Any rumors on Cadet BRANCHING timeframe?

[payitforward]

You're both incorrect. None of these branches are combat arms, because combat arms has not existed for 5 years now.

The Army's branches are broken into four major categories. They are as follows.

Operations
Maneuver
-Infantry
-Armor
-Aviation

Maneuver Support
-Engineers
-MP
-Chemical

Fires
-Field Artillery
-ADA

SOF
-SF
-CA
-PSYOP


Operations Support
-Signal
-MI
-Cyber


Force Sustainment
Logistics
-Transpo
-Ordnance
-QM
-Logistician

Soldier Support
-Adjutant General
-Finance


Health Services Division
-Med Service Corps
-Med/Dental/Vet/Nurse Corps


Combat arms is not a thing anymore. Additionally, the Chinook is not used exclusively in "service support" applications. That is simply one of the roles it performs.

You. are. the. coolest.

Because you just kept me from looking like an idiot by posting the "percentage that branched combat arms" on our FB wall. Not only that, but I figured out all the acronyms on this list. Woo hoo and THANK YOUUUUUU!

 

[Jcleppe]

I know, Scout always seems to come to the rescue to clear things up.

Well since your talking percentages, this is how our battalion shook out.

50% Maneuver
25% Maneuver Support
12.5% Operations Support
12.5% Logistics

 

[payitforward]

I know, Scout always seems to come to the rescue to clear things up.

Well since your talking percentages, this is how our battalion shook out.

50% Maneuver
25% Maneuver Support
12.5% Operations Support
12.5% Logistics

So now I'm going to look really smart when I post my stats like that

One more question. Which area does Chaplain Corps fall under? Health services?

 

[kinnem]

I would think prayers to God would fall under Operations Support. Let's see... Signal... Yup, Operations Support!

I'm sure someone will provide the correct answer.

 

[k2rider]

I know, Scout always seems to come to the rescue to clear things up.

Well since your talking percentages, this is how our battalion shook out.

50% Maneuver
25% Maneuver Support
12.5% Operations Support
12.5% Logistics

Yeas, but what percentage was Combat Arms?

 

[Jcleppe]

Yeas, but what percentage was Combat Arms?

Ha Ha, I give up on that one.

It's funny, they have changed the terms but it seems every cadet and PMS still refer to the term "Combat Arms" for certain branches. I guess old habits are hard to break. I'm sure sure a FA soldier still considers themselves a Combat Arm, even if they don't officially use the term.

 

[-Bull-]

Great minds, haha

Now Bull, don't tell that to the Chinook Pilots and crew that drops a Platoon of Rangers in a hot LZ or a FOB, they might argue with you over that one.

Most definitely agree. Chinook pilots definitely do a lot more than just ferry mail from place to place, and that is why the branch is combat arms. To all who read, Chinook was just used as an example since it is a role they fill.

 

[-Bull-]

Ha Ha, I give up on that one.

It's funny, they have changed the terms but it seems every cadet and PMS still refer to the term "Combat Arms" for certain branches. I guess old habits are hard to break. I'm sure sure a FA soldier still considers themselves a Combat Arm, even if they don't officially use the term.

And everyone still does. They can rename the technical term a million times, and everyone still uses the common term. Does it make it right? Nah, not really. But it's easier to understand and convey to others in common terms.

 

[Jcleppe]

Most definitely agree. Chinook pilots definitely do a lot more than just ferry mail from place to place, and that is why the branch is combat arms. To all who read, Chinook was just used as an example since it is a role they fill.

I was just messing with you.

 

[-Bull-]

I was just messing with you.

I figured. LOL You've got half an aviation platoon at your house around holiday time.

Thanks to scoutpilot for the clarification.

 

[scoutpilot]

And everyone still does. They can rename the technical term a million times, and everyone still uses the common term. Does it make it right? Nah, not really. But it's easier to understand and convey to others in common terms.

Well, the term combat arms was a rename from an earlier time. I always find it funny when kids (read: cadets and LTs) use terms that disappeared from doctrine before they had their first kiss. The persistence of institutional memory.

As the services amend doctrine to become more joint in language, expect to see more and more terms change. Part of being a professional is knowing your service. It is certainly hard to keep up with the changes, though electronic publications makes it easier.

If you really want to show your kids how proud you are, tell them to read ADP 3-0 cover to cover and summarize it for you.

Like Sun Tzu says, "Know thy self, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories."

 

[USMCGrunt]

Part of being a professional is knowing your service.

Scout, you make a very good point here and I hope it isn't missed by those reading all these threads.

Despite the bad example set by Cadre and others, it is up to the individual (cadet or commissioned officer) to educate himself on service organization, branches, and all other things in his chosen craft. You need to keep up with changes and stay up to speed with terms changes. Sure you can default to the "common terms" but you had better understand what the real terms, organizational structure, and technical details are. I recognize many of these posts are parents, but hopefully their sons and daughters know the answer to a lot of these questions. If not, they need to self-assess and get on top of their individual knowledge.

I will never forget a poster that hung over our Company Gunnery Sergeant's desk. Its message sticks with me to this day. The poster read: "If someone accused you of being a professional, would there be enough evidence to convict you?"

 

[Jcleppe]

Scout, you make a very good point here and I hope it isn't missed by those reading all these threads.

