AFROTC Scholarships

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by katgar, Apr 9, 2014.

  1. katgar

    katgar New Member

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    For those awaiting to hear about AFROTC scholarships, check your email or portal, they have released results! Good luck everyone!
     
  2. lcdrmom

    lcdrmom Member

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    Yes!

    Re-boarded earlier but just got a 4 yr type 7 that we'll convert to a 3yr type 2 and likely attend ERAU in Prescott.

    Sure makes the twe we got last week go down a bit easier.

    Hope everyone gets what they want.
     
  3. zojmn151

    zojmn151 Member

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    Nothing

    Portal states that he didn't get a scholarship. Haven't a clue why not. Any ideas on how to go about finding out more? He met/exceeded all the requirements/qualifications. We are stunned...to say the least.
     
  4. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    The requirements/qualifications listed to get a scholarship are waaaaay below the actual numbers for the average scholarship recipient. It could be a number of things, no one could really tell why without seeing his stats, might want to call his application coordinator to ask. Your DS can always walk on to an AFROTC detachment in the fall.
     
  5. MombaBomba

    MombaBomba Member

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    My son was reboarded to March as well. He didn't receive an AFROTC scholarship offer either, and that was after we were told that he was being considered for a type 1. However, he was accepted into the USAFA, which is his dream and he has already committed to it. Thus the lack of the scholarship offer doesn't effect him. But I wonder how he is qualified enough for the USAFA but isn't qualified enough for an AFROTC?

    It would be great if when dismissing an application it would come with things like not a needed major, low score in something or other, too late as all those scholarships for that degree was given out, not enough leadership, etc. Thus if someone wants to reapply, they have a clue on what to improve in order to qualify the next year.

    Good luck to your son!
     
  6. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    I think it was Pima who commented in another thread that the competition is different between a SA (more localized within your congressional district & state) vs. ROTC scholarships (national competition), and that may play a part in why one candidate gets a SA appointment but not an ROTC scholarship.
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Ca2 is correct.

    AFROTC boards are national. The candidate from VA goes up against the candidate from Idaho and Tenn. along with every other state. AFA super scores, AFROTC uses best sitting for SAT/ACT. AFROTC offers @85% to tech majors.

    That is why it is not as uncommon as one may think to not get a scholarship, but get an appointment.
     
  8. zojmn151

    zojmn151 Member

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    Interesting since my son had excellent SAT scores (eligible for a type 1), excellent PFT scores and will be majoring in Electrical Engineering which is the TOP tech major for AF....
     
  9. MombaBomba

    MombaBomba Member

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    While that may be true in some cases, I don't think that holds for all. There is much confusion because even on a national scale, these rejected kids are competitive. For example, my son's SATs were in the level 1, his ACTs in the level 2, and he applied for a strategic degree. He has the required participation, leadership, volunteer etc.. Comparing to last year's information and figures, it isn't clear why he wasn't selected for any type of AFROTC, especially as he was told he was strong enough to be considered for a type 1. Thus why not a type 2 or a type 7?

    I think much of the confusion many parents and applicants face are due to several reasons:

    1) Comparing to others who have posted their ACT/SAT and intended major and who received a scholarship this year. Seeing that there are those whose SAT/ACT are lower and not a strategic degree but yet receiving an AFROTC makes people wonder.
    2) With the advent of a volunteer armed forces, there are less people with military experience and understanding. Thus, many more folks feel more in the dark and confused about what the military really looks for and how the military looks for it. How many people ask questions on or read through this forum because they have no other "military adviser" to look to? I would bet loads.
    3)Does the USAFA and AFROTC boards talk to each other? Is the AFROTC board informed if one of their applicants has been offered a position at the USAFA? This might explain why some get accepted to the USAFA and not be offered an AFROTC.
    4) The information provided is not necessarily clear. Some of it is difficult to find, and it can be confusing.
    5) How much does where you apply to college weigh in the decision? Private versus in-state is mentioned, but it isn't clear how much it is weighted.
    6) How much does "the early bird gets the worm" play in ROTC allocation? Statistically, are you much more likely to receive ROTC scholarship money if you apply early?

