AROTC Applications Process & Misc. ?'s

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Future2LtMom, Oct 3, 2012.

  1. Future2LtMom

    Future2LtMom Member

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    Hello all -- I'm a first time poster and I'm so excited that I've found this forum! The information I've found here so far is invaluable. To give you a little background, my son is in his first semester as a junior in high school and has decided that he wants to serve his country as an Army officer. His preferred route of getting there is through college ROTC (ideally with an ROTC scholarship). I have a few questions:

    1. Based on posts in the forum, it's my understanding that he can begin the ROTC scholarship application process the spring semester of his junior year -- is that correct? However, he's not able to begin applying to colleges until the fall semester of his senior year (at the earliest). So, how does the timing of the granting of a scholarship work with the timing of being accepted into college (or does the scholarship application process take so long that I don't need to worry about it)?
    2. I've gotten the impression from posts on the forum that it's not a bad thing for a scholarship applicant to be put off until the second board, in that it allows the applicant some "wiggle room" to change their top choice of school, etc.
    3. My son's ultimate ideal goal would be to someday serve his country by working for the FBI as an agent. If he were unable to obtain a position with the FBI, he wants to make the military his career. Would it work against him in the ROTC application process if he were honest & told the PMS about wanting to work for the FBI? I'm thinking that it definitely would.

    Your input is greatly appreciated!
     
  2. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    You are correct on the timeline. Spring or early summer to start. He can spend the summer researching colleges, visiting campuses, and coming up with a short list of colleges. If he wants the best chance at a scholarship then he needs to be on the first board.
    There is nothing wrong with him telling a PMS that his dream is FBI. We aren't looking to make career officers, just Lieutenants that will give us 3-4 years. Beyond that we've done our job and it's up to the big Army to retain the mid career officer. It doesn't really matter though because in two years your son will want to be high school english teacher, before he settles on a career in medicine, right before he decides the circus is where he belongs:)
     
  3. Future2LtMom

    Future2LtMom Member

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    Thanks for your quick reply! My son will feel much better knowing he can be up front about the FBI. When I told him that he may need to keep that on the down low for purposes of the interview, he didn't feel comfortable with the idea. I told him I would research the issue for him (thus causing me to change from being a stalker on this forum to a legitimate registered user-ha! ha!).
     
  4. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    One thing for your son to keep in mind if he is able to have his application ready for the first board. Make sure that he has an above average chance for admission to the schools he lists on the application. being awarded an AROTC Scholarship does not guarantee admission to the school. Some schools, not all, have some pull with admissions but it's not something he should count on.

    Every year there are applicants on this board that have received a scholarship but were not admitted to the school. This then becomes a mad dash to try and get the scholarship transferred to a school where they were admitted, this is not always an easy thing to do.

    In the Fall of 2010 when my son was selected on the first board he had not yet been admitted to any of the schools on his list. If he is selected he will have only 30 days to accept or decline the scholarship. My son was pretty confident he would be accepted to his #1 choice school so he accepted the scholarship. This can be stressful if the school he is awarded the scholarship is a reach school.

    Best of luck to your son.
     
  5. Future2LtMom

    Future2LtMom Member

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    Thanks for your well wishes and the excellent point that you made. It's something we will definitely have to keep in mind. My son's top choice would probably be University of Florida due to family tradition (his father and paternal grandfather both graduated from there). Although I feel my son is a fairly strong candidate, his GPA could be better (he's also not going to be a Tier I or Tier II major). He finished his sophomore year with an UW GPA of 3.61 (taking his high school's pre-IB curriculum), a 26/32 on the PLAN test (ACT's version of the PSAT), lettered freshman & sophomore year in cross country (has already lettered again in his junior year), member of 3 clubs (officer positions in 2 of them), over 150 volunteer hours, and is in the process of applying to Natl Honor Society (can't apply until junior year). However, UF is quickly gaining a reputation for being the "ivy league" of Florida public universities, due to their increasingly stringent freshman entry requirements. We are hearing more & more stories of "strong" students not getting admitted. So, it's basically a crap shoot. He decided to get out of IB the end of his sophomore year and is now participating in dual-enrollment (taking 1/2 his classes at the local state college and 1/2 his classes at the high school). Due to an articulation agreement between the Florida university system & the Florida state colleges, his plan was to continue at the state college until he obtained his A.A. and then transfer to a state university as a junior. The entrance requirements as a junior are typically not as stringent as those for a freshman. Plus, he would have been guaranteed entry to one of the state universities (although perhaps not his first choice). All college classes completed while still dual-enrolled in high school are completely paid for by the state (incl. fees & books). However, now that he wants to particpate in college ROTC, we've determined that it would probably be best to apply to college as a freshman and just transfer over any college credits earned while in high school.

