AFROTC Questions

[TexasA&MJH]

Hey there. I am ready to apply for an AFROTC scholarship, however I still have not decided on my major. I am torn between Civil Engineering and General Education (Business Management). I had originally decided to study Business Management but considered a change to CE because of the tech > nontech situation. I have a passion for both, but I am not sure about the rigors of the CE track, combined with AFROTC activities. I'll provide my stats below to give any possible replies a better profile of myself.

Academic:
ACT: 30
GPA: 3.75/4
A.P. U.S History, multiple honors courses
PT:
Situps-65
Pushups-59
Mile & a half-8:12
Other Achievements:
Varsity track: 4 years, conference honor roll
Varsity cross country: 2 years, team captain both years, conference honor roll, MVP of team
Leadership Academy: 2 years

Is there any chance of a general education applicant with my stats receiving a scholarship? I'm very torn between the two majors mentioned above and am just looking for some advice. I have been told by people with past AFROTC experience that I am competitive for a type 2 or type 7 scholarship if I go the general education route, but I'd like as many opinions as possible before making a decision. Thank you all for your time.

 

[CitadelN88]

Can't know for sure unless you apply

You don't list a lot of hard science or AP Math and Science
Personal opinion XC, track, swimming and the like seem to be looked at as tier 2 sports compared to say football, basketball or baseball .

Are you a sprinter or maybe a ttypo an 8+ minute mile seems rather unimpressive for a track man

 

[Pima]

Where to start?

1. DO NOT GAME THE SYSTEM
~ IOWS, going CE (Tech) over General Education (Non-Tech)
~~ If you get selected for a tech major scholarship, but after 1 yr you want to go non-tech it is highly unlikely they will let you keep that scholarship. You will need HQ AFROTC to approve changing from tech to non-tech. 85% of all AFROTC go TECH.
~~~ How will you pay for school without the scholarship?
2. JMPO, but your odds are low for a Type 2 regarding general education (non-tech) scenario without more information
~ 15% of all scholarships go Type 2. @150 scholarships nationally. Of those 150, only 15% go non-tech, or @25 recipients in the non-tech arena. That is out of a pool @ 5000 boarded.
~~ Your stats are strong academically, but 3.75 out of 4.0, without knowing your school profile equates to knowing nothing. Is your HS ranked number 1 in your state? % that go to Ivy compared to 4 yr compared to 2 yr compared to work. There are HSs that hand out A's like candy for Halloween. Hence, this is why they want to see your school profile to get a quick look at how many go to Ivies, etc. Top 15% and 25% go Ivy is different than top 15% and 0% go Ivy.
~~~You have only 1 AP, is that due to the fact that your school does not allow you to take an AP until you completed honors, or did you opt to go Honors over AP? They will look at your school profile, and that includes comparing your academic rigor to your peers.
3. Are you a female?
~ You state you are a runner, hence I think you are female. For a male that is an uh-oh for the PFA when it comes to the mile. My DS hates running, his mile target was and still is (ADAF) under 7:15. I can't recall, but I think for male members for max points it is under 6:30.

Without knowing more detail I would say type 7. HOWEVER, nobody knows the size of the pool and the amount of scholarships that they will award for FY2019. The rule of thumb is 16-18% of candidates boarded will receive a scholarship. Your SAT and cgpa places you in the type 2 and 7, BUT I highly doubt that as a general ed degree you would get a type 2. As stated earlier, 85% of type 2's go Tech.
~ I hope you have searched how a type 2 and a 7 differs when it comes to paying tuition.

APPLY. Best wishes. Thankyou for wanting to defend this great country

 

[TexasA&MJH]

Can't know for sure unless you apply

You don't list a lot of hard science or AP Math and Science
Personal opinion XC, track, swimming and the like seem to be looked at as tier 2 sports compared to say football, basketball or baseball .

Are you a sprinter or maybe a ttypo an 8+ minute mile seems rather unimpressive for a track man

An 8:12 for the mile an a half, not the mile. I run a low 5 mile. In track, I mainly specialized in the 400m. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I understand that you folks can't give me exact answers, so I'm just looking for opinions.

 

[CitadelN88]

An 8:12 for the mile an a half, not the mile. I run a low 5 mile. In track, I mainly specialized in the 400m. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I understand that you folks can't give me exact answers, so I'm just looking for opinions.

ahhhh that's more impressive - from data at hand it seems a scholarship is possible - good luck

 

[TexasA&MJH]

Where to start?

