Alcohol usage and monitoring

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by TJsmom, Jul 15, 2010.

  1. TJsmom

    TJsmom Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2010
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was recently super surprised to hear that alcohol incidents occur frequently at the service academies. I thought that the students would be monitored more strictly. How much "partying" really goes on at the Air Force Academy?
     
  2. MullenLE

    MullenLE Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    2,291
    Likes Received:
    15
    Alcohol incidents happen at any college or university, regardless of what rules/monitoring exist. Whenever you give 17-23 year olds the freedoms that they gradually receive as they get older, there will be super decisions made by individuals (volunteer work; hidden demonstrations of humnaity to emulate; great displays of leadership, etc.) and use of drugs; alcohol; and theft....It is what happens in society...the good, the bad, and the ugly:thumb:
     
  3. bandit

    bandit Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2010
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm curious to know what kind of monitoring you thought would take place?

    The fact that you are hearing that "alcohol incidents" are taking place, means they are monitoring it. Otherwise you would never hear about it.

    You do realize that Haps bar is right on campus, next to Arnold Hall, right? They serve alcohol there. Few hundred feet from the dorms.

    Last year was especially bad for "alcohol hits". Not sure if it is because better monitoring or more drinking.
     
  4. Seamonkeydo

    Seamonkeydo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2009
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    0
    What is the drinking age for on base locations. "Hap's" . Do they ID?
     
  5. HNeedle

    HNeedle Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2009
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    1
    21 just like everywhere else, and yes they ID. only juniors and seniors can go to Hap's
     
  6. ski_mom63

    ski_mom63 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't believe it's "partying", I believe it's STRESS. Some cadets release stress by going to the gym, running, cycling, fishing, etc. Some cadets drink to release stress. Just like in the "real" world.
     
  7. bandit

    bandit Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2010
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    0
    hmmm, yes I would say there are probably some that drink to relieve stress, but...

    USAFA is a college and there is plenty of "partying" that goes on. Not so much on campus like it would at a regular college, but there are tons of other colleges near usafa and up in Boulder.

    Trust me, any parent that thinks that the partying will be any less worrisome because they have a cadet at usafa has blinders on.

    The only real difference that I can see is the repercussions of getting caught are much more severe at USAFA than they would be at another school.

    As far as drinking age. I believe all cadets under 21 are not allowed to drink, regardless of where they are, even when in a country where the drinking age is under 21. But that might be if they are in another country sponsored by usafa, not really sure. Just remember my cadet saying something to that effect.
     
  8. TJsmom

    TJsmom Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2010
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Bandit, I was actually referring to on campus and not to facilities off campus. So, the monitoring would come from who ever is responsible for the kids while they are on campus. No, I didnt' realize that Haps bar was next to Arnold Hall....thanks for that information.
     
  9. TJsmom

    TJsmom Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2010
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mr. Mullen, thanks for reminding me of some of the reasons I like the academy....pasted from your post (volunteer work; hidden demonstrations of humnaity to emulate; great displays of leadership, etc.)
     
  10. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    606
    Well, that's a big part of it. It's not a "nanny system" and though the AOC is the legal commander for the cadets, he's not responsible for every single action they take in the sense of a babysitter or watchful keeper. These young men and women are being prepared for officership, and thus as they progress they're expected to make better and better decisions. Having an AOC there to tell Firsties to watch their consumption is antithetical to the officership model, and would be counterproductive. In less than a year, those Firsties will be leaders and officers. If they need a babysitter, the system has failed greatly.
     
  11. TJsmom

    TJsmom Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2010
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    0
    ScoutPilot, I am not referring to "Firsties". I am referring to incoming students (freshman or softmores in terms of other universitys) who are underage. I wouldn't expect anybody to "monitor or babysit" an adult who is at the legal age to drink. My expectations would be that if students are doing things they are not suppose to be doing (drinking or other), that they would be disciplined. I am really only wanting to know about the Air Force Academy and not so much about the Navy. I don't know if they are different.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2010
  12. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    606
    Not sure what you meant about the Navy there. I may have missed something.

    The alcohol incidents are punished quite harshly. There's no concern about disciplining the offenders. I took it to mean that you were surprised that the kids get away with it. Frankly, it's too easy. I won't go telling where and how we hid things back in the day at USMA, but the truth is that where there's a will, there's a way. Young kids give in to that temptation, but at the academies it's at an astronomically lower rate than at a regular school.
     
  13. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    272
    USAFA (and other SA's I assume) make a big deal about it. Currently, alcohol hits receive one of the most severe punishment sets at the academy.

    Frankly, teaching good decision making is the important thing. You cannot do that by never letting people make choices. Therefore, you cannot monitor every decision. It's practically impossible anyway. I'll give an example. One of the cadets in my flight was caught drinking underage in the UCCS dorms in C-springs. Eventually, the report made it back to the squadron AOC. That was an awkward one, when I got back from class to find an e-mail about the mandatory meeting with my AOC, the cadet who drank underage, and his element leader--that was supposed to happen a half-hour prior!
     
  14. Texasrocks

    Texasrocks Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    2
    Anyone have an answer on this I know the overseas bases usually default to the host country's drinking age. What is the rule if a cadet is on leave with family in europe - can they have wine with dinner or at a beer hall? The age is 18 in europe.
     
  15. Mikil

    Mikil USAFA Cadet

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's as bandit's cadet said; if you're under the age of 21, you are not allowed to drink, even if the country you're in has a lower drinking age. It may be more complex than that, but having just finished my first year, that's how I understand the rules for cadets.
     
  16. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,661
    Likes Received:
    508
    My Firstie son just returned from Qatar, and the cadets who were under 21 were not allowed to drink. My son and 2 other cadets turned 21 while over there, and then were allowed to have few beers. The "3-a-day" rule was strictly enforced, also.
    Even the one time when they travelled off base into the city, they were escorted by regular airmen who enforced the 21 drinking age.

    Stealth_81
     
  17. Texasrocks

    Texasrocks Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2009
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    2
    Qatar the legal drinking age is 21 so that makes sense
     
  18. cadetmom100

    cadetmom100 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think that any cadet who has been subject to punishment /restrictions for simply being in the same flight/element etc as one who has been caught drinking would confirm that the punishment for getting caught with alcohol is much stricter at the Academy than elsewhere. The phrase "taking one for the team" brings on a whole new meaning. Hopefully, this can also work as a deterent, but this may not always be the case.
     
  19. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,295
    Likes Received:
    129
    The question on host country age. The CSP was revised two years ago prohibiting anyone from drinking under 21, regardless of host-country laws. As of the CSP revision that myself, eagle, and two others were involved in with permanent party from November to May, that has been removed and drinking age is back to host-nation laws.
     
  20. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,661
    Likes Received:
    508
    The drinking age on the base is 18.

    Stealth_81
     

Share This Page