    I keep reading on this forum how this entire process is like a marathon. I'm already tired and we haven't even gotten out of the gate yet!
     
  6. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Re: dual enrollment: be aware that the High School Scholarship Program is only for High School students with less than 30 semester units of college credit. A recent thread discussed whether this means "at the time of Application", vs. "at the time the student enters college". I don't recall that that question was definitavely answered, so if I were you I'd get that answer so you can plan properly.

    re: ACT: Make sure he takes the ACT and/or SAT at least twice each. If you want 1st Board, that means in early and late spring of Junior year. Waiting until Sr. year means the ACT/SAT is too late for 1st Board.

    re: TierI, Tier II -- that is actually NROTC terminology. Army is ADM 4 (Engineering), ADM 3 (Science/Math), ADM 2 (Quantitative Social Science), and ADM I (Arts, Liberal Arts). ADM stands for "Academic Discipline Mix".
     
  7. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    One thing to keep in mind regarding AROTC is that they do not have a Tier System when it comes to the application. When you son selects his major he will be placed in one of the ADM classes 1 through 4, STEM being 1 & 2 through Liberal Arts being 4. His Major really will not have an impact on receiving a scholarship, AROTC is not like the Navy or AF where the Tiers really come into play.

    Cross posted with Dunninla
     
  8. Future2LtMom

    Future2LtMom Member

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    Wow, I'm already getting an education! :redface:
    1. I wasn't aware of the limits on college credits in order to qualify for the H.S. Scholarship Program. That's definitely NOT ideal. That being the case, let me throw this at you. As I mentioned in my previous post, my son's original plan was to complete his A.A. before xferring to a 4-yr school. Once he decided he wanted to go through ROTC, I told him he needed to find out if he could start ROTC as a junior in college. He spoke with the "commander" (don't know if that's proper terminology) of the ROTC unit at his high school about it. He was told that he could attend LTC the summer before his junior year of college and then enter the Advanced Course his junior year. The problem with that strategy is that DS will graduate from high school May/June of 2014, but would not have completed A.A. until December 2014. That would have left him with about 6mos. of dead time between graduating with A.A. and start date of LTC the summer of 2015. Therefore, he wouldn't even be able to start his junior year of college until almost a year after graduating high school. It seemed like it was defeating the purpose of him being in dual enrollment. Therefore, the only other option was to have him apply to college as a freshman for the fall of 2014 and just transfer over credits earned as of that point. Now it seems we have to be careful about not accumulating too many hours! Do you know of any other options that I may not be thinking of?

    2. Yes, we are definitely on the ball with the testing. He is starting a class next week to help him prep. for the tests. He will take them December of this year and, if necessary, I believe the next test dates will be January 2013.

    3. Oops! Thanks for the clarification! Right now, DS is planning on International Studies/International Relations (or something similar). Does that translate to ADM 2 or ADM 1? And, does that mean he's bottom of the barrel in terms of being a viable candidate for a scholarship?

    Thanks again!
     
  9. Future2LtMom

    Future2LtMom Member

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    I just now saw your post. I was in the middle of replying to Dunninla when your response came through. Thanks for taking the time to fill me in.
     
  10. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Being an International Studies major would be an ADM1, This won't have any effect on his viablity as a scholarship applicant.

    As far as LTC and how you relayed that issue, you pretty much have the right idea on how it works. With the Army drawing down the LTC spots are becomming a bit smaller, they are still available just a bit more competitive.

    As long as he stays under the 30 credits he'll be fine. With the extra credits if he does start as a freshman and does the four years he would be in a great position to double major. Having a smaller load doesn't hurt either considering ROTC increases it's time commitment as the years progress.
     
