Aviation Unit Opportunities

Discussion in 'Life After the Academy' started by Full Metal Bulldog, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. Full Metal Bulldog

    Full Metal Bulldog Citadel Class of 2016

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    428
    Likes Received:
    22
    What opportunities would a Support officer have in an aviation unit? Specifically, Chem, Ordnance (EOD maybe as well?), or an MP officer?
     
  2. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    606
    I don't think you get the MP thing. MPs exist, by and large, in two places: MP platoons (in STBs) and as part of the FLE organizations on installations.

    Chemical officers do USR. And training. And maybe, if they're good, get to run a gas chamber twice a year.

    Ordnance officers will run the distro platoon and company. Support element away from the flight line. Nothing to do with aviation.

    EOD does EOD and they only do it for EOD.

    You seem to have this desire to be in all manner of combat arms units, but you want to take a support route to get there. Why not branch into one of the combat arms branches?
     
  3. Full Metal Bulldog

    Full Metal Bulldog Citadel Class of 2016

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    428
    Likes Received:
    22
    Scoutpilot,

    I am indeed considering branching combat arms. I'm strongly considering aviation as a first choice (if it's even possible to be a second or third and still obtain it), I'm just exploring the opportunities of the support branches, there isn't too much information available on them, even on the internet. An example I've found of this is how cool Chemical Corps sounds, especially on GoArmy's website, until you actually talk to anyone who was ever in the army. I didn't know the first thing about how to become an EOD officer until an MS4 mentor of mine commissioned as Ordnance (EOD).

    I'm still not entirely sure I understand you're explanation of MP's, I only have a very Lamen's understanding of their job: police/security on Army installations.

    My ROTC unit had very few people branch combat arms this year. Absolute rockstars got Ordnance or Signal Corps. I'm just preparing a plan B that I'd still enjoy, that I'd still want to have an Army career doing. I'm just exploring my options, asking for advice and the occasional humorous anecdote.
     
  4. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,537
    Likes Received:
    837
    Looking at the branching models and even at the MS4's at my son's battalion this year, what is your definition of "Rock Stars". There were several cadets that fell more into "American Idol" category that still received MFE Branches.
     
  5. Full Metal Bulldog

    Full Metal Bulldog Citadel Class of 2016

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    428
    Likes Received:
    22
    In my battalion, I would say most MS4's placed MFE as their first choice. About 1/4 or less branched MFE. The ones that received their first choice were all E's at LDAC, 3.8+ GPA, and 300+ PT score. However, my battalion does have an often discussed issue with kids who can score a 350 APFT, but have an extended tenure on academic probation, or guys with a double major 4.0 but are on and off remedial PT. But there is a stigma and fear that MFE is too difficult to obtain regardless of proficiency as a cadet....
     
  6. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    444
    The internet is wonderful, but if does have it's limitation. Being an commissioned officer is about leading soldiers/problem solving followed whatever specality you picked.

    I was branch detailed by my choice, so I served as an Infantry Officer for 4 years than became a Military Intelligence Officer. I was mechanized infantry, so things like Bradley gunnery and vehicle maintenance were more important than setting up a L shape ambush. As a Military Intelligence officer, things like physical security inspections and security clerance paperwork, and being an weatherman became more important than reviewing some classified information. My West Point roommate, AH 64 pilot, spent something like 7 years out of 19 years in various AH 64 units and rest of time in either staff or not flying positions.

    I think picking what branch you want more about following your heart than doing research.
     
  7. DevilDog

    DevilDog Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    47
    If you want combat arms branch into the Marine Corps everyone is a rifleman. Just kidding good luck and God bless you.
     
  8. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    5
    I think you need to research more on what Brigades/BCTs, brigade support battalions, special troops battalions, maintenance, MP, or medical etc companies actually entail. With the modular system various units and officers are shifted around to fill niches. Army organization understanding is key.

    As for MPs I have a few friends in STBs, actual MP brigades and installation/internment management. It really varies but the actual field "police" work is rarely done by officers from my understanding and remember convoy security is a big part of being an MP as well.
     
  9. Full Metal Bulldog

    Full Metal Bulldog Citadel Class of 2016

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    428
    Likes Received:
    22
    Essentially you mean that the BCT system places officers that are otherwise specified a certain specialty in leadership and staff roles that could be very different from what they learned to be in BOLC, per the needs of the system to operate? The things ROTC never teaches you lol.

