Being the best in UPT?

True, NHS isn't just an "honor" or "title" It is a leadership group that is very active during the school year in school and community service projects.

Speaking to the OPs question, like everyone has said, focus on the first hurdle, because that will make getting over the next ones that much easier. They are all stepping stones.

My DH was top graduate in his UPT class. But he didn't set out with the goal of graduating number 1. He actually made a similar comment as OP during his JR year of high school. His goal was to fly fighters off of aircraft carriers in the Navy. Well, he didn't get into USNA, or USAFA out of high school. His test scores weren't high enough. He was offered a USAFA prep school spot and took it. He ended up being a top graduate from his prep school class and entered USAFA.

Still focused on his dream, he knew he could cross commission into the Navy. What he didn't count on was falling in love and proposing to a fellow squadron mate (me). Suddenly cross commissioning into the Navy wasn't at the top of his priority list anymore. Join Spouse assignment became his new goal. So, he was probably the only one in our class to request UPT in Del Rio TX, because it was the only UPT base that had a personnel officer slot for me.

Once at UPT, his goal was to graduate, not finish first. He struggled in T37s, at first, but chair flew and chair flew and chair flew. And I helped him study and study and study the bold face. Before he even realized it, he was graduating #1 in his class. And guess what? There was fighter to Langley in his drop. Just waiting for him to pick it. (He grew up in Northern Virginia so this was a dream assignment). He didn't pick it. He picked a C21 to Randolph because that was the best chance we had of getting a join spouse assignment. Ironically, little did we know that before we were given the join spouse to Del Rio, the Personnel Chief only agreed to take me if they FAIPed (First Assignment Instructor Pilot) DH so we would both stay at Del Rio for a while. He foiled that when he finished first and had his pick of the drop.Instead we ended up at Randolph together within a few months after his UPT graduation.

SO, someone who didn't finish #1 in the class ended up with the fighter. The point of all this is to re-enforce what others have said, you never know where the stepping stones will take you, and how much your goals will shift along the way.
 
And I understand that. But as of right now, I want to be a fighter pilot. Whether or not that changes, people have dealt with that change and I will do so accordingly. But I say again, as of right now... I want to be fighter pilot.
 
SP4C3M4N said:
And I understand that. But as of right now, I want to be a fighter pilot. Whether or not that changes, people have dealt with that change and I will do so accordingly. But I say again, as of right now... I want to be fighter pilot.
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You want to be a fighter pilot, but in the other thread you are trying to dodge being in athletics. Let me explain my son for you and you will see why these two things are related.

My son was a three-sport athlete in high school. He had ten varsity letters in Football, Powerlifting, and Track. He was the #1 male athlete in his class. He also did Powerlifting at USAFA. In other words, he is kind of athletic.

Son went to UPT and graduated #1 in his class and got a fighter. Keep in mind he still works out and lifts at least 5 times a week and runs every day (currently in the hot Florida sun).

When my son flies a 2.5 hour mission (fight/tank/fight), he needs to come home and take a couple hour nap afterward. It takes THAT much out you.

If you are the least bit timid about athletics, you should re-think the fighter pilot thing.

Stealth_81
 
I am not trying to dodge athletics. In the other post I am trying to figure out how I should balance athletics with drama. Never once did I say I do not want to do sports. I run everyday ranging from a mile to three miles. I'll go out and ride anywhere from 15-30 miles on my bike some days. I am fit I would just rather be doing other things. Like I said in the other post, I know that athletics is important. That's why I want to change my participation in school sports, not that I haven't done any. Basically, by posting that, you have said to me, I need to be #1 in my athletics program at school. I am not your son. I can't do the things he can, but I am willing to do whatever it takes to get into AFA. I bet there are fighter pilots who were never good at sports. That's just the path your son took and it worked out for him.
 
SP4C3M4N said:
posting that, you have said to me, I need to be #1 in my athletics program at school. I am not your son. I can't do the things he can, but I am willing to do whatever it takes to get into AFA. I bet there are fighter pilots who were never good at sports. That's just the path your son took and it worked out for him.
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He's just using his son as a point of reference when it comes to the physical nature of being a flier. Not that you have to be #1 at everything just that it's demanding.
 
I am fit and healthy though. I'm quite sure it doesn't take ripped shoulders and rock hard abs to be a fighter pilot. If this is what stealth is trying to say, then it's a terrible reference. I am going to meet with my Dad's Best Man and roommate from the Academy at my Dad's retirement caeremony. He flew F-15s. I guarantee you he did not letter 10 times in three different sports. Like I said, that's what worked for his son. It won't work for me.
 