  11. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    I did also Dual Enrollment and had the same question about college credits because the AFROTC website said that, in order to apply for a scholarship, you could not be a full time college student, which I was and took no classes at my high school that year. I called my Scholarship Technician, which was listed on the site by last name, and he told me that I was still eligible for a scholarship as a full time college student and could have over 30 credits as long as I had not actually graduated and received my diploma yet. I would think that the AROTC site would also have resources listed that you may contact to ask about it. It may well be that the AROTC HSSP does not allow an applicant to have more than 30 credits regardless of whether they have graduated or not, but it is certainly worth calling them up to ask for clarification. You may be pleasantly surprised, or not, either way it's better to have a solid answer from the ppl who would know.

    You should also look at you're DS's high school's policy on the amount of college credits a student my have from dual enrollment. My school had no cap, but a couple of the kids I dual enrolled with who started the program in their junior year were forced to graduate that year because their high schools only permitted a student to hold so many dual enrollment credits. Some schools see it as taking advantage of the system because you are paying drastically reduced tuition and fees(in some states it is practically free). This caught some ppl really off guard because their schools didn't inform them of this before hand and were told a few months into the year that their graduation date had been moved up and to start applying for college soon:cool:

    Best of luck to you and your son:thumb:
     
  12. Future2LtMom

    Future2LtMom Member

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    Just to clarify where you said that you were told by your Scholarship Technician that you could have over 30 credits as long as you had not actually graduated & recieved your diploma yet -- you were talking about your high school diploma, correct?

    Thanks for all your information! I will definitely do some additional research to make sure DS doesn't graduate too early from high school. He's in pretty good shape with his H.S. credits, so I guess it could be a possibility that he could put himself in a position to have to graduate early.
     
  13. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    Yes Ma'am that is correct. He said that I could be a full time college student with however many college credits(ended up having over 30 btw Dual Enrollment and AP credits) as long as I had not yet graduated high school and received my diploma.

    As for graduating early, that is almost certainly a no. If he receives a scholarship he will be asked to stretch out his remaining degree requirements so that he will graduate in 4 years. A 5 year extension can be awarded, but as a scholarship cadet, it is my understanding that you must graduated within the terms of you're scholarship. AFROTC only gives out 4 yr HSSP scholarships and they told us that our graduation date must fall btw 4 or 5 years from now, no matter how many extra credits you came in with. Alot of times though, the credits you gained in high school will be rejected by the institute you attend depending on your major and the institute itself. I only had one class not count for anything towards my major, but some ppl lose half the credits they came in with because the institute believes that (for example) a social science class at one university does not equate to the social science class(with the same course title as the one you took) at their university. I do not know if it works the same with the 3 yr scholarship AROTC prefers to give out, but I would think it would be the same. So if he comes in with a ton of credits and his chosen institution accepts most of them, he could stretch out his major requirements, pick up a minor, or double major even if he wants to.

    In AFROTC college students who are not freshmen but have 3 yrs to graduate can double up on 100 and 200 classes and graduate within 3 years(there used to be a 2 yr program but that is no longer in use), but freshmen entering the program do not have that option. As I said, I doubt your DS can graduate early in the program while on scholarship, but that would be a good question for the ppl up in AROTC headquarters when you give them a call.

    Edit: I apologize, I reread you're post and realized that I had read it wrong. I thought you were talking about graduating college early, but now I see that you were talking about graduating high school early. So yes you should check with your DS's high school about that to make sure he won't graduate early, and that if he will, that he won't be caught off guard and have missed the AROTC scholarship application time period for the new graduation date because of it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  14. gettingmoregrayhair

    gettingmoregrayhair Member

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    I wantedto comment on an earlier statement in the thread, when the mom mentioned that her son was interestes in International Relations/International Studies.
    She also mentioned the Tier system which is NROTC.

    Your son may want to investigate the possibilities of a LREC option within the NROTC program. LREC stands for language, regional expertise, and culture and fits within your son's interests. The down side is that this is tier 3. Only 15% of the total NROTC scholarships are awarded to tier 3 applicants, so the competition is very tight. But it is definitely a match. My DD was awarded a NROTC scholarship in anthropology, with hopes of a double major or extra coursework in International Relations.

    There is some info on the navy websites, but even her interviewer had not heard of it before!
     
