AFROTC Scholarship chances

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by adamandre1998, Oct 10, 2015.

  1. adamandre1998

    adamandre1998 New Member

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    I would like to know what kind of chances I have for a (high school) AFROTC scholarship. I want to major in Computer Engineering, and have a strong desire to commission as an air force officer. I have not yet completed my interview, but will by the end of November. Any advice for my interview is welcome as well.

    Stats:
    GPA UW: 3.1
    GPA W: 4.0
    All Honors/AP classes all 4 years
    SAT: 1890 (710 math, 630 reading, 550 writing) - retaking in december
    ACT: taking this month
    Participated in army JROTC all 4 years, 4 years on varsity demil drill team and varsity raider team, commander of color guard, Battalion Intelligence officer, company commander junior year
    Volunteer hours: 500+ / 2 mission trips to belize, 2 to colorado, 1 to tennessee
    Looking to go to a Texas (home state) or california public university
    Major: Computer Engineering
    PFA: 71 Push ups, 68 sit ups, 9:03 1.5 mile
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2015
  2. Stevenson

    Stevenson Member

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    We can't tell you if you will win it but since you applied, you stand some chance. Just a quick note, AFROTC does NOT include anything you do senior year except for test scores, which are also single sitting scores meaning they take the highest score in one sitting as opposed to super scoring. Super scoring is when you take highest score from each section from different sittings.

    Anyways, 1340 SAT is decent, and roughly the average. Your AP classes senior year do not count so perhaps your GPA might be different.

    Good job maxing the PFA. Make sure you keep working on it as your form may or may not be correct. Lots of people fail the pushups / situps because of form.

    GPA is still slightly low but can't really be determined because we do not know your school's scaling and difficulty. Getting a 4.0 is much easier where A- = 4.0 as opposed to 3.7. Your counselor will release your school's profile.

    You seem to only have JROTC on your sleeve and remember you are competing with captains on varsity teams in addition to JROTC.

    Interview: Dress appropriately, use sir or ma'am and make sure you prepare your resume as well as practice questions such as why do you want to be an officer, etc.

    Note: The averages in GPA and test scores constantly go up every year.

    Good luck!
     
  3. dasani

    dasani Member

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    You have a damn good stat sheet. Your SAT scores in math and reading are high, plenty of leadership positions with JROTC, great pt test results, and you are planning to major in a technical degree. You have a great shot at earning the scholarship.

    Since you mentioned Texas as a school, I would look into your State Congressman's Armed Forces Scholarahip. Last time I checked, a couple years ago, They award up to $10K, per year for tuition at any State school. Double check my sources. But you want to contact them early because each representative can only nominate one person.

    As for schools, research Texas A&M, UT-Austin, and Texas State University. All of those schools have good engineering programs and since they are public instead of private schools, tuition will not be as high.

    Best of luck kid.
     
  4. D.H.C.123

    D.H.C.123 Class of 2020

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    Any estimate for my application
    4.3 (W)
    4.0 (UW)
    ACT- Composite 29. Math-32. Science-28. Reading-27. English-28
    Varsity Baseball and Football. Team Captain for both
    Played basketball Frosh and Soph year
    AFJROT Class commander
    NHS
    Student Council Rep
    SADD Secretary
    Worked 45 hours a week in the summer
    Helped out with numerous community service projects- Church, Youth Group, Lions Club, Goodfellows
    Dad is a retired Major (0-4)
    CFA- 1 1/2 mile- 9:06
    push ups-84
    situps-78
    shuttle- 8.01
    6 AP Classes (Calc, Physics, Bio, Chem, Lit, and Gov)
    Ranked 3 out of 134
     
  5. Zero

    Zero Member

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    Why would you post this with your stats? Your parents being retired does not make your package look any better.
     
  6. D.H.C.123

    D.H.C.123 Class of 2020

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    I forgot to include due to that fact, I have a nomination to the Air Force Academy. My apologies.
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    james,

    1. If that is your real name, I suggest you change your moniker. This is an anonymous forum, hence why you really don't see names as monikers.

    2. Nobody can give you a chance because of multiple reasons, the biggest one being PAR.
    ~ There are over 2K HSs in the nation, that cgpas can vary all over the place.
    ~ Some HSs use a 7 point scale, some use a 10 point. Some will say an A is an A, equaling a 4.0, so will say that an A- is a 3.6. Some will multiply the % by 4.0, A 92 in that case is a 3.68. ~ The same is true for the wcgpa. Some weight honors, some don't. I have seen AP weights vary from 4.5 to 6.0.
    ~ They will also take into account your course curriculum rigor using your school profile. Having 6 APs sounds great, but if the majority of students at your school takes 10 than your rigor is not as strong as your peers in that school.
    ~ They will also look at the % that go Ivy, 4 year Private, 4 year Public, 2 year Community/Trade or work force. This shows them another side to the cgpa aspect...i.e. do they hand out As like candy on Halloween. For example, if you are top 15%, but 0 go Ivy, it looks different than if you are the top 15% and 25% go Ivy. The latter is viewed as an academically competitive HS.

