Branching After ROTC

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by ScottW, May 25, 2011.

  1. ScottW

    ScottW Member

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    I understand that the needs of the army come first.

    I understand there is a lot that goes into which branch you get.

    So assuming there were minimum requirements to get number 1 on your wishlist of branches, what would they be? Like in terms of GPA, PT Test, leadership roles, etc.

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Are you asking to go down the list branch by branch?

    On a whole to get your number one choice your min should be max scores. Walking in with a premise of meeting or beating the mins rarely results in a positive outcome.

    Every yr it is going to be different. There will be a median and a mean, but because manpower requirements vary yr to yr and the size of the pool varies yr to yr. What is the min for current stds could be totally different in 4 yrs, it could be higher, it could be lower or it could be the same.

    Not trying to be ambiguous. Just trying to illustrate that the min should not be used as the bar to obtain, and that the max should be what you always strive for. I would hate to see you enter with data, only to come to find out yrs from now that it is out of date.

    Our DS is AFROTC (2012 commissioning), but let me give an example. Back in 08 when he entered the min for SFT (LDAC) was 3.0 cgpa, 96 PFT, when he went ly, in 10, the min was hovering over 3.2 cgpa and 97 PFT. This yr for 11 the min at his det was 3.4 and 97 PFT was iffy. Had you entered with the mins as the bar, in 09 using 08 stats you would not get SFT. No SFT, means no C300, no 300 means no career board, but another SFT board, fighting to go as a passed over 200.

    There are a lot of hurdles, and many of them will go into your OML equation. You need to clear the 1st hurdles and build upon that foundation, if you do it properly and successfully you will be competitive.

    In other words, good to have long term goals, but you need to keep your focus on the short term so you can achieve the long term.
     
  3. gojack

    gojack ....

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    Accessions determined by Order of merit list LINK
    OLM = 40% GPA, 25% LDAC Score, 20% PMS Eval, AFPT 15% (rounded)
    Average GPA to be in top 10% OLM = 3.75

    If your first choice is a less popular field; Quartermaster, Signal, Transportation etc., then if you are above the Active Duty Selection Line on the OLM you will get your choice. If you want one of the most competitive fields, Aviation, Infantry, Military Police etc., then you need to be in the top 10% on the OLM to have it guaranteed. But if you are top 20% it's highly probable.

    Rules of Thumb;
    -Work hard and do well at all the ROTC stuff,
    (remembering that attitude and attendance count for a lot)
    Get a 3.75 GPA and pick your job,
    Get a 3.5 and plan on your job, but have a second choice.
    3.0-3.5 *Pray for a good job
    *You can trade 3 more yrs for job of choice
    Drop below - 3.0 start planning on NG/AR

    All based on historical data, a big budget cut, which is likely, will change these numbers a lot.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Not trying to divert the thread, but curious what NROTC's OML is based on, because +/- a few % points that is sim to AFROTC. Which makes me question if they all have a formula that is sim.

    On the USMA thread, there is a sim. question, but it is was specifically about getting infantry out of the USMA compared to AROTC.
    That leaves me to ask people like clarkson, when they divide the OML in half, does that mean top 50% on the OML get infantry, and then they rack and stack the top 50%?

    AFROTC has something sim with the rated slots, AFA cadets get 1st choice, basically if you want to fly and are medically qual, you can fly. From there they give the left overs to ROTC and OCS and you battle it out where the OML score determines if you make the cut.

    Also, does AROTC do the same as AFROTC, OML determines when you go AD operationally. The lower the score the longer you wait. I understand that AROTC has different ways to payback, thus, I am assuming the lower the OML not only impacts if you can go AD, but it will also determine when you go AD.

    Just curious from a learning pov. I have a rising sr who wants to do forensic science as a career, so CID is in his purview.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  5. ScottW

    ScottW Member

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    Thanks guys. Just so I'm clear, I wasn't going to shoot for the minimum. I just wanted to know where I would fall right now. So I'm just going to stay as close to a 4.0 as possible and stay in shape now. The reason I say this is because the two branches I would love to get would be MI or MP, so I know I need to work my butt off. Again thanks for all the info.
     