    One of the things I have observed is the number of applicants for an academy or ROTC who are driven to reapply. In most cases, if someone is not accepted by his primary college, he moves on and goes with his secondary choice. He doesn't reapply to his primary college. However, those who are interested in the military, are more likely to reapply to an academy or ROTC. Thus, there seems to be a greater drive for feedback and understanding.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Momba,

    Before I answer, and when you respond, please tell me what you mean by strategic major. I only know of tech and non-tech. Are you saying he applied as an AERO engineer or he applied as a Chinese language major?
    ~ 1 is tech, the other is not. One may be critical manning for AF due to their need for Chinese, and the other is not, even though it is engineering.

    1. Stats are only 1 part of the WCS. Plus, AFROTC looks at the school profile, just like the AFA. 3.8 uwcgpa, 0 APs when they offer 9, class rank at 10% when 0% go Ivy is different than:
    3.6 uwcgpa, 9 APs, top 20% and 40% go Ivy.

    One says the school hands out As like candy at Halloween and the candidate didn't take the most rigorous course curriculum. The other says they busted their hump at a school that doesn't hand out As to everyone.

    Additionally many forget that AFROTC does not super score whereas AFA does and they place their super score in the stats. AFROTC is the only ROTC program that does not suoerscore.

    I place absolutely no weight on this site when candidates state stats until I ask them to tell me how many APs and how many go Ivy.
    ~~~ My pet peeve is when a poster says I go to a rigorous HS....everybody in his thinks their school is competive or rigorous. The HS in Arkansas can be the best in the state, but is it ranked on USNWR, Fortune, Money, Time, etc as the top 100 in the nation? The avg SAT for Fairfax VA is 1350. Their educational budget for the county is bigger than any of the lowest 8 states in the nation.

    ~~~ Yet, go out to Christiansburg or Emporia VA and those stats change.

    2. The military has not drafted in decades. Bullet was the 1st in his family in 1987 to go into the AF. In 88 there was no such thing as the internet, but like that time and now there were ALOs and CoCs at the det that you could get answers. My point is it was a heck of a lot harder to navigate 20 years ago before technology when we typed our college applications on typewriters than it is today.

    I don't understand how that has anything to do with why some get appointments and not scholarships....not trying to be rude, just not getting the point.

    3. AFA and AFROTC do not talk. AFA boards meet at the AFA. AFROTC meets at Maxwell.

    Their scoring system is also different. AFA super scores, AFROTC does not. AFROTC does not include anything from senior yr., but the SAT/ACT, AFA does. IOWs take 6 APs and become team captain Sr. Yr. AFA takes into account, AFROTC will not.

    Just like many that don't get a scholarship, but an appointment, there are tons that get both.
    I can speak for myself I know many personally on this forum that had to weigh going to Ivy league colleges, full ride between merit and AFROTC scholarship or going to the AFA.

    4. I agree, but that is why technology is so great now. Google didn't exist in 1990 when those O5 retiring this year with 20 years of service entered college, but they managed to get both.

    Not trying to be rude, just saying if you want it bad enough, it is easier these days to find the info than it was even a decade ago. Heck, I think ChristCorp, hornet, fencer, raimius and a few others on the AF side are the oldest members. This site is only 7-8 years old.

    5. It is constantly stated on this site that AFROTC does not place any weight in their decision whether the candidate attends private, in state or out of state. It says it on the AFROTC website. They care about their intended major. 85% go to tech majors. AFA doesn't care about intended majors.

    6. The early bird does play into the equation because there is a limited pot of money, BUT they have been doing this selection process for eons and know that some late birds will apply
    ~~~~ Hence, why some early birds are re-boarded. AFROTC wants to see a larger pool before offering a decision.

