Atheist Groups Warns Florida Schools to Comply with New Pledge of Allegiance Law - Or Else

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by cga82, May 21, 2016.

  1. cga82

    cga82 Banned

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  2. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    Yeah, how DARE they allow them to express their right to free speech, or maintain a separation of Church and State? How can we sit back and idly watch as we continue this slide away from the intent of our Founding Fathers as expressed in our Constitution?

    Oh, wait.....
     
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  3. Idzak

    Idzak Member

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    Ten foot Pole available?
     
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  4. craiyan2

    craiyan2 Member

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    I'm a religious Muslim, and I also find this new law entirely acceptable. If a child does not believe in God, believes in multiple Gods, or doesn't know how they feel about religion, they should entirely be free not to recite it.

    I wish this was more of a secular nation as our national documents state it is, for a nation to truly advocate for freedom and civil liberty, I believe it must take a nonaligned role in the belief of its citizens.


    Also, If I could just quote a part of the article, it states, "It stands in violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. Both atheist critics and religious critics believe the pledge is incompatible with freedom and democracy. "
     
  5. AJC

    AJC Member

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    I remember the good old days when trolls hijacked threads instead of starting them.
     
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  6. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    As an atheist I hate this line. I don't say those words. When I am in situations where there is prayer I choose a few moments of silence vice prayer, but I never disrespect those who do choose to prayer to whatever God or gods they choose. As a person who majored in history, I can appreciate the role Christianity played in the founding in our great nation. I would love to see this line changed and religous references removed on money and other places, but those are just my opinions and I don't lose sleep over it. I don't believe the hype our great nation is deteriorating either, just evolving like all great countries have.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  7. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    To add to that, "Under God" wasn't even part of the original pledge. It was first brought up under the Truman Presidency by a movement started in Illinois. It was added under the Eisenhower administration during a period of anti-communist angst.
     
  8. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Same thing with it on money... It was voted on in 1956 and first appeared a year later.

    So my question is if removing these items will lead to 'detoriation' then how did this nation survive without it added in during the mid-50s?

    It's funny I often hear from those who learn I am an atheist, 'Wow I would of never guessed, you are so moral.' I actually belong to a humanist church. We gather on Sunday's usually outdoors for discussions, fellowship and community service. This group of people are amazing with their genoristy to others is unlike I have ever seen. I often find it odd when someone seems baffled I am an atheist and I usually point out that I don't need a book or the 10 Commandants to know not to kill someone. Again, whatever floats anyone's boat on relgions, good on them. Oh before anyone thinks that I am a liberal left wing hippie, happen to not be in many many ways. I don't really align with really any party as a libertarian.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  9. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I believe "Creater" shows up much earlier in our existence, correct?
     
  10. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Correct. The Consitition has no mention of God in it. The Declaration of Independence uses the word Creator in it. Big difference in the two documents though... One is law the other is not.
     
  11. cga82

    cga82 Banned

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  12. AJC

    AJC Member

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    What do you call it when one clown quotes another?
     
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  13. cga82

    cga82 Banned

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    AJC bingo
     
  14. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    The Declaration of Independence isn't law, but it is an important, foundational document.
     
  15. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Don't disagree.
     
  16. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    What is there to hate? I watched it. As stated I am not a fan of the line One Nation Under God, but I like the Pledge of Allegiance. But, everyone has the right to repeat it as is, not repeat it at all or participate in the parts they want. I think it should be taught in school and kids should also be taught about their rights to participate or not. I see it as educational. Not sure liberal or conservative has much to do with it. I know plenty of liberals who are patriotic Americans who have chosen to serve.
     
  17. cga82

    cga82 Banned

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    Show me a conservative that won't say "UNDER GOD". I disagree again, Red Skeleton explained it beautifully and it should be said or it will be be slowly and completely taken out of all schools. This will be the next step. Removal from schools - mark my words. This is what liberals do.
     
  18. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    I am one right here and off the top of my head I can point to a dozen folks who have voted Republican for their entire lives who have not said those words or chose to stop saying them. I am sharing a drink with a great former Marine right now who has similiar opinions as mine. I am also drinking with another former Marine who is as liberal as they come. He also happens to be just as patriotic. And another former Naval Officer who is a preacher. It's amazing I am sharing these points for discussion and we can have a great debate in person, so thanks for talking points CGA!

    I consider myself conservative in many ways. I do not consider myself liberal and have never voted for a Democrat. I actually align much more as a Libertarian than a Republican but have always voted Republican because the things I believe strongly in align more with Republicans than Democrats (as many Libertarians vote this way). I like the Pledge and I like it in schools. Do I think the country will fall into some type of detoriation if we stop? No. I think that comes from home and solid families, not a teacher's job.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
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  19. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    Once again, I get the distinct impression that you simply conduct GOOGLE searches of key words or phrases in attempts to support your points, and only use the portion of the link you post that may be useful to you, completely ignoring the context of the link and totally missing the nuances. It amazes me that someone who claims to be an educated and worldly man is so blind this way.

    What Mr. Skelton beautifully describes and PROVIDES THE IMPORTANCE OF in the Pledge is every word of the Pledge BESIDES the phase "Under God". He expands on each word and explains why it should be so important. For the words "Under God"? He simply states, "wouldn't it be a shame if they weren't included", never explaining their importance and WHY they need to be included.

    And why is that? Because neither Mr. Skelton, nor you, can provide the reason these words are important to this Country. Because they're not. Important to the people who follow the Christian faith, certainly. But NOT important to this Country. If every Church disappeared from our borders tomorrow, this Country would still exist. If we lost the rights, laws, and Government provided by our Constition, it would be but a memory.

    So feel free to label anyone who sees the world differently than how YOU would like to see it as a "God-less liberal" hell bent on the destruction of this country, and all who disagree with you as not "true" Conservatives (btw, how I vote, or how I lean in politics is none of your business, thank you. But I tend to disdain political support for those who honestly believe that cavemen rode dinosaurs just because some book said so). Feel free to be-moan the loss of "Patriotism" as YOU see it, and wrap yourself around our Flag. I choose instead to wrap my fingers around our Constitution, which is what REALLY makes this Country special,

    And isn't it a little eyebrow-raising that the importance of including God in the conduct of this Country seemed to have been left out of it?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
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  20. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    cga82 posted in support of another poster's comment supporting Trump. Not a typical activity of a true conservative....
     

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