Despite the bad example set by Cadre and others, it is up to the individual (cadet or commissioned officer) to educate himself on service organization, branches, and all other things in his chosen craft. You need to keep up with changes and stay up to speed with terms changes. Sure you can default to the "common terms" but you had better understand what the real terms, organizational structure, and technical details are. I recognize many of these posts are parents, but hopefully their sons and daughters know the answer to a lot of these questions. If not, they need to self-assess and get on top of their individual knowledge.

I will never forget a poster that hung over our Company Gunnery Sergeant's desk. Its message sticks with me to this day. The poster read: "If someone accused you of being a professional, would there be enough evidence to convict you?"

I couldn't agree more with what you said, and I think most of these cadets when they receive their branch and start doing research quickly learn the correct terms. In defense of some of the cadets that have yet to branch, if you look at the vast majority of websites for ROTC battalions they still list these branches as Combat Arms, most of the LTC PMS's still refer to them as such. for most of these cadets this is what they are taught, it's not until they get closer to branching that they discover what they were told and what is correct is something different.

I agree that it is up to the individual cadet to do the research for their branch and learn the correct terms, I think most do. I remember when my first son branched Aviation, once he was branched he dove in head first to learn everything he could about Aviation. I remember many phone calls with him saying "Hey did you know this" or "This is what they call Aviation now"

It would just be nice if the leadership in these battalions would keep what they teach a bit more up to date.

Trying to explain in a quick post to someone with absolutely no military background what a Maneuvers is can get them even more confused, mostly they just want to know if their son or daughter is in something Combat related.

Don't get me wrong, your both absolutely correct, and I agree with you both.

 

[USMCGrunt]

It would just be nice if the leadership in these battalions would keep what they teach a bit more up to date.

Agreed!

 

[-Bull-]

I couldn't agree more with what you said, and I think most of these cadets when they receive their branch and start doing research quickly learn the correct terms. In defense of some of the cadets that have yet to branch, if you look at the vast majority of websites for ROTC battalions they still list these branches as Combat Arms, most of the LTC PMS's still refer to them as such. for most of these cadets this is what they are taught, it's not until they get closer to branching that they discover what they were told and what is correct is something different.

I agree that it is up to the individual cadet to do the research for their branch and learn the correct terms, I think most do. I remember when my first son branched Aviation, once he was branched he dove in head first to learn everything he could about Aviation. I remember many phone calls with him saying "Hey did you know this" or "This is what they call Aviation now"

It would just be nice if the leadership in these battalions would keep what they teach a bit more up to date.

Trying to explain in a quick post to someone with absolutely no military background what a Maneuvers is can get them even more confused, mostly they just want to know if their son or daughter is in something Combat related.

Don't get me wrong, your both absolutely correct, and I agree with you both.

Completely agree with what grunt and scoutpilot posted, and this as well JCleppe, and appreciate the advice. If the army is going to coin new terms for everyone to use that are more appropriate that is excellent, but they should also push to use the terms themselves. Other than the majority of ROTC unit websites, there are many articles from the past few years published on the Army's own homepage that continuously use the term "combat arms." Does that excuse myself or anyone else that doesn't seek out and adopt new changes? Absolutely not, but it's even more difficult to adopt changes when what is being told and taught are incorrect. I brought up Maneuver, Fires, and Effects a year or so ago to an Infantry NCO cadre member at my school and it got nothing but blank stares and a, "What?".

 

[scoutpilot]

maneuver – (DOD) 1. A movement to place ships, aircraft, or land forces in a position of advantage over the enemy. See FM 3-07. 2. A tactical exercise carried out at sea, in the air, on the ground, or on a map in imitation of war. See FM 3-07. 3. The operation of a ship, aircraft, or vehicle, to cause it to perform desired movements. See FM 3-07. 4. Employment of forces in the operational area through movement in combination with fires to achieve a position of advantage in respect to the enemy. (JP 3-0) See ADP 3-90, ADRP 3-90, and FM 3-07.

If you ever wonder about Army terms, your best bet is ADRP 1-02 (formerly FM 1-02). It's available as an open source document and defines many common terms.

 

[payitforward]

One more question. Which area does Chaplain Corps fall under? Health services?

After some extensive googling, I believe Chaplain Corps is considered a "Special Branch" of the Army and they don't fall under any of those other categories. Other Special Branches include JAG Corps and each corps in the Army Medical Department. This prevents those specially-trained officers from being reassigned to one of those other branches. I hope I got that right.

 

[Jcleppe]

maneuver – (DOD) 1. A movement to place ships, aircraft, or land forces in a position of advantage over the enemy. See FM 3-07. 2. A tactical exercise carried out at sea, in the air, on the ground, or on a map in imitation of war. See FM 3-07. 3. The operation of a ship, aircraft, or vehicle, to cause it to perform desired movements. See FM 3-07. 4. Employment of forces in the operational area through movement in combination with fires to achieve a position of advantage in respect to the enemy. (JP 3-0) See ADP 3-90, ADRP 3-90, and FM 3-07.

If you ever wonder about Army terms, your best bet is ADRP 1-02 (formerly FM 1-02). It's available as an open source document and defines many common terms.

Thanks, some light reading next to the fire with a Bullit Whiskey straight up.

 

[mbitr]

While improper, combat arms/combat (service) support is still commonly used terminology. I hear it used more often in conversation than the new categories. In my opinion it's easier to understand.

 

[scoutpilot]

While improper, combat arms/combat (service) support is still commonly used terminology. I hear it used more often in conversation than the new categories. In my opinion it's easier to understand.

Never underestimate the power of professional ignorance and outright laziness in the US Army officer corps.