Alternate Nominee Question

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by Classof83, Dec 4, 2010.

  1. Classof83

    Classof83 Member

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    DD received a letter designating her as one of ten alternate nominees of a senator of our state, and in the event that one of the first ten nominees becomes medically disqualified, etc., a name of an alternate nominee will be forwarded to the service academy.

    I understand the official purpose of naming 10 alternates, but is there a practical value, i.e. if two of the first 10 nominees become disqualified medically or choose another service academy, are the names of the next two alternates always forwarded to the service academy to complete the slate?
     
  2. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Hi!

    Without seeing the letter, I'm a bit confused. Your comment makes me think the senator actually uses the "1 principal, 9 alternate" method? There are only 10 nominees per opening.

    If that's what it really is, then what happens is this:

    a. 1 candidate is named "Principal." They will be granted an appointment provided they meet all the minimum requirements for admission.
    b. 9 candidates will be named "alternates." The academy lists them (or the MoC will rank them) and waits...if the principal "falters" and is DQ'd, then the alternates move up in rank...#1 alternate then becomes the principal, etc...
    c. Once the appointment is made, the remaining alternates are racked/stacked and kept in the alternate pool and can be reviewed/selected to fill any openings remaining after the MoC's slots are all filled nationally.

    Typically, probably 1/3 of the class comes from the alternate pool.

    This help?

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  3. Classof83

    Classof83 Member

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    Thanks Flieger83.

    Unfortunately, that is the confusion. The method the senator uses is the competitive slate with no preferred candidate, i.e. the service academy ranks the slate. It seems that the service academy will have the option with the alternate slate is to keep a full-ten slate even with the disqualifications, etc. That keeps 9 in the running for the national weight list (other then the principal). My question is whether the additional slots are actually filled if there are disqualifications, etc.
     
  4. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    I must admit that this is the first I've heard of an alternative slate to the original 10. I must also admit that it's a clever idea.:thumb: However, I'm not sure it will work in practice b/c, if it did, every MOC with more than 10 qualified nominees would have a lengthy "alternative" slate, guaranteeing him/her 10 qualified nominees. I don't think that's the way it works.

    The way it's always been explained to me is that the MOC turns in his/her slate of 10. There is the chance that one or more of these will lack one of the three required qualifications and, if that happens, tough luck. That is ONE of the reasons many MOCs like to nominate LOA candidates -- they know that the candidate has at least one Q (and often the CFA as well). Thus, the MOC knows that, if medical clears, that candidate will get an appointment and the nom isn't "wasted."

    I'd be curious to hear if anyone else has heard of this "alternative slate" approach being used successfully.
     
  5. 2011's Mom

    2011's Mom Parent

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    I don't want to be negative and dash hopes, but realistically it sounds to me like this is a clever way to give candidates that don't make the slate a glimmer of hope and transfer responsibility for the candidate not getting an appointment from the MOC (for not giving a nom) to the SA (for not selecting the candidate) when in fact I suspect the SA will never see the "alternate slate". I suspect the MOC submits the slate of 10 and then tells ten more (or however many) that they are on the alternate slate but that alternate slate doesn't really go anywhere. In my experience, the MOC cannot easily move around the slate - to do so would essentially be un-nominating someone (not good politics!).
     
  6. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Unfortunately, that is the confusion. The method the senator uses is the competitive slate with no preferred candidate, i.e. the service academy ranks the slate. It seems that the service academy will have the option with the alternate slate is to keep a full-ten slate even with the disqualifications, etc. That keeps 9 in the running for the national weight list (other then the principal). My question is whether the additional slots are actually filled if there are disqualifications, etc.

    Okay…your senator uses the “competitive nomination” method. That’s actually the most common used by ALL MOC’s: house and senate.

    The senator will submit 10, unranked, names to the SA and say: “These are my nominee’s, YOU determine the MOST qualified candidate and offer them the appointment in my name.”

    The SA will “rack and stack” those 10 candidates review EVERYTHING that you’ve heard of on all the forums here, and ultimately the WCS (weighted composite score0 will give a final “score.” Those scores are “ranked” (we say: racked and stacked) and the top number will receive the appointment.

    The other 9 will then move into the qualified alternate pool. And from those candidates, typically up to 1/3 of the next class will be picked.

    Now if you’re asking: if the nominee that ranked “first” for the senators slot ultimately is DQ’d, will the SA go back to that MOC’s nominees for the next most qualified, the answer is yes. The SA will fill the MOC’s slot with a nominee from THAT MOC’s list, unless NONE of them are qualified. That’s not common, but does occasionally happen in some smaller districts. In that case, that MOC will have NO appointee’s that cycle.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  7. Classof83

    Classof83 Member

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    "The SA will fill the MOC’s slot with a nominee from THAT MOC’s list, unless NONE of them are qualified. That’s not common, but does occasionally happen in some smaller districts. In that case, that MOC will have NO appointee’s that cycle."

    From what I'm reading here, either it is a clever way to not disappoint the voters of 10 additional families (and it really doesn't matter) or an attempt to prevent having "no appointee's that cycle" as the slate is always kept at 10 (as long as there are additional names on the list of the additional ten "alternates") and it does have a purpose.
     
  8. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    Something similiar to this has happened for years. If a candidate does not receive a nomination and is competitive, the Admissions Dept will go back to the MOC's office and ask that this candidate replace another on the slate who is not qualified or has no intention of attending the Academy. With that said, the present administration appears to not be doing this so much. A big reason for the VP nom.

    I'm with '85 that this would be difficult. MOC slates are due to USNA at the end of January. Any changes after this point would require the blessing of Admissions. Very few candidates are deemed unqualified by this time. Those unqualified scholastically usually are not determined until the end of the cycle in March or so. Additionally, many MOCs do not submit their slates until close to this deadline when the packages are more complete and final. Those medically qualified usually find out rather quickly but most disqualifications require time consuming remedials, etc. Anything happening after this end-of-January cutoff would be an informal agreement between the MOC and Admissions, very similiar to what I described in the above paragraph.

    Agreed. A clever idea.
     
  9. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

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    Fascinating [as Mr. Spock would say]. I never knew this. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, given that Congress has an incentive to make as many constituents as possible happy and USNA has no reason not to want as many potential qualified nominees.

    I live and learn . . . :rolleyes:
     
  10. Classof83

    Classof83 Member

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    I'll make a posting if anything comes from this. Again, this is coming from the office of a senator who has served many terms.

    Thanks for the input.
     
  11. Classof83

    Classof83 Member

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    From the "U.S. Military Service Academy Congressional Nomination Information Sheet":


    "This slate of nominees will number ten individuals per opening available. There
    may be more qualified applicants than available openings, and in such a case the
    first ten will be submitted, with the other applicants being placed on a stand-by list."

    No information was provided on how this list should be used.
     
  12. 1964BGO

    1964BGO Member

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    The plot thickens and becomes even more fascinating as I don't recall this information ever being discussed in BGO, HUB, or AC training sessions. It does make sense as even as late as the MOC slates go in there still are some candidates who haven't completed screening and end up DQ'd. It also benefits the candidates, albeit in a remote way.

    Under the circumstances I would guess that Admissions would control the stand-by lists.
     

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