    I have seen type 1s given out from the March board while the candidate was reboarded prior. The reason why is they only offer 5% of all scholarships Type1 and the candidate is on the cusp. Instead of offering a 2 early on, they wait for more stats/applicants and offer them the 1.

    In the end, I did not try to offend you with my remark since your DS is appointed to the AFA. I was only pointing out that the system for ROTC is national, and while those candidates licking their wounds because they didn't get their plan A or B, that this is the selection system. AFROTC is nationalfirst, middle and last. end of subject, period, dot. AFA is first geo-centric starting with congressional, than state and ending national.

    If you look at the AFROTC website and their avg stats SAT, it is pretty impressive when you realize that their scores are not super scored. Type 7s are in the same parameters as the median of AFA cadets. The last time I looked the avg best sitting between a type 1,2 and 7 have about a 100 point score range. I think it is 1280-1380.

    Our DS got and AFROTC scholarship as a non-tech and his ACT was 33 or 34. His best sitting for math was a 720. The website might say you need to have xyz to be competitive, but that doesn't mean you are really competitive. AFA says 490 V or 24 E, but good luck getting appointed with those scores.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  11. MombaBomba

    MombaBomba Member

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    Thanks for all the feedback, and I did learn something along the way.
    I didn't take anything personally. What I realized is that I did not communicate my point effectively.

    First off, I do understand that not all High Schools are the same. This isn't my first rodeo so to speak. My eldest did not apply to a military academy nor ROTC. Instead he is attending a private university. I know the ACT and SAT will continue to matter because not all high schools are equal. I would chat with the college admissions officers after my kids interviewed, and they would fill me in and answer my questions. I also know and understand that the requirements/expectations/grading between an academy and ROTC differ. This is true of all colleges as well. Some super score while others don't, etc.. I comprehend the whole national versus regional competition. I also understand that many people have had to navigate through this process without help. Having to navigate any unknown without guidance can be frustrating and confusing whether it happens in 1983 or 2013.

    So here are the points that leave people confused in general:
    1) Seeing that their or their child's SAT and ACT are above or at the national ROTC statistical averages reported for the previous years. I am not talking the basic minimum, but the reported statistical average for that year.
    2) Being informed their child is being presented for a particular scholarship and then not even being offered a lower tier. So the natural question is how could he be considered strong enough for a level 1 and then not even receive a level 7? It's a question that naturally comes to mind. (Doubt that will ever be definitively answered)
    3) At some point the college being attended does matter due to the cost. A level 1 at an instate college will be significantly cheaper to finance than at a private university. My son was asked about the colleges he was applying to, and was told it does play a role. I am sure others have had this discussion as well.
    4) (They have redone the website. I hate when that happens, as I can't find what I'm looking for anymore, and then things get changed and emphasized differently). Both on-line and at the in person interview, the majors considered/weighted were strategic majors, which consisted of technical majors as well as certain languages. I am sure others were under that impression as well.
    5) Sharing of appointments or scholarships in terms of SAT/ACT etc. When "anyone" sees someone else with a non-technical degree who lists SAT/ACT scores that are lower, then that "anyone" is going to wonder "huh?" I do realize that there are folks who may report false information. However, overall, one can get a general sense of things.
    6) On-line access/sharing. Sometimes there is too much information or even what looks like conflicting information out there. Then information can be updated and changed. Thus some people remember and go by the "old information" instead of the "new information." All this at your finger tip technology can and does lead to communication issues and confusion.

    So all this can and does cause people confusion, and it leads to questioning: "Why him and not me?" It is a natural human reaction.

    "Why him and not me?" seems to be more "important" for those who are serious about the military. Most tend to want to reapply, and thus they really would like the answer so they can improve the weaker areas. Thus some sort of feedback on the rejection would be helpful. Wouldn't it be nice if there was some sort of official detailed report for those who didn't receive it, but who are driven to reapply again? I'm sure this system will be put in place right after they train pigs to fly reconnaissance for the military ;)

    Personally, my son doesn't need answers as his course is set. I am just curious enough about the why to ask on these boards and participate in a discussion. Sharing information/experiences with others who are in the same boat may help answer the why. It's nice not to be alone.