    Overall, you do look strong, but realize that your ACT is in the average range for a Type 7, maybe a type 2. Since you stated a CFA and not a PFA, I am going to assume you are also applying for the SAs. If that ACT is a superscore than they won't be using that for your PAR. AFROTC only uses the best sitting.

    Additionally, the big thing here is that you did not state what your intended major will be at college. 80%+ are awarded to STEM/TECH. If you also look deeper into their system you will see how hard it will be to get a Type 1 or 2 overall, but even harder for a non-tech.
    ~ 5% of all scholarships are Type 1, or @50 nationally. Non-tech make up 5% of that 5%, @2-3 recipients. Avg. ACT is close to 31
    ~ 15% of all scholarships are 4 year Type 2, or @135. 15-20% go to non-tech. Maybe 30 recipients. AVg ACT is close to 30
    ~ The bulk of nontech get a Type 7. Many will convert that to a 3 year type 2. AVg ACT is close to 29

    If you go tech major, remember that if you want to switch to a non-tech major you will need their approval to keep the scholarship. Chances are they will say no.

    XPosted with james.
    ~ I figured you were applying to USAFA because of the CFA and the retired O4 comment. Is your only nomination to USAFA, Presidential? Remember Presidential is considered a non-competitive nomination. IOWS the pool size is unlimited, it can be as high as 500 for the 100 appointments.
    ~ Also understand that HQ AFROTC does not talk to USAFA. There are many that get an appointment to an SA, but no scholarship and vice a verse. The main reason why is that for AFROTC ROTC it is on a national level from the get go. USAFA starts geocentric and works it way out to national. (Congressional, Senator, National Pool). If AFROTC has 1000 scholarships to award and the top 1000 kids are from California, than so be it. They don't spread the wealth across the nation.

    Statistically, AFROTC scholarship chances are about the same as a USAFA appointment @16-18%. Their academic standards are also in the same range, probably higher if you add in the fact that they do not superscore, but use only the best sitting for ACT/SAT.

    If you need that scholarship to attend your dream school. Remember that the slate is wiped clean once you are in ROTC. For Summer Field Training (SFT) they will not take into account that you are on scholarship. If not selected there is an insanely high chance that you sill be disenrolled and lose that scholarship after your sophomore year.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015
  8. D.H.C.123

    D.H.C.123 Class of 2020

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    Ok. My apologies. I am applying to USMA, USAFA, and USNA.
    I really have a huge interest in all three branches of the military, which is why Im applying to all three.
    My ACT is not super scored. My transcript shows nothing but A's. I do not reflect much about myself based on grades, but I am happy I do. My school is a national merit school, and I have taken every AP class our school has to offer, and my guidance counselor says me and my other friend are the only two in the senior class with 4 AP classes.
    I am a STEM student, which I am applying as Mechanical. I have the desire for cyber security tho.
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    On that perspective than I think you are strong for a type 7, maybe a low reach for a 2. It really depends on the candidate pool. You may also have a chance for an ICSP when you do your interview.
    ~ If you are offered an ICSP, than they will require you to remove your name from the national board. Typically they also want the answer within days of offering the ICSP. I have seen some offered it on a Thursday with a required response by Monday.

    Just remember for SFT it varies every year. LY it was 91% selection rate. The year before it was 58% overall. Tech/rated had the highest selection.
     
  10. D.H.C.123

    D.H.C.123 Class of 2020

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    I am not aware of a ICSP. What does that contain?
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    An ICSP is a scholarship that is offered directly from the detachment. It will cover the full tuition and stipend. It can only be used at that particular college. Thus, if your interview is at your number 2 choice or if you have not heard from admissions yet, this can be a hard decision.
    Do you risk that scholarship in hand for the national HSSP that you can take anywhere? What if the school does not accept you? If the school is your IS college, than it is equivalent to a type 7, but if it is OOS or an expensive Private it could be equal to a Type 1 or 2. Now look at how few Type 1 and 2s are offered, which again makes you debate whether or not to take it if you need the scholarship.

    Beware, ICSP offers to HS students are not common place. Maybe a few every year on this site will be offered that scholarship.

    I will say what we all say here. None of use sit on the selection board. There are many kids that look amazing on paper, but do not get a scholarship. There are posters that we try to politely state it isn't going to occur, but they get a scholarship.