But you are trying to dodge a job.

Here's my sons' example:

Started a paper route at age 10 (yes, 10) which was every single morning from 5:30-7:30 a.m. Every.single.morning. of the year. At age 16, took jobs washing dishes in restaurants, cashiers at local stores, music teacher and guitar repair person, 20 hours a week. Fenced, every night, forty-minute drive from home. Every Saturday, fenced or went to a tournament.

AND, in addition to their regular high school curriculum, took 10 to 16 credits at the local university.

Did they find fulfillment in delivering the newspaper? Not too likely. Did they love washing dishes or checking out hamburger and bug spray at the grocery store? Not too stinking likely.

Were they able to juggle all that, plus maintain A's, plus have time for friends and family and church responsibilities? Yes, because they learned very young to work hard, manage their time, and keep their eye on their goals.

It's not that we expect a 15 year old to have his/her path down pat, Space. But I do think you might suffer from an all-too-common know-it-all attitude, and you come off as unwilling to put in the real work and real time necessary to reach the lofty goals you say you aspire to.

There are very very few careers, in the military or in civilian life, that require the time and commitment as Pilot. These kind people here are picking up on what comes off as "attitude" which may or may not be your intent.

As you will find out if you go to USAFA or USNA or ROTC, y ou have to learn to follow before you can lead, and you have to be willing to do the grunt work. A tweak in your outlook might be necessary before you come to this realization.

Best of luck...
 
and as far as "being ripped" goes:

My son had a perfect score on the PFT at USAFA. He still runs 15 miles a week, is a mountain climber, and works out with weights every day. You would be hard pressed to find someone in better physical condition than either of my sons.

Again, it does sound like you are doing a dodge.


And you sound like you might be LAZY.
 
I'm not sure these posts are quite as motivating as I would have hoped them to be.

Spaceman has asked the questions he came to ask and the members of this forum have responded. I think everyone has gotten their point across.

Let him make his decisions and see where it takes him.
 
SP4C3M4N said:
I am fit and healthy though. I'm quite sure it doesn't take ripped shoulders and rock hard abs to be a fighter pilot. If this is what stealth is trying to say, then it's a terrible reference. I am going to meet with my Dad's Best Man and roommate from the Academy at my Dad's retirement caeremony. He flew F-15s. I guarantee you he did not letter 10 times in three different sports. Like I said, that's what worked for his son. It won't work for me.
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:rolleyes: And you missed the point. Being a fighter pilot takes an incredible amount of stamina and strength. My first ride in an F-15C knocked me out - after a 1.5 hour sortie I came home, fell onto my bed, and around 3 PM I woke up around 16 hours later. That was a normal daily sortie for the pilot.

The important thing for a fighter pilot is leg, core strength, and endurance. I know of several people who stayed at Laughlin for a few months because they did not have the strength after UPT to pass the centrifuge. That's both people who weren't in great shape and a few were distance runners. Remember, UPT is long and lasts a year - if you come in not being in shape, you won't have time to remedy that in training. A fighter pilot needs power in the legs for pulling Gs.

The blow back with this kid comes with the fact that he is hardly the first one to come streaming into the forums dead set on a fighter, has a bizarre attitude, and starts asking how to be the best at step 800 before getting to step 2. And we've watched other come on, behave the same, and not get very far. So be it. You want inspiration and motivation? There's an inordinate number of youtube videos for that, you don't need us. We provide the raw, un-sugarcoated reality of what it takes. If you think WE are being rough, spend a day in a fighter squadron....
 
I too did two years of paper routes when I was 8 until I was ten. Once we moved Hawaii we lived off base and the military base didn't have any paper routes for kids. Haven't done it since. Two years ago I applied to work as a bagger at the commissary. Finally I got it but, I dreaded everyday I had to go. Although it was good pay one day out of every month, I am not excited to go back to work and be stuck with a job that was my choice to do. I'm not even sixteen yet! What's with everyone telling me to focus on what I can do now and not what I will be doing later! I am going to say this again for like the third time, especially to you, I WILL GET A JOB EVENTUALLY. I just moved to a new area and am still exploring the different places that interest me. Lazy? Why don't I letter ten times in three sports? Because I am doing drama. When it's going it takes 4 hours out of my day plus an hour long drive home. In jersey, it was farmland and houses are far apart. Making stops for 30 kids on an after school bus is long. I don't like sports, I don't look forward to them. I am still experimenting to find a sport that I like. At night I run. In the morning I bike. AFrpaso is right. Thanks to those who gave help and actually answered my question. Fencer, I've just gotten started. Three years is a long time.
 
hornetguy said:
:rolleyes: And you missed the point. Being a fighter pilot takes an incredible amount of stamina and strength. My first ride in an F-15C knocked me out - after a 1.5 hour sortie I came home, fell onto my bed, and around 3 PM I woke up around 16 hours later. That was a normal daily sortie for the pilot.

