pilot slot who chose challenging majors because of their interest in them and their confidence in their own abilities to handle to pressure. I was saying the poster should be sure, when making a decision like this, to make an effort in finding out what kind of person they are. There is no shame in choosing a relatively less challenging major over a notoriously rigorous one based on A) you're interests, B) how well you think you'd handle the material, and C)you're ultimate goals and how they may be hindered. Not saying that all cadets going for rated slots are in less challenging majors. (I've met more rated hopefuls in Tech majors, but there are also many non-tech.) People have many different reasons for choosing certain types of majors over others, I was just advising the poster to think long and hard about whether or not their reasoning for choosing XMajor over YMajor will hold up when the going gets tough. For example, I considered 2 or 3 of the Majors listed on last year's "Major Priority List" but thought about it and came to the conclusion that, while they had peaked my interest, I personally would not have been able to find the motivation to stick with either of them when the going got tough. I knew the reasons I had compiled then were not solid enough to get me through, especially since the deciding factor would have been "bonus points" for my scholarship package.

    I mentioned the tradeoff because doing what I am doing WHILE going for a pilot slot would be suicide. There just aren't enough hours in the day to pile on the intense work load that pilots have. There is alot of time, effort, and energy that goes into into doing what they do and I have alot of respect for them. If I happened to be interested in being a Pilot, then I know that I, personally, would have to give up something for that dream. A different engineering major perhaps, or quitting the Language Flagship Program. For some ppl, a tradeoff is necessary. For some ppl, it is not. The ones that take a tradeoff are by no means less intelligent or weak, they simply were wise enough to take the best path for them. I was simply trying to advise the poster to do some soul searching, be honest with him/herself and try to get a good idea of what that path may be.

    Dunnila,

    There was one thing that was in the front of my mind when I was applying: My desire to be an Officer in the United States Air Force so I only applied for the AFROTC HSSP. The decision was personal and based on many things, though being in a tank/boat/airplane played no factor in it. To clarify, I was not saying that I didn't like being on an airplane, I would certainly jump out of a perfectly good airplane if the AF told me to :shake:, I was saying that I have never felt the desire to be the one flying the plane. I always knew I wanted the military to be a part of my life and was actually trying to decide between Air Force and the Marines but something about the Air Force really resonated with me and I felt that it was a calling. I never considered the Navy's Nuclear program because at the time I was still hadn't decided between my top 3 engineering choices and knowing that now still does not make me want to go into the Navy. I agree, it does sound like an odd combination. But I wanted to pick something that I was interested in doing once(God willing) I have been afforded the opportunity to serve and then eventually retire. I didn't think the AF had any job related to Nuclear Engineering, but it turns out that they are concerned with Nuclear maintenance and deterrence among other things which is more than I had thought. If I get to use that degree in the AF then great! If not, I'm ok with that. All it'll mean is that I'll be living one dream at a time instead of having them all at once.

    Tgun,

    Bottom line. If you're interested in one of the Engineering/tech majors and it is really what you want, go for it. But if the deciding factor is a perceived edge for getting a scholarship, I ask that you consider how well your reasons for choosing that major will hold up when you are approaching your stress threshold and begin questioning why you did it in the first place. Know whether they are solid enough that reflecting back on them when you're down will give you strength and motivation necessary to keep going because reasons based on temporary, not long term gain, will not be there when you need them most.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Non Ducor Duco,

    I still don't follow you because as a cadet the only time you may have more of work load is your fall semester 300 because you would be studying for the TBAS, but still if you are great with time management you would use the summer prior to that fall to study, and the fall as just refreshing the info prior to the test.

    I am sorry, but I have never heard that AFROTC cadets going rated have an intense AFROTC work load compared to non-rated. Yes, as UPT students at a UPT base they have an intense work load. 30% of IFS students bust. The remaining 70% go to UPT where traditionally another 30% bust. The thing is their job is not to be an engineer in the AF. Their job is to be a student at UPT.

    I am not disagreeing with your premise to think long and hard about your career choice. You want non-rated and that is great you know what you want. I am disagreeing with your premise that the rated cadets have a larger load to carry than a non-rated cadet in AFROTC.

    I hope you will give examples of how rated cadets have a larger work load than non-rated in your det. It is important to share this with other posters so they get a realistic picture of AFROTC as an engineering major going rated compared to going non-rated.

    I still stand by my premise of:

    If you want to go rated, and take this path, expect the result to be that you will not be eligible for a rated path.

    I don't think it is an academic balance aka work load regarding chances. I think it is these majors are deemed by the AF as critical manning. They aren't going to release you for UPT regardless of how stellar your records are, they need you in that AFSC.
     