    Realistically speaking, I don't expect any i's dotted or t's crossed. But sometimes it would be nice if life worked that way.

    Thank you again for the time and effort you put into your response. It was appreciated.
     
  12. afrotc16

    afrotc16 Member

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    The thing about ROTC that people keep forgetting is that MOST CADETS are NOT on scholarship. After you get to school the first day, the scholarship doesn't matter at all. I still don't know who in my AS 200 class is on scholarship and who isn't. And frankly, it doesn't matter. I mean the scholarship cadets need to maintain a certain GPA etc. but everyone needs to meet that to be competitive for an EA. I know that when I got a scholarship and started ROTC, I was not expecting to be one of 2 cadets with a 4-year scholarship, and 4 cadets with a scholarship at all in a huge AS 100 class. I thought most people got scholarships.

    The scholarship board isn't deciding 'Is this kid good enough to do ROTC?', but rather 'Is he stellar (one of the top) and determined (and likely) to succeed in ROTC?' Stats aren't the whole picture - I think the interview plays a big role in determining who gets the scholarships. The commanders have experience with cadets and see who succeeds, who doesn't, what motivates them, etc. and so through the interview, they can tell if the kid is likely to succeed. Unlike with USAFA, if a student does not get a scholarship, they can totally continue with what their plan was (as long as the finances still work out) and join ROTC. And still be a stellar cadet, possibly earn an ICSP and commission as an amazing officer.

    My point is - just because someone didn't get a scholarship who had xx awesome stats doesn't mean that he/she can't excel in ROTC and commission. The end goal is the same and the way to get there is exactly the same, whether with or without a scholarship. I think too many people get caught up in the scholarship business and lose sight of the end goal - to be an officer. If you didn't get a scholarship - you shouldn't be sunk. You should go, join ROTC and show them your stuff.
     
  13. MombaBomba

    MombaBomba Member

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    I do understand he can join ROTC even if he doesn't receive a scholarship. However, being a pragmatic parent, I have to spell out the realities to him.

    For example, take our state university vs. a private school.
    Univeristy of Connecticut is 25K a year room, board and tuition in state.
    Boston College is 60K a year room, board and tuition.
    (Leaving out scholarship money in these figures. The max academic scholarship for UConn was just 2K a year 2 years ago for the honors program.)

    No ROTC scholarship money means he can't afford Boston College even though it is a much better college. He can't count on the hope ROTC scholarship money comes through his sophomore year. So that means no Boston College for him.

    He can't afford 4 years at UConn and then join the military. 100K in debt and then enlisting after voluntary participation in ROTC? It is not financially feasible.

    His choice is just enlist and hope to make officer through those channels (harder to do if I understand correctly), or give up the notion of a military career after college. The debt to income ratio just doesn't work.

    As a parent, when advising my kids, my philosophy has been "show me the money." That may seem mercenary and cold, however with inflation and costs continuing to sky rocket, it is the most pragmatic outlook. Debt plays a huge part in quality of current life and future life (marriage, home, kids etc.).

    The kids of today have much more difficult choices than I did. Back in the day when I graduated (1988), you could basically get a job +/- 5K of what 4 years of college cost (engineering, computer science, actuary, business etc..). Kids now a days have a far larger debt to college cost ratio. There is no way my son could find a job with a starting salary near his four year tuition cost at either school.

    This is a very real dilemma for many families and kids today. I know I have advised my kids and some of my friends have advised theirs not to apply to certain colleges. We advised this not because our kids don't have the qualifying resume, but because there is no way our kids can afford the four year cost.
     
  14. 2018Class

    2018Class Member

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    MombaBomba, your concerns about the cost of an education and college debt are definitely things most of us have fully considered. Would it be a viable option for him to start college, join ROTC, and work on obtaining a 2 or 3 year scholarship? Then if nothing works out by the end of his sophomore year, he can decide to pursue a non-military career after gradation.