The important thing for a fighter pilot is leg, core strength, and endurance. I know of several people who stayed at Laughlin for a few months because they did not have the strength after UPT to pass the centrifuge. That's both people who weren't in great shape and a few were distance runners. Remember, UPT is long and lasts a year - if you come in not being in shape, you won't have time to remedy that in training. A fighter pilot needs power in the legs for pulling Gs.

The blow back with this kid comes with the fact that he is hardly the first one to come streaming into the forums dead set on a fighter, has a bizarre attitude, and starts asking how to be the best at step 800 before getting to step 2. And we've watched other come on, behave the same, and not get very far. So be it. You want inspiration and motivation? There's an inordinate number of youtube videos for that, you don't need us. We provide the raw, un-sugarcoated reality of what it takes. If you think WE are being rough, spend a day in a fighter squadron....
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Telling me this all doesn't help or answer anything. You are saying I don't have leg strength, core strength, or endurance? If not, then why tell me this all? Besides the fact that I am excited to grow up one day and be like you, which is why I care so much about being best in UPT.
I never said you guys were being rough. I have learned a lot from talking to you guys. Apparently what i'm doing now is not enough. If I truly have the determination to become a fighter pilot work has to be done. More than I'm doing now.
 
Au contrare

You just got the wake up call for what life will be like at IFS, and UPT. Hornet was giving you great advice and instruction. Sorry, but you are too blind to see how he helped and answered everything that matters regarding UPT success.

When you sit down for a second and listen to posters like fencer, stealth and hornet, you will realize that they are invaluable when it comes to instruction instead of fighting them with every post, just listen.
 
SP4C3M4N said:
Telling me this all doesn't help or answer anything. You are saying I don't have leg strength, core strength, or endurance? If not, then why tell me this all? Besides the fact that I am excited to grow up one day and be like you, which is why I care so much about being best in UPT.
I never said you guys were being rough. I have learned a lot from talking to you guys. Apparently what i'm doing now is not enough. If I truly have the determination to become a fighter pilot work has to be done. More than I'm doing now.
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You're getting it, now.

The checkboxes to hit:
Take the hardest classes available.
Find some sort of accredited sport (preferably team) and play it. You might be surprised. I and Pima's son came from a taekwondo background, Fencers sons did fencing. There are many options.
Find a volunteer/community service group you like and get involved.
Keep working out, especially running and upper body for now
Get a SAT/ACT study guide and knock the test out
Build the habits of a hard worker - taking on more than you can handle and then prioritizing is a good habit regardless of your future and will serve you well.
Learn when it's best to sit back and listen instead of arguing with experienced people on a topic - also learn how to answer good follow up questions that will help open that experience for the better.

Just a few pieces. A LOT of USAFA applicants that succeeded looked very similar. The core part that most everyone must have is: top grades in the hardest courses, strong athletics, and good test scores.
 
I agree with you guys 100% and honestly Fencer, Stealth, You and Pima especially have given me the most help with all my questions. Everyone knows Pima on the forum! Whether some of your responses may have been offensive to me. It only hurt because some of it is true. Honestly, what do I know. Haha!!! I'm just 15. You guys are the cool ones (fencer... Moms are just as important and awesome). I'm not sure what Pima did in the AF but, i am quite sure I wouldn't know what I would be talking about if I said it was easy. I was honestly quite psyched by your response about being in a fighter squadron. Telling me how hard it is makes me want to work harder.
 
I'll ring in with my 35 cents worth...perhaps a different perspective?

I wanted to be a "fighter pilot" since I was 6 years old and watched F-100D's flying over my house every day in England. I was told by an F-100D pilot that he became a "fighter pilot" by:
a. Going to USAFA
b. Going to Columbus, MS
c. Going to Luke AFB, AZ

So...I wrote USAFA (in 1966) and received a very nice catalog and letter telling me to keep after my goals and they'd welcome my application in 1977! :eek:

Long story short: it took me two tries to get into USAFA, I was NOT a distinguished graduate unless you call an AC PRO "Ace" a Distinguished anything. BUT...I was a "DG!" (Did Graduate!)

