Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by MemberLG, Nov 6, 2015.

  1. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    http://www.politico.com/story/2015/11/ben-carson-west-point-215598#ixzz3qjfBza9D

    Opinions?

    From the article, "his application and acceptance into the U.S. Military Academy at West Point." If Dr Carson ever stated he applied to West Point, he lied.

    However, the article doesn't quote anything directly for Dr. Carson where he stated he applied and got accepted.

    I guess in politics and media, truth doesn't matter. Wonder which opponent did the research?
     
  2. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    By USNA standards if he even thought of applying he would be considered an applicant (got to keep up those fake acceptance percentages).
     
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  3. FalconsRock

    FalconsRock Parent

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    Let me preface this by saying I am not a Ben Carson supporter and this is just my opinion. According to the article, he never said he applied and was appointed to West Point. When he spoke with General Westmoreland and heard that he was what WP was looking for and was encouraged to apply and that everything would be paid for, I can see how a 17 year old would think that was a scholarship. In fact, on this forum, several applicants easily confuse an appointment to the Academy with a scholarship. It is entirely understandable. If you read to the end of the article, Dr. Carson said he did not seek admission because he wanted to be a doctor and did not want to obligate himself to 4 years in the Army. Dr. Carson never said he applied nor did he ever say he attended. These people will stop at nothing to discredit someone they disagree with or someone who gets in the way of their political agenda. It is journalistic malpractice and it makes me sick!
     
  4. Sledge

    Sledge Member

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    Agree with this. Plus the fact that it was 46 years ago, he was a kid then, and he's recently related it to a ghost writer who also has no idea how USMA worked in 1969.

    I don't think he was going to be the nominee anyway.
     
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  5. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Or likely it was shoddy reporting.
     
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  6. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    Let me preface this by saying he would be welcome cut into my skull or that of any member of my family. If he were not such an accomplished and admirable person, I would consider him a joke, as I would any other presidential candidate expressing his "well considered views". I won't catalogue them. But I would say, after 35 years in the business of trading grain, if Joseph built the pyramids in Egypt to store grain, he was a complete dumba$$. Also, my father spent the summer of 1939 in Munich. According to him and about every other historian I've ever read, the Germans were maybe anxious about an impending war which they all believed would be short and end in their favor. That was about it. Maybe, Dr. C should read more Dietrich Bonhoeffer and less John Norton Loughborough.

    All that being said Falcon and Sledge +1

    That we have so lowered our standards for qualification for the presidency goes hand in hand with the standards to which we hold journalists or to what we consider to be journalism.
     
  7. Spud

    Spud BGO

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    I agree with Falconrock and Sledge too. I am hard pressed to remember what I had for breakfast yesterday let alone what someone said to me 46 years ago, no matter who he was.
     
  8. Spud

    Spud BGO

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    (double message error)
     
  9. AJC

    AJC Member

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    Like a house of Cardsons
     
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  10. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    The hair of the dog that bit you? That could explain it.
     
  11. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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  12. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I've been quoted in Politico…. and the Politico reporter also took my comments out of context.
     
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  13. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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  14. MN-Dad-2016

    MN-Dad-2016 Member

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    My 2 cents.

    Assuming a General wanted you to attend West Point and you are smart and athletic, the last hurdle would be filling out some paperwork. He lived in DETROIT not an ubber competitive state. Heck, if a Academy coach wanted you to play football (for example) and you were smart, getting an appointment is child play. THE biggest hurdle remaining is being medically qualified.

    In 2012, my son got an LOA (letter of Assurance) from West Point after talking with a AOL just a week after intially STARTING (and not completing) an electronic application. I'm talking October 2012. Yea, I know they don't give LOA out as much in 2017. It was probably easier back then. The tough part in 2012 by a factor of 50 was getting a medical waiver which was the real hurdle. He chose USAFA (Air Force). They showed a $165K check at "Scholarship" night at the high school PRESENTED BY Michelle Bachman's office. They called it a fricken scholarship! I call it a "Scholarship" so people can understand he doesn't have to economically payout.

    Forget the semantics. The bottom line is Ben is a World Class brain surgeon who grew up poor and got into Yale . Yea, he could have gotten into West Point especially if someone prodded him to go and YES, they recruit bright students. He never said he applied but rather said he didn't all along. If people disqualify Dr. Carson for using words out of context or not understanding the technical application and entrance process, there is no politician that should ever be President.