  9. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    Pima, I am referring to the amount of training and flight hours someone going rated must complete later on, I highly doubt that there is an extra workload placed on them by the detachment itself. An alumnus of the det. (AE major) with such a high score that he was able to chose what pilot position he wanted came back to recount his experiences and to give cadets interested in flying a better Idea of what they'd be doing. Can't remember specifics, but he talked about how if he wasn't flying he was studying and used the remaining odd moments to work out. Said flying all the time may sound fun right now, but it can be really taxing doing 2, sometimes 3 flights a day at Xtraining facility(he apparently went to several different ones, all or most of them after commissioning I believe) and then have to study into the night for the classes they had to take as a part of their training. You have to know how badly you want it. I am by no means well versed in the subject, I am merely recounting the experiences and advise we were given by ppl who have been there done that and those still going through it (like the POC pilot selects, our Det head(Lt. Cln, Pilot), and the det alum).
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Non Ducor Duco,

    Please re-read your posts. I see a lot of back peddling

    Those are your words. Unfortunately the OP is assuming that you or I know the system. I will leave it to the OP to make the decision.

    In the end the fact is you don't want rated, but you are also gave an illusion to posters and lurkers that as a cadet it would be more demanding for rated as an AFROTC cadet, when the reality it isn't!
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  11. cravius

    cravius Member

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    First off, you used one of those quotes twice. Secondly, I think what the they were getting at was how the workload of an engineering major might affect other aspects of college life (EC's, GPA, Ect.) that directly relate to getting a rated slot. Again, AFROTC is not my area of expertise, just trying to interpret what Non Ducor Duco was getting at.
     
  12. Moosestache

    Moosestache Member

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    Making field training is very competitive as is getting a rated slot. My understanding is they look at whether or not you have a technical major, then rate you, for field training anyway, based on your gpa, pt scores, and your activity in rotc,(commander ranking etc), more or less that covers it, it is too late to change those SAT's at this point.

    If you have a very difficult major and you do very well in it then you are fine. If you pick a difficult major and those a's become b's, and maybe a c slips in, the question quickly becomes, would you have been better off in a different major where those b's and c's would have all been a's.

    If you are forced to spend lots of time studying to keep those a's, more than you might have with a different major, will you have time to train for your pt tests? Will you have time to go to the weekend paintball game with the other cadets? Will you be able to put the time into ROTC that will truly make you stand out?

    That is why your major matters. Then throw in that if flying is your goal, some majors will have a good chance of preventing you from becoming a pilot, it sure seems to me like that major choice really matters.

    Lots and lots of kids in ROTC never make it to field training, lots of those that do, don't get rated, and lots don't get pilot slots. If your true goal is to become a pilot, then I would certainly take all of that into account when you decide what major you want to choose.
     
  13. dlee96

    dlee96 Member

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    So if I were to apply for a Business major, what would the %'s be (for A/N/AFROTC)? Would it something similar to 5% of 5% of the total national scholarships?
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    AFROTC considers business a non-tech major, so yes it would be part of that 5% of the 5% for a Type 1.

    To add onto Moose's post. College is about balance, and they have a point about if you are barely treading water academically how it can become an emotional drain that will impact other parts of your life.

    When you visit the dets. during your school visit ask them to let you talk with some cadets, especially the ones that are either tech if you are going tech or non-tech if that is your choice. The more informed you are about everything including academic programs from people that are there now, the more comfortable you will be with your decision.

    Good luck.
     
  15. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Pima addressed the AFROTC.

    Can't tell you about the NROTC.

    For AROTC the Business Major won't matter much at all.
     
  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    From what I recall NROTC is like AFROTC 85% of scholarships go to tech majors. Business would not be considered tech.

    Overall, AFROTC offers @80% to Tech, the majority of non-tech go to Type 7. Type 2 it is about 15% for non-techs. That's one thing to understand compared to A/NROTC. AFROTC scholarships are tied to the cadet, not the school. In other words you can take it to any college in the country and if they accept AFROTC scholarships, than you are good to go you do not need approval to transfer the scholarship.

    Many Type 7 will convert to 3 yr Type 2, which means for their 1st yr., they are not contracted and college is on their own dime. Type 2 will only pay up to 18K a yr., and that is for tuition only. The key words "UP TO", some are under the misconception that if tuition is 15K AFROTC will pay the 18K still and they can slide that amount over to R & B, that is not how it works. It is UP TO, not 18K no matter the cost.
     
  17. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    ^ correct. For NROTC, there is Type I (Engineering) Type II (Math/Science), and Type III (Everthing Else -- Social Sciences, Business, Liberal Arts). 85% of scholarships must be Type I or Type II combined. 15% are Type III.
     
  18. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    That is all true for NROTC Navy Option. Marine Option doesn't care what the major is, but there are far fewer of them given out.
     

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