  6. gojack

    gojack ....

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    My DS is also interested in MI, be aware that many MI slots are MAJ or above,
    so MI is part of the "Branch Detail Program". Usually serve in one of the combat arms through company commander then into MI as a Major.
     
  7. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    gojack...that info is a little inaccurate. The reason it is one of the detail branches is that it is there are more LT slots than Captain slots in the combat Arms, and more captain slots in the Support and Service Support branches. Typically you won't command a company in your detail branch, so you will tranfer into you basic branch (MI in this case) when you make Captain, and start lining yourself up for a command.
     
  8. gojack

    gojack ....

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    Thanks for the correction, that's why you are so great to have here...
    So Combat Arms for about 4-6 yrs - Then over to MI?
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2011
  9. ScottW

    ScottW Member

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    I was told that more than likely if I was selected for MI I would be in combat arms until I made Captain or 1LT if I was lucky, then transfer to MI. Then I was told that if I was selected for MP then I would go straight to MP. Glad to here the same thing from more than one person.
     
  10. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    I would say it's 50-50 to go directly to MI. If you plan to be a career MI officer you should probably strive to go right in and get MI platoon time. I know there are going to be people who will tell you different. I was branched infantry and ended up in Signal. Essentially I was detailed (before there had such a thing). The pros were that I had a better appreciation of the units I eventually supported. I was able to go to Ranger school, which set me apart from my signal peers (for better or worse). The con was that I didn't "grow up" in a signal battalion, so I did not have the same visibility as my peers to the people that chose who would command. I had to get in line behind the home grown Captains for company command.

    But...these are the things that are way out of your control at this point. Remember that you may end up falling in love with Field Artillery and never look back. You may end up in the guard or reserves. The Army may draw down and there may not be an LT slot for you when you graduate. Do the best you can, explore all your options, and have fun.
     
  11. irishfan9

    irishfan9 Member

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    If I knew I wanted to branch in combat arms (Infantry or Armor), other than keeping up a good GPA is there anything else I can do to better my chances to get one of those branches after I commission?
     
  12. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    There are far to many things to list here.

    The best advice, don't put the cart before the horse, a lot of you haven't even started college or ROTC yet.

    So much can change in regard to what branch, or, active/reserve. In the 3 years I have watched my son go through ROTC I have heard him comment on how many times cadets change their minds. 2 cadets he started with were so Gung Ho active infantry they thought about getting tatoos, it's 3 years later and both have signed with the National Guard for Aviation. One cadet came into the ROTC planning on making the Army a career, he dropped the program after one semester. Things change, wait until you get your feet wet before you focus too much on what your branch will be.

    It's great to say you are going to stay close to a 4.0 but realize that's not as easy as you think. Don't stress out before you even get there, this is more a 5k then a sprint. You are going to have a lot thrown at you quickly, it can take some time to adjust. Over the next four years it's possible the goal may shift from getting the branch you want to just being able to get active duty.

    Just remember what the goal should be; Graduate college, and commission, everything else will fall as it should. Every branch in the Army is important, they all have their plus and minus, the one thing they all have in common is that you will put on the same uniform and be an officer in the US Army.
     
  13. gojack

    gojack ....

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    Some Ideas;
    • Join Ranger Challenge, Color Guard and other ROTC organizations
    • APFT SCORE
    • Don't miss any ROTC classes, and get good grades
    • Take some critical language and Cultural awareness classes
    • Summer Schooling, Airborne, Air Assault etc.,
    • Volunteer for everything
    • Most importantly be a team guy, help your classmates succeed
      (ie., tutor a cadet, contribute to the unit)
    • Join an competitive athletic team Running, marksmanship, swimming, Orienteering
      (Two for one if you do something that is a sport and helps you at LDAC)
     
  14. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    Your OML score is how your branch will be determined, how you get that score doesn't have much impact on the process. Whether you got your OML points doing Ranger Challenge, or whether you were on the cheerleading squad (no offense to cheerleaders). you'll still score OML points. Can't say enough that grades play the biggest role. Get a 4.0 in phys ed or peace studies, and it's the same 4.0.

