AROTC Status and a independent daughter

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by jayh, Mar 26, 2011.

  1. jayh

    jayh New Member

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    My daughter has handled her AROTC application process without any input from my wife or myself so I'm light on the details of the process but hope someone can answer some questions about where she stands now that she is hearing from her schools. She completed all of her paper work, though there were issues(not her fault) that weren't resolved until January, she visited her two top schools(was invited to spend a weekend with the Battalion), performed the PT test and conducted an interview. She hasn't talked to any of the other schools programs that she listed on the ROTC application.
    That being said, she was not accepted to her first choice and was wait listed on her second choice. she has been accepted to all her other choices. Her status says "You have been selected for an interview".

    As her first choice has turned her down and second is wait listed should she now start to reach out to the others or is it to late?
    How much control do the local ROTC programs have in who they award scholarships to? I was under the impression it was up to the local command who they awarded scholarships to.
    I'm concerned about her status, at this point should it say something other then "You have been selected for an interview"? What are the other messages that could be displayed?

    She is active in Varsity sports, has a job, volunteers, is a NHS member, 3.8gpa and 1300SAT

    thanks in advance for any replies,

    jay
     
  2. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    Welcome, jay! I want to forewarn you that you will be in for a very stressful month. You will soon suffer from SAF Addiction. Symptoms include: (1) excessive sweating in your lounge chair, (2) unprovoked swearing and yelling at the computer, (3) blisters on your index finger caused by repeatedly pressing the "refresh" key on your computer while logged on to the AROTC site. There is no known cure.

    In any event, your DD's status will remain "you have been selected for an interview" until the scholarship is awarded, even though your DD has already been through the interview. We are expecting the decision from the final AROTC board to come around April 1.

    I would definitely make contact with the schools to which your DD has been accepted right away. We are in the final month of the college selection cycle, and I would NOT wait until you hear from AROTC on the scholarship. Start learning about the schools and rank-order the schools where your DD has been admitted. In the event that she is not picked up for a scholarship, she can attend the school and walk on to the AROTC unit. Note that your DD does NOT need a scholarship to participate and does NOT need a scholarship to receive a commission.

    As for the 1300 SAT, is that "650CR/650MA"? Or is that "433CR/433MA/433W"? If it is the latter, then the chances of a 4-yr is extremely low, because AROTC is being very tight-fisted with those right now (although no guarantees, hope is that campus-based scholarships will become available in the fall).
     
  3. jayh

    jayh New Member

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    1300 SAT, is ~650CR/650MA.

    When she was invited for the weekend experience she was told she would be offered a full scholarship if she was excepted into the university, which was a public in state school. Some of her other choices are out of state or Private. Will that have any bearing on a scholarship offer? Does the offer come from the local command or at a national level?

    Thanks

    jay
     
  4. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    Jay, 1300 SAT (650/650) is a strong score. Your DD should be in good shape! :thumb:

    For the past several years, AROTC scholarships were handed out by the PMS on campus, but are now done centrally by AROTC Cadet Command. Four, three and two-year scholarships may still be available on campus this fall, but don't count on them when planning financials for college because so much depends on the budget outlook for FY2012 (likely to be presented to Congress in August 2011). The way I look at it, your DD should have the following attitude: "I want to earn a commission, and if the Army is willing to throw money my way, that's great!" In other words, your DD should view the scholarship NOT as a way to pay for college or to provide an incentive to serve 4 years on active duty -- it is merely an unexpected gift. The reason for this is that success in AROTC depends on the cadet's attitude toward the Army as a potential career, and statistically, people who view ROTC as a money source don't do well (typically aren't prepared to make sacrifices to earn a commission). JUST KEEP THE FOREGOING JUST BETWEEN YOU AND ME, BECAUSE THE ARMY APPARENTLY THINKS IT NEEDS TO SPEND A LOT OF MONEY TO RECRUIT OUR KIDS!! :wink:

    As for my DS, he listed only very pricey schools on his AROTC application and this didn't seem to hurt him. But these were ivy-league level schools, and the Army is interested this year in "elite" schools for some reason (probably erroneously thinking they make "better" officers). However, for pricey private schools (non-SMC) or OOS state schools, this may be a factor. Unfortunately, the selection process is a bit weird and not very transparent. I would simply list the schools where your DD wants to attend and let fate take it from there.

    I am likely to get flamed for the following statement, but I need to make it anyway. So here goes.

    Over the past several months, I have been surprised that some of the PMSs and ROTC cadre like to view themselves as the "gatekeepers" at their respective colleges/universities. This is likely because some are having a tough time adjusting to the Army's new way of doing things and don't like it when our kiddos apply directly to AROTC Cadet Command for a national scholarsip and directly to the university admissions without having visited the resident ROTC battalion first. Most, though, are true professionals and have completely embraced that Army's new national scholarship process.