1. DO NOT GAME THE SYSTEM
~ IOWS, going CE (Tech) over General Education (Non-Tech)
~~ If you get selected for a tech major scholarship, but after 1 yr you want to go non-tech it is highly unlikely they will let you keep that scholarship. You will need HQ AFROTC to approve changing from tech to non-tech. 85% of all AFROTC go TECH.
~~~ How will you pay for school without the scholarship?
2. JMPO, but your odds are low for a Type 2 regarding general education (non-tech) scenario without more information
~ 15% of all scholarships go Type 2. @150 scholarships nationally. Of those 150, only 15% go non-tech, or @25 recipients in the non-tech arena. That is out of a pool @ 5000 boarded.
~~ Your stats are strong academically, but 3.75 out of 4.0, without knowing your school profile equates to knowing nothing. Is your HS ranked number 1 in your state? % that go to Ivy compared to 4 yr compared to 2 yr compared to work. There are HSs that hand out A's like candy for Halloween. Hence, this is why they want to see your school profile to get a quick look at how many go to Ivies, etc. Top 15% and 25% go Ivy is different than top 15% and 0% go Ivy.
~~~You have only 1 AP, is that due to the fact that your school does not allow you to take an AP until you completed honors, or did you opt to go Honors over AP? They will look at your school profile, and that includes comparing your academic rigor to your peers.
3. Are you a female?
~ You state you are a runner, hence I think you are female. For a male that is an uh-oh for the PFA when it comes to the mile. My DS hates running, his mile target was and still is (ADAF) under 7:15. I can't recall, but I think for male members for max points it is under 6:30.

Without knowing more detail I would say type 7. HOWEVER, nobody knows the size of the pool and the amount of scholarships that they will award for FY2019. The rule of thumb is 16-18% of candidates boarded will receive a scholarship. Your SAT and cgpa places you in the type 2 and 7, BUT I highly doubt that as a general ed degree you would get a type 2. As stated earlier, 85% of type 2's go Tech.
~ I hope you have searched how a type 2 and a 7 differs when it comes to paying tuition.

APPLY. Best wishes. Thankyou for wanting to defend this great country

I made a mistake when posting. 8:12 was my mile and a half. I run a low 5 mile.

I am a male. My highschool only has five A.P classes, and we can not take them until our senior year, with the exception of U.S History (I took & passed with a high B). My highschool is strong academically, but no where near #1 in the state. Ivy wise, I'd say almost no one applies Ivy.

I will stick with whatever major I choose on the application. I have no intention of going from CE to BM after one year. It's just a decision that I need to make now, before I submit the actual application.

Paying for the school without a scholarship shouldn't be an issue.

I have looked into the differences between a Type 2 and 7. I understand that Type 2 pays up to $18,000 per year, and Type 7 pays the in-state tuition rate.

 

[Pima]

Okay, that being stated let's move forward.

I will stick with whatever major I choose on the application. I have no intention of going from CE to BM after one year.

Before I start, please note that I have been here for a decade.

I don't have enough fingers and toes in my family, including the dogs, cats, and hamsters/gerbils we have owned when it comes to that "I'll stick with it" line as a senior in HS, only to read posts at the end of freshmen fall semester...UH OH I hate Engineering!
~ Please note I have been here for 10 yrs. Trust me, nobody walks in saying I will give it a shot, they say the same thing as you. I AM GOING TO GRADUATE AS AN ENGINEER! Yet, Finals week rolls around and they realize that their cgpa is barely at 2.5, so they try to go non-tech. Which becomes a no go when it comes to keeping the AFROTC scholarship

Your moniker is tied to Texas A &M. If you get at least 1K scholarship from them, which most Corps of Cadets get, than you will be charged In State, thus, you only need a type 7. That becomes the question. What are your chances of getting into TAMU? Is it a safety, match or reach? Additionally, you need to have back ups. If TAMU is safety and your dream school than I would go for gen. ed. if it is a reach, my opinion changes.

The beauty of AFROTC scholarship is it is tied to the cadet, not the school, unlike AROTC and NROTC

 

[TexasA&MJH]

Okay, that being stated let's move forward.

I will stick with whatever major I choose on the application. I have no intention of going from CE to BM after one year.

Before I start, please note that I have been here for a decade.

I don't have enough fingers and toes in my family, including the dogs, cats, and hamsters/gerbils we have owned when it comes to that "I'll stick with it" line as a senior in HS, only to read posts at the end of freshmen fall semester...UH OH I hate Engineering!
~ Please note I have been here for 10 yrs. Trust me, nobody walks in saying I will give it a shot, they say the same thing as you. I AM GOING TO GRADUATE AS AN ENGINEER! Yet, Finals week rolls around and they realize that their cgpa is barely at 2.5, so they try to go non-tech. Which becomes a no go when it comes to keeping the AFROTC scholarship

Your moniker is tied to Texas A &M. If you get at least 1K scholarship from them, which most Corps of Cadets get, than you will be charged In State, thus, you only need a type 7. That becomes the question. What are your chances of getting into TAMU? Is it a safety, match or reach? Additionally, you need to have back ups. If TAMU is safety and your dream school than I would go for gen. ed. if it is a reach, my opinion changes.