    With regard to combat arms Infantry is wicked hard to get. Armor is a small branch, so it's not easy to get that branch. Be prepared to "settle" for field artillery or air defense if combat arms is your goal. Remember too that as a supporter you can still serve down range. As a brand new signal platoon leader I was supporting the infantry, and my soldiers and I went everywhere the grunts went. Jcleppe is right. Don't over think this stuff. You probably have no idea what it really takes to do any of these jobs, but you will learn.
     
  15. Marist College ROTC

    Marist College ROTC Member

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    Branching Infantry

    4 ways to improve your chances at being branched Infantry:

    1) Attend CTLT at an Infantry unit. Having a successful 3-6 week spell as an Infantry PL will speak strongly about your potential to serve in that branch.

    2) Attend and complete some of the more physically challenging courses while a cadet. Volunteer for Airborne, Air Assault, Mountain Warfare, etc

    3) Volunteer for Branch Detail. You might get assigned as an AG Officer but still get to serve 3 1/2 years as an LT in the Infantry.

    4) Commission into the National Guard. If you go that route you have the ability to interview for any open 2LT position in the branch. If that BN CDR accepts you into the unit, you have effectively picked your branch and duty position.
     
  16. gojack

    gojack ....

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    Marist
    I would like to know more about CTLT
    -how to qualify
    -who can go
    -how to apply
    -how units are assigned
    -Just everything you know :biggrin:
     
  17. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I can tell you how CTLT worked at my son's school, he just completed his MS3 year.

    The school had 3 CTLT slots:

    Quartermaster
    Signal Corps
    82nd Airborne Infantry Ft. Bragg

    The cadets did not apply for the slots, the cadre gave them to cadets based on their position on the battalion OML. My son was #1 on the list so he had first choice, he chose the 82nd Airborne, then came the #2 and #3 cadets. Each were offered a slot, a couple cadets had other school internships and passed on CTLT so they moved down the list to fill the CTLT slots.

    The only requirement was for the 82nd Airborne slot, the cadet attending needed to be Airborne Qualified, my son had completed Airborne school the previous summer so he was good to go.

    I believe that only cadets that have completed their MS3 year can do CTLT, my son will be leaving directly from LDAC for the 82nd Airborne Ft. Bragg.

    I have been told that there are sometimes CTLT slots that are available after LDAC, they offer these slots to cadets completing LDAC, Marist may have more information on this.

    Like everything in ROTC the OML is king, the higher you are on the list the more opportunities you will have. It is a competition from day one. There are cadets like my son who have been able to go to a summer training school and CTLT, there are also cadets that have not gone to either. My son goes to a smaller school so most have been able to get at least one opportunity, some larger schools just have so many cadets that there will be those that don't get the opportunity. The cadre is always working hard to get as many slots as possible.
     
  18. paradoxer

    paradoxer Member

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    Summer

    I'm assuming because of limited slots you can't get more than one training opportunity each summer, but is it possible time wise?
     
  19. Marist College ROTC

    Marist College ROTC Member

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    CTLT

    At my BN we get about 8 Airborne slots, 5 CTLT, 2 DCLT slots, 2 NSDP slots, and 1 MTN WF slot per Summer. We also have an unlimited number of Air Assault slots.

    Personnel are chosen by suitability, availability, and interest. When there are more than 1 interested, available, and qualified candidate, we go by OML.

    You can find much of the information about CTLT by doing a google search. If you have an AKO account, you will find the info here:

    https://www.us.army.mil/suite/kc/12809671

    As always, the best guidance is to let your instructor know what you are interested in. Most instructors are happy to put the work in to get a slot for a motivated cadet.
     
  20. gojack

    gojack ....

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    CTLT = Cadet Troop Leader Training
    DCLT = Drill Cadet Leader Training?
    NSDP = ???

    Are these ever available?
    -Army SCUBA
    -Sandhurst
    -Cadet Survival Training at USAFA
    -Nijmegen March
    -University Officer Training Center United Kingdom
    Internships?
    -Intelligence and Security Command Internship Program
     

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