    All you can do is hope for the best and prepare yourself to pay for college without the scholarship. The reality is if you get a type 7 and want to attend a school that the tuition costs more than your IS college, you will not contract your freshmen year since you will need to convert it to a 3 year type 2. That 1st yr is on your dime. Additionally a type 2 only covers up to 18K for tuition. Now, if you are not selected for SFT, and they disenroll you, meaning that out of the 4 or 5 years (engineering) program in that scenario you will only 1 year paid.
    ~ This also does not address what happens alot...kids after a year in the program leave because it is not a good fit for them.

    This is the time to sit down with the folks and have that hard grown up talk...finances. Can you afford to attend without it?

    One last thought. Most of the scholarship cadets also get merit money from the college. Read the college fine print too when it comes to their merit scholarships. If the college states that their merit can only be used for tuition, than you are basically SOL for AFROTC. The key words for their type 2 and 7 is UP TO.
    ~ IE College gives you 20K merit, but only for tuition. You get type 2. Tuition is 24K. AFROTC type 2 is UP TO 18K. They are not going to now write you a check for the difference of 14K, which you can apply to R &B.
    ~~ caveat things may have changed in the past few years, but that has been what it use to be. It could have changed, so double check.

    Our DS got a type 2 and merit. He was lucky that the college allowed the merit to be deducted after the AFROTC scholarship was placed towards his bill. That being said when he entered between the 2 scholarships it was a free ride. By the time he graduated 4 years later, the cost of attending rose by 50%. We were now paying money for him to attend.
    ~ The one thing that did not change during those 4 years, now since 2008 is that AFROTC type 2 has stayed at the 18K max. for tuition.
    ~ This is common for most colleges to increase their costs by 10% per year. My DD attended VT as an IS student, and it too went up @40-50% over the 4 years.
     
  12. Stemmom

    Stemmom Member

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    @Pima (new here, sorry if this is not correct format!)
    I have a question related to your previous post about ICSP. My son was just offered a "Commander's Scholarship" and has three days to accept. It is for one of his top choice schools but not his #1, and he won't even be notified of acceptance at that school until Feb. It seems like he would still have an option later on to decline and be placed back into the pool for the national HSSP. If he accepts now, but then declines after he hears back from his EA school, are there still Type I scholarships available then (second board)? It seems he should consider waiting it out for the Dec. 23 national HSSP notification and let them use that CS now for an applicant who has that as their 1st choice school. So confusing with these deadlines. I guess we wish we could tell if this CS is an indication that he may qualify for the December 4 yr type I award.
     
  13. luluarnold

    luluarnold New Member

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    Stemmom...my son was offered a CS also and only had 3 days but it was not at his school of choice either. Sometimes you can call the commander at his school of choice and they may offer the CS also but no guarantee they will. Actually my son's got pulled after contacting the other school,(I know not usual). Also he did not get picked up for a HSSP scholarship. Now he is hoping to ICSP after his first semester of school. It's a gamble and a very hard decision I know. I hope it all works out the best for him.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I believe, but won't swear to it that once you remove your name you can not go back and apply again that year for the national HSSP board.
    ~ Basically you can look at an ICSP for HS students like an EA for college. Binding.
    ~~ Even if he resubmitted 1st of Jan. The way selection boards work is the officers reviewing the board will be on TDY (think business trip). They will meet for 3-4 days, 8-4. If the Dec. board has 1500 candidates, and they only get through 1200, than the 300 not reviewed will be the 1st on the next board. Now if by the time he submits, his number is 1896 for the next board. Than, he may be looking at the Mar board, not the Feb. board, and his chances could drop for a type 1. Think of the scholarship boards like a Bell Curve. 1st board is usually not the big drop. The 2nd is. The 3rd lowers again.
    ~~ It is not uncommon to see candidates be told after the 1st board, that no decision has been made, but that they were boarded. This is not necessarily a bad sign. It could mean they are on the cusp between a type 1 and 2, 2 and 7 , 7 and nothing. They just want to see a larger pool of candidates before HQ AFROTC commits to the scholarship.

    As far as chances go I would not even guess regarding how many type 1s are left for the 2nd board. However, if you look at it from a national numbers chance than you need to be realistic.
    ~ Overall selection rate is @18% of all applicants.
    ~ 900 nationally are usually given.
    ~ 5% or around 45 for a Type 1.
    ~~ Of those 45, 5% are awarded to non-tech majors, or @ 2 or 3 out of the 5000 that submitted applications.
    ~ 15%% will get the type 2.
    ~~ @135 nationally. Again, 95% will go to tech majors.
    ~ The remaining 80% selected will get a type 7. This is where many of the non-tech majors land, but still only @ 25%.
    ~ So overall for non-techs their chances are only around 15-20% of all scholarships awarded.