    Disclaimer. I'm not sure Ben Carson is ready to be President. That should be the focus not some West Point conversation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
  15. Kyguardmom

    Kyguardmom Member

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    Hmmm... The problem is that there appears to multiple discrepancies and/or unsubstantiated claims from his books, not just the West Point admissions. Carson has stated repeatedly, over decades, that when he was in ROTC, he met with General Westmoreland over a Memorial Day holiday. He has written this and repeated it in many speeches. But Westmoreland schedule shows that he was not in Detroit over that Memorial Day. So far, no one has been able to corroborate his claims of a violent childhood. He is remembered as quite the opposite - a quiet, nerdy kid. And while yes, he did grow up with a single mom in Detroit, the neighborhood he grew up in was tidy, close-knit and relatively safe. That is not the perception he has given in writing or in his speeches. And so far, no one has corroborated his story about hiding white people during the riots that broke out after MLK's assassination.

    So, any of those alone might be considered a witch hunt by media. But taken together, it becomes more of a problem regarding his honesty. Which, according to polls, is his main attraction to his followers. Because, as we know, he doesn't have any experience in political office. And further more, it was his compelling life story, as he outlined in his books, that earned him those admirers.

    I am a published author of humorous little book about learning to ride dressage. It is subtitled as "memoirs". Through out the book, I inserted passages regarding my personal experiences to emphasis the broader points in the chapters. The 'memoirs' portions were based on my experiences, but I absolutely embellished some parts to make it more funny or relevant. So I get how easy it is to make that happen and how it can make for a better 'story'. But the basis of my book was not about me, it was about the subject of learning to ride dressage.

    That is not case or the intention of Ben Carson's book(s). I think he has a problem on his hands.
     
  16. Ice64

    Ice64 Member

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    The hit job on Carson by media is a complete failure. I think I like Carson now more than I did before the stories. If this is the worst that reporters can allege against Carson, then he must be a pretty good guy. He is 100 times more honest than Hillary Clinton. Hillary has an honesty problem, thus the democrat dominated media will try to attack any leading Republican's honesty. Politics as usual.
     
  17. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    If there is any "hit job" on Carson, it will be done by his fellow Republican candidates for the nomination.
     
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  18. kmlDad2020

    kmlDad2020 Member

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    Do not be so naive to let the media fill your head with nonsense. The media reports the "news" in a completely biased fashion to promote a very specific political agenda. Think for yourself, apply common sense and form your own intelligent opinion. Do not allow the media to undermine the core values of our great country.
     
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  19. Kyguardmom

    Kyguardmom Member

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    I'm always frustrated by this. Of course there is media bias, and people are naturally inclined to choose/believe those sources that more closely match with their values. And it's even worse now, with social media like Facebook and blogs etc, which tends to cluster like-minded people together and discourage those with differing viewpoints.

    But we have to our news and information from somewhere, right? And if not from the variety of media sources, then where?
     
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  20. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    I believe that's what Politico wanted it and you are doing exactly what exactly they wanted.

    I am not a Ben Carson supporter. A matter of fact, I don't like any of the Republican Presidential candidates.

    A question - before this article, would you have even known or cared about "multiple discrepancies and/or unsubstantiated claims form his books?"

    My opinion Politico wanted people to question Dr. Carson's claims. Writing an article that discuss we should consider Dr. Carson's background without doing the same thing to other candidates will look like a political attack or depends on a candidate be subject to a defamation law suit. So they picked a candidate and lied. Using the similar methodology, there could be an article along the line of "Rubio admits to abusing his Republican Party credit card" or "Hillary admits to using private email to protect her secrets." There is no such article. This also reminds me of Dan Rather's Bush II Air Guard service investigation - the fabricated letter or not being able to prove doesn't matter as Bush got preferrential treatments or Hillary Clinton's remark "what difference does it matter now."

    An article that talks about Dr. Carson might have exaggerated his background or meeting he had "46 years ago" (Spud) doesn't grab anybody's attention. However, a headline with "lied," "admitted," or "fabricated," grabs people's attention. Thrown in some facts, folks are thinking we should question Dr. Carson's background and the titel of the article is a lie and totally misleading should be overlooked.
     
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