Boots - again

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by armydaughter, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    My son told me today that most of the MS1s came with their own boots. He only has the issued ones which he says are pretty awful (heavy and uncomfortable). I have searched this forum and have a short list of other boots for him to consider. He says that a lot of the cadets have Bates.

    One thing that confused me was he said most of them have "urban" boots while the issued ones are "desert" boots. Can someone explain the difference?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Thompson

    Thompson Member

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    Trying not to divert the thread too much; but I also went out and ordered my own pair (BlackHawk Desert Warrior Wear)

    Unfortunately I cannot say how well it will hold out for ROTC yet (but I'm sure fairly well compared to standard issue). I did however, had the chance to take it out on a week long of hiking over all sorts of rocky terrain and such - and it has held up phenomenally. It's lightweight, and surprisingly does not need as much breaking in -- it's not as stiff brand new as some boots are. You could literally take the boots out of the box and go on a hike and still be good to go. The only downside is that they do not have GorTex ... but they do have Vibram soles.

    ... so, point is I guess - if you're worried about boots being authorized or not, this set is.
     
  3. Roxymom

    Roxymom Member

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    My son got Reeboks -approved by APMS prior to purchase.
     
  4. Infantry_Dad

    Infantry_Dad Member

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    The boots that my 2 son's currently wear are Garmont T8's, they have also indicated that the Nike SFB boot is also a nice durable, comfortable light weight boot.
     
  5. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    comfortable, light, yes. Durable? No. But durable doesn't matter around the garrison, so the Nike could fit in the rotation nicely. Not good for out in the field. Less traction, and they break down quickly.

    P.S. why don't you just read the multiple boot threads in this ROTC section, and in the USMA section. There is nothing new this year and all those old threads still apply.
     
  6. Infantry_Dad

    Infantry_Dad Member

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    dunninla, sounds like the original poster has a MS1 and is rather new to the forum and probably not aware of the past boot postings in the USMA portion of the forum. As stated my sons wear the Garmont T8's, which have served the oldest one well through ROTC (Ranger Challenge Team and Mountain Man March) and now into AD. Those are the one's that I would concentrate on if the Nike's have a durability issue.
     
  7. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    I did read the threads.

    I came here to ask one specific question which I didn't see in any of the other threads.

    "What is the difference between 'urban' boots which most of the new cadets brought and the 'desert' ones that were issued?"

    It just seems that no one can resist the chance to recommend a boot (which I didn't ask for but appreciate all the same). :rolleyes:
     
  8. Infantry_Dad

    Infantry_Dad Member

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    armydaughter, I'm not sure exactly what qualifies as an Urban Boot, I think he might mean Desert style combat boot vs. a Tactical style combat boot. If that is the case, it just comes down to different style soles. The Tactical, have more of a athletic/tennis shoe style sole for quickly moving around in "Urban" assualt situations.
     
  9. armydaughter

    armydaughter Member

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    Thanks. He may have misunderstood what they were telling him.

    I would assume the Nike and Reebok boot are tactical. Are the Garmont T8's tactical or desert style?
     
  10. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Ahh, OK, I get your specific question now. Inasmuch as there is no such thing as an "urban boot", I suspect he means the new breed of tennis-shoe like boots. The Nike, the Khyber Mountain Hybrid, and I think to a lesser extent, the BATES M8 are like that.
     
  11. blackhawks26

    blackhawks26 Member

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    Go with Blackhawk Boots. They are honestly more comfortable than my normal tennis shoes. There have been a couple guys in my battalion who have gotten some NASTY blisters from the SI boots, but my feet are feeling great.

    I got mine off eBay for about $30 cheaper than the listen price, but here's a link the Blackhawk website: http://www.blackhawk.com/product/Warrior-Wear-Desert-Ops-Boots,1062,20.htm. These are especially great, for me at least, because I have wide feet and they come in wide... that, and they aren't stiff and don't really need to be broken in like most other boots. Your son will thank you if you get these, I guarantee it.
     
  12. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    OK, so it seems we have lots of choices for "athletic shoe type boots", that are light and with a flexible sole:

    - Khyber by Belleville Mountain Hybrid : $120
    - Oakley: $132?
    - Nike SF Boot: $140
    - Bates M8: $180
    - Blackhawk Warrior Wear $160

    These all appear to be lightweight, flexible sole, Army approved boots. Whether they are approved in a particular school's Battalion I would suppose depends upon the NCO stationed there, or even the LTC/Maj in charge there. I think all of these is what OP's son meant when he said "urban boot".