    Unfortunately, there seem to be many ROTC cadre out there who do not understand that it is a complete waste of time to spend a weekend at a school (particularly a "crap shoot" school like an ivy league) only to get rejected at that school. I suspect at some of the lower-tier schools, where there is a 90% admission rate, this may not be as much of an issue.

    You also need to know that there are some AROTC units out there who reside at "host" schools and really don't like it to have cadets at the satellite schools (of course, they don't advertise this). This may be because they've had performance issues in the past with the cadets at the satellite schools and have pre-judged your DD and prematurely placed her in the same "group" of expected underperformers. If the school where your DD wants to attend is a non-host school, don't be surprised if you get a cool reception at the "host" school (they may think, "These cadets at [satellite school] are a pain in the rear!"). The AROTC units at the "host" schools also have a close affinity for the "host" school and may subjectively feel that they should have a "loyalty" to the "host" school and should be doing whatever they can to encourage more scholarships at the host school. Most AROTC host schools do NOT have this territorial attitude, though.

    These are some things your DD should consider when selecting the right college and AROTC unit combination that will help her to accomplish great things. Believe me, you will know when the combination just "feels right." In your case, however, time is not on your side because your DD has little over a month to make a decision. My recommendation, therefore, is to make contact with each of the AROTC units now where your DD has gained admission and to steer clear of those who give you a "disinterested" attitude. The best combination is to have an enthusiastic admissions offer from the college admissions office and a welcoming embrace from the AROTC unit responsible for that school.

    Bottom line: Your DD should go to the school where there is positive energy about ROTC and your cadet.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2011
  5. sg1fan93

    sg1fan93 Member

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    I'd just like to point out that I don't believe listing OOS schools and Private schools greatly effect the initial decision. I received the scholarship to a private school, and then transfered it to a OOS school. So don't feel TOO worried that a lot of your remaining schools are OOS and private.
     
  6. jayh

    jayh New Member

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    This

    "Over the past several months, I have been surprised that some of the PMSs and ROTC cadre like to view themselves as the "gatekeepers" at their respective colleges/universities."

    When we visited a cadre for a weekend last fall, I was left with the impression that it was the Local Command that doled out Scholarships. My concern is she has not had much contact with the cadres at the schools she has been accepted to. But if I understand correctly, if she is offered a scholarship, it is not school specific. She has been accepted to several good schools, including VaTech, Auburn, UofS.Carolina.
     
  7. CadetMom777

    CadetMom777 Member

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    That is not correct for AROTC. They will give her 1 to 5 choices that the scholarship can be applied to. Last round of awards there were many recipients that only got one choice. You can attempt to transfer the scholarship to another school after the award, but it is not guaranteed to be successful.
     
  8. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    My DS received offer to only one school (awardees received more offers to multiple schools from the October board than from the January board). Note that the offer comes from AROTC Cadet Command, not from the ROTC unit at any particular school. Here is the relevant portion of the text of the memo that went out to AROTC cadre a couple of weeks ago concerning transfer (more information can be found in this thread http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=18442).

    Scholarship winners need to be reminded that the ROTC battalions cannot approve a request to transfer their scholarship offer to another school.

    Please have any scholarship winner who wishes to submit a request for change coordinate directly with the appropriate Scholarship Program Manager listed below at Headquarters Cadet Command.

    Before a request to change can be considered, the scholarship winner needs to:


    1. Accept the original offer. If the original offer is declined or withdrawn, the offer no longer exists.


    2. State in a letter or an email which school they are requesting to transfer their offer.


    3. Send a copy of the university acceptance letter. The applicant must be accepted to the university they are requesting to change their offer.



    Brigades
    POC
    EMAIL


    1st & 2nd
    Michael Sutton
    Michael.sutton@usacc.army.mil


    3rd & 5th
    Ron Jackson
    Ronald.jackson@usacc.army.mil


    4th, 6th, & Nurses
    Larry Waller
    Larry.waller@usacc.army.mil


    7th & 8th
    Michelle Guffey
    Michelle.guffey@usacc.army.mil
     
  9. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    This post on transferring ROTC scholarships to schools other than those initially offered is really worth highlighting- Thanks Patentesq:

     
  10. Dixieland

    Dixieland Member

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    Jayh, I won't comment on the ROTC discussion but simply want to applaud your daughter for handling everything herself. You should be proud of raising such a competent, self-assured young woman and I would imagine that she will do great as she heads into her future. My son handled everything on his own and was accepted to USMA and also won an ROTC scholarship to two of his backup schools.

    One of the things that I have observed as my first year as a plebe parent draws to a close is how many parents are still overly involved in managing their kids' affairs. Parents want to call various departments to handle issues or contact leaders to right a perceived wrong. Your daughter already is at an advantage in learning early to manage her affairs and be her own advocate. Well done, Dad!
     