I went to Columbus (the F-100 was now an aerial target drone) wanting to fly the F-15. I asked an IP that was an F-15 pilot: "How do I become a fighter qualified pilot?" His response floored me...

"Make EVERY SILLY, DUMB, STUPID mistake you can...ONCE; and learn from them and incorporate that into your flying..." Sounds silly doesn't it?!

So I did that sometimes; mostly not, and I had fun in UPT! I was the #1 academic grad in my class (never missed a test question) but NOT the #1 flyer; not even close. But I was fighter qualified and had an F-4 assignment!!

Until bad weather, class delays, etc., showed up and caused my class to be almost a month late on graduation. THAT caused several of us to miss training dates so we were "reassigned" and I was sent to the LAST jet I wanted: the KC-135 StratoBladder!! :jaw:

I showed up at training with the worst attitude you can imagine. My IP quickly fixed that: "Steve, fighter pilot is a state of mind and attitude; the AFSC isn't required." He had flown F-4's as well as KC's. Once I understood what he meant, I pressed ahead. I early upgraded to aircrew commander, had over 500 hours in the T-38, was a wing executive officer, and then one day I was told: "your request for a tactical exchange is approved; are you okay with the F-15?" :biggrin:

So I had my tour in the Eagle...and learned that while it was a blast to fly (and the hardest thing I've ever had to employ; Bullet will know what I mean) it's mission was no more or no less important than mine was in the KC.

Where am I going with this? Simple...while "fighter pilot" sounds cool and impressive and awesome (okay, it is) it's also a VERY difficult slot to get because there aren't that many nowadays. And it's VERY hard work; much harder than most flying jobs. To go fly a mission of 1.5 - 2.5 hours...we'd brief before/after...about 6 or so hours. And during a hard 1.5 air-to-air engagement...I'd lose 10 or so pounds from being crushed by G forces and working so hard in the cockpit. I turned into a gym rat!

In my opinion...your goals should be; in this order:

1. Graduate from high school near the top of your class; gaining as much knowledge as you can from the "hard" courses
2. Maintain the fitness level you say you have; increase it if you can and make that your way of life
3. Obtain admission to USAFA or any other commissioning source that you desire
4. Graduate as high as you can in your class
5. Get to UPT and devote the entire year to being absolutely the best you can be with the goal of GETTING YOUR WINGS!!!
6. IF you do all that; you'll be in a position to request assignment to a fighter, if one is available.

Just my long-winded thoughts..

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
Thanks flieger83 your post was great. Stealth did your son have good stats besides athletics for the AFA? Im not saying he didn't deserve everything he got, Im just trying to see what it takes. I only do CC and track and Im more of a skinny guy not the powerlifiting type but Im going to start doing more lifting and build up my core. I have pretty good academic stats so I hope that will balance the athletics so I was wondering how your sons academics were.
SP4C3M4N it sounds like we both have the same dreams. Keep it up and keep listening. Ive kind of learned from pima to 'shut up and color' as she says.
 
It is important to understand once at UPT your academic slate is wiped clean. They don't care if you had a 2.0 or a 4.0, all they care about is how you do in UPT.

If I am to be brutally honest, no academics can tell you how to land a T6 with crosswinds. It is something that at the pace of UPT either your hands got it or they don't. Yes, your hands. The other is SA. As a WSO spouse, there is a difference between them and a pilot. A pilot is a seat of their pants kind of a person. A WSO is more analytical. JMPO...no flaming. Remember I am proud to be a 15E WSO spouse, and a 130J Pilot Mom

I think for you and sp4c3m4n you should read raimius's blog that he also posted on this forum so you can get a true insight from someone that has been through it. (Class of 10, UPT winged 12)

http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=35795&page=2
 
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I was asking how his academic stats in hs were to get into the AFA. I get that it is all new in upt. I have already read raimius' blog. It is really good information.
 
Cannonball,

My son had pretty decent high school academics. He had a 3.8 GPA with many AP classes and a couple of college math classes on the side. His school did not weight GPA so USAFA re-calculated his to a 4.0 for his application. He had a 34 composite ACT with 36 science and 35 math. He also had student government for 4 years and lots of volunteer hours through Catholic Heart Work Camp each year. He worked just a few hours a week as a soccer referee for the local rec club. I think he was well-rounded, not just athletics.

At USAFA he graduated with a 3.49.

Stealth_81
 
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