The beauty of AFROTC scholarship is it is tied to the cadet, not the school, unlike AROTC and NROTC

A&M is either a safety or a match for me. U of Iowa and U of Minnesota are my safeties, and U of Michigan is my reach.

To address your point regarding CE:
I definitely understand what you are saying regarding engineering. What you addressed is the main reason why I'm so curious about the general education route. I don't want to be stuck in that predicament the end of my freshman year.

 

[gill0610]

DS has similar stats (academics actually slight higher) and is an engineering major. He was not offered any AFROTC scholarship but did get a 4 year Army scholarship. Are you stuck on the Air Force. I believe you would have a better shot at an Army scholarship if you choose the non engineering route as Army is not focused so much on engineering majors. Just something to consider...

 

[TexasA&MJH]

DS has similar stats (academics actually slight higher) and is an engineering major. He was not offered any AFROTC scholarship but did get a 4 year Army scholarship. Are you stuck on the Air Force. I believe you would have a better shot at an Army scholarship if you choose the non engineering route as Army is not focused so much on engineering majors. Just something to consider...

I understand that the Army is more open to majors, but I'm really aiming for the Air Force. That's been my goal since I was young and I plan to stick to it, scholarship or no scholarship.

 

[DeskJockey]

Let me suggest another way of looking at this. Let’s imagine that it didn’t matter what you majored in, and that five years from now you will be commissioned as a 2LT. At that point, you are going to be assigned a career field and a specific job at a specific location – which may or may not correspond to your personal preferences. Even if it is the worst job in the worst place under the worst conditions that you can imagine, do you think that you will nonetheless give the Air Force a 100% commitment to your assignment?

If the answer is no, you should not be considering AFROTC at all. But assuming that your answer is yes, and that five years from now you will be perfectly willing to put the Air Force’s needs ahead of your own, why not start right now? The Air Force has made no secret that they prefer AFROTC cadets to major in technical fields. They want and need students like you, who possess the aptitude to successfully earn an engineering degree, to step up and do so.

Of course, Pima is absolutely correct to point out that many engineering students find the first couple of years to be difficult and uninteresting – at least compared to their friends, roommates, and fellow cadets who are pursuing less demanding fields of study. You may well find yourself in the same situation. But the fact is that every year tens of thousands of engineering students (including AFROTC cadets) somehow manage to get past all of that, stick it out until graduation, and reap the rewards of an engineering degree – either in civilian or military careers. Given your test scores and GPA, you don’t need to wonder whether you are capable of earning an engineering degree; the only question is whether you are willing to make that commitment in order to earn a scholarship and commission.

Once you are out of college and in the workforce, and particularly in the Air Force, you are almost certainly going to face demanding jobs for which you will be personally responsible. I think it is fair to say that students who have gone through a challenging college curriculum, and have already learned how to manage their time, discipline their habits, and solve complicated problems have a big edge in the real world. Even if you never directly use an engineering degree in your career, it is an advantage for life. I don’t think you should let fear of failure dissuade you from giving it your best shot.

 

[TexasA&MJH]

Let me suggest another way of looking at this. Let’s imagine that it didn’t matter what you majored in, and that five years from now you will be commissioned as a 2LT. At that point, you are going to be assigned a career field and a specific job at a specific location – which may or may not correspond to your personal preferences. Even if it is the worst job in the worst place under the worst conditions that you can imagine, do you think that you will nonetheless give the Air Force a 100% commitment to your assignment?

If the answer is no, you should not be considering AFROTC at all. But assuming that your answer is yes, and that five years from now you will be perfectly willing to put the Air Force’s needs ahead of your own, why not start right now? The Air Force has made no secret that they prefer AFROTC cadets to major in technical fields. They want and need students like you, who possess the aptitude to successfully earn an engineering degree, to step up and do so.

Of course, Pima is absolutely correct to point out that many engineering students find the first couple of years to be difficult and uninteresting – at least compared to their friends, roommates, and fellow cadets who are pursuing less demanding fields of study. You may well find yourself in the same situation. But the fact is that every year tens of thousands of engineering students (including AFROTC cadets) somehow manage to get past all of that, stick it out until graduation, and reap the rewards of an engineering degree – either in civilian or military careers. Given your test scores and GPA, you don’t need to wonder whether you are capable of earning an engineering degree; the only question is whether you are willing to make that commitment in order to earn a scholarship and commission.

Once you are out of college and in the workforce, and particularly in the Air Force, you are almost certainly going to face demanding jobs for which you will be personally responsible. I think it is fair to say that students who have gone through a challenging college curriculum, and have already learned how to manage their time, discipline their habits, and solve complicated problems have a big edge in the real world. Even if you never directly use an engineering degree in your career, it is an advantage for life. I don’t think you should let fear of failure dissuade you from giving it your best shot.

I really appreciate this reply. That is a great way to think of it and before I read your post, I hadn't thought of the CE path this way. Thank you.