  11. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    Let me clarify a couple things...Cadet Command has always been the offeree for scholarships. Even in years past, when we were pretty well assured that our recommendation would receive an offer, the local PMS still had to send the name up to Cadet Command and have the funds allocated to make the offer. If a local commander, in the current environment is guaranteeing you a scholarship I would be surprised, and a little concerned. Currently Battalions have very little input into the decision. The only thing we can do is indicate that an applicant shouldn't get an offer to our school. We don't know how many offers will be made to our school, or even how they are making the decision where to offer. Your Daughter needs to start making plans which do not rely on a scholarship. I would tell you that she needs to focus on the schools that are the best fit for her if she wants to become an Army Officer. If she doesn't receive an offer from the last round her best chance to compete for any campus based scholarships that become available will hinge on her academic success, and her full participation in ROTC. She should be touching base with all the Battalions she is still interested in, and let them know of her interest, and what her application status (with regards to the school) is. Some Battalions are better than others at tracking their applicants (and I would tell you that your daughter is in some pretty big pools of applicants). I have access to the University application system, and my list of applicants is relatively small, so I can continually scrub my list and send focused emails to different categories of applicants (applied, accepted, haven't applied) to gauge interested. I'm guessing the VT ROO(s) don't have the same luxury. hope that gives you a little more insight into where your daughter stands.
     
  12. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    Excellent thought, Dixieland. I think there is a high risk of "backfire" by letting our kiddos handle everything on their own. Your point is very good, though.

    I agree that it is unhelpful to be a "helicopter parent" once they have formally "left the nest". But our kids are learning to fly at the moment, and there are too many details that can trip them up in this process that leaving it up to a HS student is fraught with risk. I view my job as a parent is to teach DS to fly, while I suppose kicking them out of the nest abruptly does give them an incentive to learn how to fly before they hit the ground (but if Plan A doesn't work, then you've got a problem!).

    I suppose it really depends on the individual. My DS doesn't have the life experience to think in terms of Plan B, C, D, E, F, G, . . . and doesn't have the financial resources to drive to USMA, etc. for the overnight visit on his own. He also doesn't know how the Army really works outside of Hollywood.

    He also doesn't have formal training in decisionmaking like you would learn in business school, law school, or the military. So I am actually using this process to teach my son how to make right decisions as I have been taught over the years (generate options, select the best option, don't second-guess yourself, etc.).

    On the whole "bubble wrap" thing that is common on SAF, my son has said that he wants to do pole-vaulting this spring (despite having a USMA appointment). I reminded him of the consequences if he gets hurt. He evaluated my advice and decided that "bubble wrap" isn't going to be his approach to life. I decided to take a step back on this issue, and I'm biting my lip because I know that good leaders aren't afraid to take chances (it's become a teaching point). :smile:

    Every spring, I always smile whenever I see a parent teaching their son or daughter how to ride a bike. Some kids learn this sooner than others, but eventually they all get the hang of it. This is typically the child's first time without training wheels, and invariably, the parents I see are steadying the bike by keeping a hand on the back of the seat. Riding the bicycle for the child doesn't work, and eventually the parent has to let go of the seat and watch the kid glide down the street. I recall that this was a very proud moment for me as a parent.

    Just my humble opinion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2011
  13. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    I thought Cadet Command was the offeror! :shake:
     
  14. Dixieland

    Dixieland Member

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    :confused: Uh, sorry, patentesq, I was simply complimenting Jayh's daughter on being a "go-getter", not trying to make some "point". Not calling anyone one out on their parenting skills just patting a dad on the back.

    I don't consider it "kicking them out of the nest abruptly" to allow kids to plan their lives and pursue their goals. The end result of equipping one's kids for life is when they confidently step out of your front door and take on the world.
     
  15. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    Good point. I'm sorry, too. I didn't mean to discount your approach, which is a really good one. I have had many conversations with General Schneider (President of Norwich) over the years on the issue of "helicopter parents" who swoop in and make decisions for their plebes on just about every level. These parents can be a TOTAL headache sometimes for the administration and really aren't doing their kids any favors. You are 10000% correct about that. :smile:

    Jayh's daughter is awesome and further along than my DS!
     
  16. jayh

    jayh New Member

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    Dixieland and Others. Thank you for the compliment of DD, I have no doubt she will be successful in whatever she does and she will do it on her own.

    Clarksonarmy, thanks for adding a little more clarity, I will assume you have somewhat of an inside view.

    Others, I have talked to her about what being in the military means. She has several options for in state and out of state. Ive always told her that in state we would figure out how to pay for it, out of state was a different story, so I dont think her motive for ROTC is getting to the school she wanted. Her first, third and fifth choice were in state. She got into 3, 4, 5 and 6(but really wanted to go to 1 and 2).

    But, like the end of every other topic on this board, I think the conclusion is I'm just going to have to wait!

    Thanks again for all the replies and good luck to all,

    j
     

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