    I hear the saying ALOT that "the military is the military, and even moreso the army is the army". I believe this more and more all the time.
     
  10. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    606
    I'm not really sure what that's supposed to mean. You seem to understand. Explain it, please?

    The BCT system doesn't really spend too much time flexing officers outside their defined branch roles. Infantrymen go to staff, but they generally end up in the S-3 shop, making the machine run. The BCT is infantry-centric so that's where you want them. S-4 shops will generally be loggies. S-2 shops will almost always be intel officers. The support branches are a muddled mess. It doesn't matter if you're Ordnance, Quartermaster, or Transpo...once you go to CLCCC (Combined Logistics Captains Career Course, or "Click-3"), your branch becomes Logistics, you put on a new branch insignia, you go to any loggie job. MPs stay MPs, though they can go to the S-3 shop and do operations or operations planning. Engineers stay engineers. Many become the BCT/Group/Regiment Engineer or the Division Engineer.

    I'm concerned that at what is purportedly a "Senior Military College" no one is teaching you any of this stuff. Are your instructors failing to tell you, or are you failing to ask? This is basic organizational stuff.
     
  11. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    5
    To be honest I didn't learn the nuts and bolts of Army organization until I took the "death by power point" BOLC classes and researched on my own. ROTC for some reason barely touches on the BCT....
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  12. MabryPsyD

    MabryPsyD Dr. G.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    88
    In my CAB, the majority of the support staff (outside of HHC) are in the ASB. Lots of loggies! In the ASB we even have a Sigo company commander. I believe its important to know how the rest of the Army operates outside one's branch. If you can't speak in the language of the people you're supporting, you're useless.
     
  13. Full Metal Bulldog

    Full Metal Bulldog Citadel Class of 2016

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    428
    Likes Received:
    22
    Yep, Organization beyond the Battalion level is rarely touched on, and even then only in the context of an Infantry unit. Everything my peers and I have learned about support branches has been via Google. This is not rare either, as I have friends in AROTC at both my school, two big state universities back in my home state, and at a small private college near my hometown, we all have had similar experiences.

    MS-1 year is learning how to conduct PRT and an intro to land navigation. That's about it.
     
  14. MabryPsyD

    MabryPsyD Dr. G.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    88
    Yeah, this is my first assignment as support for a CAB. I honestly have to say I like the BCT world better. I believe its easier to make the transition to CAB support if you have the baseline knowledge and experience coming from a BCT. However in some cases, you MIGHT have the opportunity to earn crew wings as a non aviator. The CAB is a different flavor and if you get a chance, I would request a CAB for your 2nd or 3rd assignment. Its an interesting world.
     
  15. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    606
    You're not going to earn crewmember wings unless you're a medical provider, and even then they aren't real wings.
     
  16. MabryPsyD

    MabryPsyD Dr. G.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    88
    1. I am

    2. I specifically said "crew wings"

    3. They look and feel like a real badge to me :)


    -Dr. G.
     
  17. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    606
    There are crew member wings and "crew member wings." The latter being 15Ps, medical providers, etc.
     
  18. MabryPsyD

    MabryPsyD Dr. G.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    88
    Ok...

    The point I was reinforcing, is there are assignment opportunities for support branches in a CAB. Some support personnel can earn crew wings. I don't understand where you're going with your statement, as it pertains to the subject of this thread. Would you care to elaborate or add additional insight on support opportunities in a CAB or the major differences between BCT support and CAB support?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2013
  19. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,273
    Likes Received:
    606
    It pertains to this thread because this young man is considering many support branch options, but none of them are in the medical support realm.

    Hauling ***-and-trash is the same whether you're hauling CL IX-Air or HMMWV transfer cases. The big issue for him is that there is no STB in a CAB, which is where the MP opportunity he seeks would be.

    But what do I know...
     
  20. MabryPsyD

    MabryPsyD Dr. G.

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    88
    I believe the OP mentioned several support branches to include MP. I believe chemical officers do more than just "run the gas chamber twice a year". The OP also mentioned most of the information gained in reference to support centers around INF BCTs. Yes there are differences in the concept of support depending on the supported unit. Having served in a BSB for the 506th INF REG "Band of Brothers", in addition to my current CAB assignment, the differences are apparent everyday.

    But what do I know...
     

Share This Page