    I've read about students showing up on campus and obtaining 4, 3, 3 1/2, and 2 year scholarships, most after at least the first semester. It seems like there might still be possibilities for him.
     
  15. ERAUMattroommates

    ERAUMattroommates New Member

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    Look at crosstown colleges. You can do ROTC with some big universities if you are enrolled at nearby community colleges. All you need is to be on track for a bachelors degree to be in ROTC.
     
  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    ERAU is correct, although UConn may not be a host famous, but I would be shocked to see if they were not affiliated with another college.

    Our DSs college was a host college and they had students from up to an hour away.

    As stated cadets on scholarship are not only the minority, but once in AFROTC they do not discuss it. The slate is wiped clean and everyone must prove themselves all over again. There is no preferential treatment given to the Type1 compared to a non-scholarship.

    Finally, I would strongly advise anyone going to a college because they can only afford it due to the scholarship. The fact is the AFROTC scholarship us truly only guaranteed for two years. If not selected for SFT or if their cgpa falls below 2.5 the scholarship can be revoked.
    ~~~ SFT selection board masks if the cadet is on scholarship or not. Thus, they receive no preferential treatment there either.

    Off topic, but I would also say that many of the AFROTC scholarship cadets also get merit from their colleges. JMPO, but I would never tell a child not to apply to a dream college because of the cost. I would tell them IF they don't get merit, than they will be at least left with the memory knowing they were accepted.
    ~~~~ Our DS received nice merit packages from all of his acceptances.One of the schools offered a free ride even without the scholarship from AFROTC, which is why I feel that they should apply. Our DD was told the same thing and she decided to select colleges based on what if there was no merit. She loves her college, and has flourished to the point that VT is paying for her Grad school next year and giving her a 1500/monthly stipend as a grad student plus all of her books.


    MOMBA,

    Out of curiosity who told your DS he was being offered a Type 1? Was it HQ AFROTC? If not, it is a lesson learned. The ALO may think they will get a scholarship, but not know unless they have seen the official list, which occurs almost at the exact same time as your DS finds out. The CoCs are also sent an official email list too, but they receive it when the list is released. Thus, in either scenario something messed up if they said to hi, his name is on the list. I would have him contact his ALO/CoC to ask why it occurred.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  17. MombaBomba

    MombaBomba Member

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    2018Class and ERAUMattrommmates,

    Thanks for your ideas. My son is lucky in that he was accepted into the USAFA, thus he can pursue his career goal of serving in the USAF. So he isn't faced with the hard debt vs. education vs. career goals choice at the moment. But before he heard the news, as a parent, I had to prepare and present all the "come to Jesus" speeches. And as a parent, it was no fun having those talks, but it would have been irresponsible not to have had them before he had to make his life path choices.


    Pima,

    Congratulations on your children's accomplishments! I hope they achieve all their goals in life! Its good to hear success stories.

    When my son went for his interview, we were told he was being presented/considered for a level 1 type scholarship. We weren't told he would be getting one. No one guaranteed anything. We were
    only informed that he qualified to be considered for one based upon his grades, activities and his major.

    Even with some of the academic scholarship offered, some of the schools are not realistic without additional scholarship money.
     
  18. markbrown6

    markbrown6 Member

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    difficult times

    As a nonmilitary father going through this new stuff: the service academy applications, nomination process, ROTC applications, decision about type of scholarships, DODMERB, waiting for field training, waiting for AD, I have to say that it has been the worst, absolute worst stress. So little real information. They must do it this way on purpose, to make us stronger. Well, it worked.
     
  19. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    I think this was a mistake on the part of your ALO. While their candidate recommendation is important, I'm not sure if s/he can even recommend one type of AFROTC scholarship over another. JMPO....but you should have just been told...."your son will get my recommendation but it is up to AFROTC HQ whether he will receive one and if so, what type".

    Good luck to your son at USAFA! My son will be a Firstie this year and will be there to welcome your son for 1st Beast. :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014

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