    I would think that the best way to go would be to arrive on campus, see what is acceptable there, then order online by mail at any place that has a free size changeout policy. Since both the the Khyber and the Bates M8 were on last year's BEAST boot list, I can't imagine either would ever be a problem at an ROTC Battalion on a campus. Who's going to have an issue with a Boot List boot?
     
  13. Thompson

    Thompson Member

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    I don't want to sound like a snob or anything, but for those interested in the BlackHawk Warrior Wear, you can get them here for almost half the price: BlackHawk Desert Warrior Wear
     
  14. Infantry_Dad

    Infantry_Dad Member

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    If interested in the Garmont T8's this place has a decent price on them:

    lapolicegear.com
     
  15. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Thanks. So at that price of $115, I took a close look at them to try to understand how they are the same or different from the Kyhber Mountain Hybrid by Belleville.

    Here's my impression:

    1. The sole on the Blackhawk is definitely thicker, and stiffer. Also one advertisement said they have a steel shank under the midsole (don't know if this is true or not), which would definitely make them stiffer. That can be good, indifferent, or bad depending on how a person's foot likes steel shank support. This is not trivial. Many think a steel shank, which reduces the degree of sole flexing, but also adds a slight rebounding effect, makes long treks easier on the feet.

    2. The Khybers are marketed by Belleville as being good for hot weather, and were specifically designed for the heat and loose rocks of Afghanistan. They have two grommetted vent holes about an inch above the footbed... this aids in quick ventilation, and quick exit of water if the boot gets flooded. They also have much more pronounced heel and toe vertical wrap around of the sole material, which aids in rock climbing, descending. So basically the Khybers (Khyber is a type of Afghan mountain goat) are made to optimize effective rock/hill climbing and descending in hot weather.

    3. The Blackhawks do not have the grommetted vent holes, so they appear to be much more resistant to filling with water in the first place while walking through a stream than the Khybers (so no need for exit holes). This also means they have less air venting in hot weather.

    It appears these two boots might be optimized by their designers for different conditions... the Blackhawk for all-around, the Khybers for hot/dry/loose rock terrain and not so much for wet conditions. I couldn't find the weight of each, but I suspect the Blackhawk is slightly heavier due to sole thickness and steel shank. Don't know where the Blackhawks are made... the Khybers, as opposed to most Belleville, are made in China.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2013
  16. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    OP, I finally did find a phrase like your son used in researching the Blackhawk boots -- "Urban Assault Boot". So your son did probably hear that phrase. And it basically means the whole class of boot that is designed to combine the traction, light weight, and comfort of a tennis shoe, with the support of a traditional military boot. The same as all five that are listed above.
     
  17. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    Son's ROTC gave them Bellevilles. He got warm and cold weather. They seemed to work fine for him thru LTC, he wore both. They don't weigh much, not enough that you will notice. The people in his unit that complain about them would complain about whatever they were given.

    He bought a pair of Nike's to wear around campus just because he wanted to, but they won't last long in the field.

    Go with whatever fits your foot the best.
     
  18. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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    I don't know if any old timers feels this whole subject is strange (as have all the other "boot" related threads) but whatever happened to wearing what Uncle Sam issues you?

    I fully admit that I was shocked to experience the lack of quality gear I was issued while on active duty. As an avid backpacker I knew you could get better boots, backpacks and sleeping bags. I cursed the GSA for its procurement policies.

    But I never had any options. I wore what was issued and dealt with it. I don't remember any options to purchase civilian gear and probably wouldn't have done it anyway. (too frugal, didn't want to stand out as a prima donna, etc)

    However, I am sad to see the commentary on all the civilian options available to our military personnel. We are not far from a situation where everyone of means buys their own gear and those with less means "suffer" with what is issued.

    It just seems that "the system" should serve our active duty personnel better than this. It hasn't gotten better over the years... it has gotten worse. Offering people the chance to buy their own gear will never make the situation better.

    Feel free to toss these late night ramblings...
     
  19. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    THIS. None of the three boots on the USMA boot list for use at BEAST the past three years has been a standard issue boot at USMA or any ROTC Battalion (that I am aware of). How come the cadets at USMA know which boots work, and the "system" doesn't? Strange.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2013
  20. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    DS (MS1) complained that on rucks his feet hurt and the issued boots were uncomfortable. He was going to try to make due by getting some Dr.Scholls inserts. We found a source for a Reebok boot that in his words are
    "Incredible". They fit him perfectly and were true to size. He is trying out for the Ranger challenge this weekend so they should get some good use. I will report back on the boots as I get information.
     

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