    Now, also remember that 95% of SA candidates will apply as their plan B. Yet you can't say that 95% of ROTC scholarship candidates apply to an SA as a plan B.
    ~ Unlike the SA appointment process, ROTC scholarships start and end on a national level. HQ AFROTC does not care if all 900 come only from CA, TX and VA. If they are the top WCS (whole candidate score), than so be it.
    ~ My point is if you want to see a larger sample of your DSs competition for a type 1, you should also look at the USAFA chance me threads.
    ~~ Again, there are candidates that get an appointment, but no scholarship, and candidates that get a scholarship, but no appointment. A lot has to do with how appointments work.

    Finally, here is a question you really need to discuss with your family. Can he afford to attend either of these schools without the scholarship?
    1. Many kids once in the program decide that the military is not a fit for them.
    ~ Trust me, I have been here long enough that if I could have a dime for everytime I read they said I have wanted this my entire life and nothing will stop me (HS student) and how many of them during their freshmen year said I want out, I would be able to buy my family's christmas presents with the amount I collected here.
    ~ AFROTC is what I call a 2+2 scholarship.
    ~~ It is guaranteed for the 1st 2 years, but as a sophomore they will compete for Summer Field Training (SFT). The selection board does not know (masked) if the cadet is on scholarship or not. If not selected for SFT, than the chances are high that they will be dis-enrolled from the program.

    Both scenarios mean that by their junior year you will be paying for their last years to attend that school. Most colleges will increase tuition/R&B by 7-10% annually. So, if his dream college is 45K this year, next year before he steps on campus, he could be looking at 48. 51K his sophomore, and 60 by the time he graduates. Can you handle that?

    I get this is a hard decision, and only you can make it. Have you thought about...at the very least getting a type 7 and converting it to a 3 year type 2?

    I also would add that I do not need to know his stats, but although an ICSP is uncommon, it may not mean he is a type 1 candidate, just a high caliber candidate for that unit. It does not mean that he is high enough to be a national select for a type 1.
    ~ Only you can decide if that is true. One thing to say he got an ICSP to MIT, applying to only Ivies, and another to say he got it to go his safety, such as, Timbucktoo U and wants MIT.

    I am not trying to be Janie Raincloud. I am trying to hand you the most information that I know of to make an informed decision.

    Good luck
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2015
  15. Stemmom

    Stemmom Member

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    Oh my! This makes it even harder to decide. Thanks for sharing.
     
  16. Stemmom

    Stemmom Member

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    Thanks so much for the thorough explanation. This is all such a gamble. The col stated if he wanted to use it at another school he would call and tu to transfer it but certainly preferred he use it for a student at his school. Without knowing acceptance results at other schools he applied to that is just even more risk I think I'll encourage him to call them this afternoon and discuss options in the event he later decides to go someplace else. So confusing. Can't make decisions this quickly! (Sorry for typos. Cell phone )
     
  17. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I hope he can do that, but I would not bet on it. The ICSP is not like the HSSP. HSSP is only tied to the cadet, and not the school. The ICSP is tied to the cadet AND the school. If you think about it, if the dets. could offer scholarships to anyone they think is qualified regardless where they intend to matriculate than there would be no need to have the national board.

    However, that is not the system. The dice he is rolling under the premise he is hoping that the other det. has not offered an ICSP to someone else. It can be seen as a win win win for the CoC that offered the ICSP. If the other college wants to offer their ICSP than they are off the hook for the scholarship and can use it for another cadet (win). If they don't offer him an ICSP and your DS decides he needs the scholarship to attend college, thus goes to their det., it is another win for them. If they decide to go HSSP, than that ICSP for them is still in play....win. There is no real loss for the unit. Yet, for your DS. If he accepts it, gets into his no.1 school, but they offered an ICSP already, than your DS will be like luluarnold's DS. You will pay at least for the fall semester next year while he awaits to see if he gets an ICSP.
    ~ Not to place more emphasis on the risk of this path, but a few years back. HQ AFROTC cancelled the ICSP board. Nobody that year group was eligible for an ICSP. The floating thought was this occurred because AFROTC and USAFA do not "talk" when selecting cadets. AFROTC statistically can guess how many (%) that will activate the HSSP using historical data, but that year USAFA dropped from appointing @1600 to 1350, that meant many more of the scholarship candidates activated in the fall. AFROTC has a limited amount of money in their piggy bank for scholarships and because more activated than they expected they cancelled their ICSP board that year.
     
  18. Stemmom

    Stemmom Member

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    Received further clarification today. The offer could only transfer to other schools that have a cross town agreement with that Detachment
     

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