  15. Future2LtMom

    Future2LtMom Member

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    Although that sounds like a wonderful program that the Navy offers, my son is adamant about going Army. My father was career Navy -- DS not interested. I strongly suggested Air Force (since I feel it's "safer") -- DS not interested. Since I know how hard-headed he is, I've had no choice but to support him fully in his decision to go Army. Say your prayers for me now! :)

    BTW, I love your user name -- I can COMPLETELY relate!
     
  16. 49er

    49er Member

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    Future2LTmom – I would continue to encourage your child to explore all of his options. When my son started the application process about a year and a half ago the only thing he was interested in was Army. I think this was because his influences were Army (I have a couple of close friends that are Army Reserve Colonels that our son knows real well. In addition a member of our church is a Major General in the Army Reserve.) We continued to encourage him to explore all of his options. He is now a scholarship Midshipman at a SMC; however, he did not even start his application for the NROTC scholarship until November of last year. In the long run, when all of his offers were on the table (including an Army ROTC scholarship offer to two schools one of which is the SMC he is now attending), his hardest decision was whether to go to the Coast Guard Academy or to take the NROTC scholarship at a SMC. After a couple of months at the SMC with NROTC he is very happy and has not looked back.
     
  17. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Future,
    :worship::worship:

    You are so far in front of the game than you know from a parent perspective. Many candidates have parents that sway their children, i.e. your belief the AF is safer, better chance at getting XYZ scholarship or career assignment.

    The reality is in the end if they are swayed to appease their parents sometimes it can lead to other issues.
    ~~~ ROTC is not a walk in the park, it requires 100%+ dedication. It is not a couple of hours a week. If they don't want to be there, it will show.
    ~~~ They are the ones serving AD, not the parents. If they are in one branch over another, and not living their military dream, resentment can build, not only regarding the military, but to the folks too...i.e. I wanted this branch, you made me take that branch.

    Our DS only wanted AF, we discussed every branch, but like your son we accepted his decision.

    JMPO, if you don't want to go grey or drink too many glasses of wine, start to believe in fate.
     
  18. Future2LtMom

    Future2LtMom Member

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    Can you give me an idea of what you specifically did to encourage him to explore all options? In addition to DS being rather hard-headed at times, I think that a certain level of lack of maturity is coming into play, as well. He's almost a year younger than many other kids at his high school grade level. In fact, he won't even turn 18 until after he graduates high school. Plus, I agree with another poster on this forum (may have been Pima) in that it's rare for a 16-18 kid to have enough life experience & maturity to truly know what they want in life from a long-term prospective. Nor, should we as parents, expect them to.
     
  19. Future2LtMom

    Future2LtMom Member

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    @ Pima

    I appreciate your encouragement. DS has the blessing/curse of being an only child. Therefore, whether he appreciates it now or not, my husband and I invest a LOT of time in trying to advise & guide him so he makes the best decisions for himself in life. We are very aware of walking the fine line between guiding him and controlling him. I've always told DS that I would always support his choices. We've always told him to choose things in life that he is passionate about. But now that his choice is to serve his country in the Army (the one branch I feel is "less safe"), I struggle with the Mama Bear in me. Thank goodness I have a wonderful husband that pulls me down from the cliff. I would never want DS to have regrets about something as important as this, or to have resentment against me.
     
  20. 49er

    49er Member

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    Well in all honesty, the biggest thing that helped was another friend of ours that is retired Navy spoke with him. Our son is an Eagle Scout and scouting was a big part of his life. (All the camping, hiking and outdoor activity in scouting may have also been a factor as to why he originally was interested in the Army.) The person I mentioned is also a scoutmaster at another local troop so our son knew him and respected him. He now works as a civilian with Navy recruiting. He was not pushy; he used that exact phrase “explore your options”. After our son started talking to him he figured he had nothing to loose by applying. After some thought our son came to realize that serving was more important that where he served. He continued to think and after some research and etc. our son decided the Navy was for him. We (mom and dad) were perfectly happy no matter what he decided….we did not push any particular service we just encouraged him to keep an open mind.

    Also, our son is a young one too, he turned 18 the week before he reported to college.

    In regard to Pima’s statement -“if you don't want to go grey or drink too many glasses of wine, start to believe in fate” – I agree 100 percent with that!
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012

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