Can navy recruiters manipulate NROTC process

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Hockeydad, Apr 4, 2016.

  1. Hockeydad

    Hockeydad Member

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    Here is a story for those who know more about how the NROTC process works. My DS started filling out his NROTC application in August 2015 shortly after completing his USMMA and USNA applications. Before he even completed or submitted the NROTC application, he had a Navy Recruiter wanting to meet with him to "help him through the process." The next thing I knew, this recruiter had talked my son into signing up for the delayed entry Navy Nuclear program with grand pronouncements about after he completed the 2 year nuke program he was "almost certain" to get a USNA appointment since they "had special spots set aside for this graduates in USNA." I noticed the same people involved with the Navy recruiting for delayed entry were also involved in the NROTC process. Flash forward to today and my DS has received an appointment to the USMMA and is on the waiting list for USNA, but we haven't heard word one from NROTC. NROTC never even initiated a waiver process for childhood asthma that USNA and USMMA granted waivers for long ago. My wife thinks that these recruiters manipulated the NROTC process in my son's case because they thought they had him in the Navy Nuke program and were pleased he was helping them fill their quota for Navy Nuke. Could this be the case? He received Senate and Congressional nominations for the USNA and isn't it much more competitive than NROTC? Likely, the don't "have him" because I'm fairly certain he will chose USMMA if he doesn't get the USNA appointment, but they've even tried to undermine that decision. I've become somewhat jaded about navy recruiters through this process. Any comments appreciated from a father not sleeping too well the past month!
     
  2. NAVYHOPEFUL2019

    NAVYHOPEFUL2019 Member

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    Dont know the answer to your above ques however NROTC scholarships are just as competitive as service academy appts, sometimes even more so as you are chosen on a national level, not according to geography.
     
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  3. AJC

    AJC Member

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    They cannot get him in or keep him out.
    They will tell you anything to get you to enlist.
    They have a mission and have been trained to execute it.
    Beware.
     
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  4. 5Day

    5Day Member

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    This does not sound right. Has your DS submitted an NROTC scholarship application? You should be able to check on his NROTC portal to see the status of his application.
     
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  5. Oldsalt

    Oldsalt Member

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    What 5day said. A quick login will tell you if they processed his application.
    OS
     
  6. Hockeydad

    Hockeydad Member

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    Yes, my son submitted his NROTC application long ago and his status is "still no decision". He's been accepted to 4 of the 5 universities he listed and is deferred at one. We also called and they said everything is in order but no decision has been made. That was two weeks ago. At that time, he told me 4 of the 14 boards were still ahead. But I think everything is to be done by April 15th, right?

    I just checked his NROTC again and it still says "No decision has been made on your application" and above that "all required items have been processed." Both of those have been the same for months.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2016
  7. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ Member

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    Very sorry to hear this. Most recruiters color between the lines, but quotas hang over their heads, and the dirty tricks bag comes out.

    A grain of truth is that many enlisted come right out of the Navy nuke training pipeline to USNA, based on testing and aptitude. No guarantees, of course.

    I am appalled by the blurring of lines between enlisted recruiting and NROTC, which I would not have thought possible. Two different worlds - but both competing for the same talent pool out of HS.

    Once your DS is safely where he is supposed to be next fall, or whenever you deem his situation is solid, I strongly encourage you to write the Navy Inspector General with specifics - names, dates, actions, concerns, full story. Gather your info while fresh.

    During one "stash duty" for 3 months between PCS orders, I headed 3 separate Secretary of the Navy IG investigations into recruiting irregularities. Bad apples should be removed. Their actions taint the above-board actions of others and make prospects and families rightfully wary. Facts will be gathered, and appropriate action taken, whether corrective, disciplinary or other remedy, as the case dictates.

    http://www.secnav.navy.mil/ig/Pages/ComplaintProcedure.aspx

    I fully admit I avoided recruiting duty like the plague, preferring "normal" Navy operational pressure to recruiting world production pressure which built like a runaway locomotive nearing the end of each month. Just not comfortable for me.
     
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  8. Hockeydad

    Hockeydad Member

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    Thank you. I will do that.
     
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  9. EOD/SEALmom

    EOD/SEALmom Member

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    My DD originally planned to enlist if not offered an appointment to USNA and had talked with the recruiter quite a bit. Then she found the SMC's (never heard of them until November!), and she decided to apply for NROTC.

    The same recruiter would handle her NROTC app. She started the application in early November, had everything she needed to do finished within a week. Then....he stopped returning phone calls or emails. She's handled all of this application process without any help from her dad or I, but I started to question when her application wasn't complete a month later. Finally in mid-December I had DD call somebody else in the office.....turned out the guy took a full month of vacation and just left her application to the side. Who the heck takes the entire month of December off?!?!

    The other recruiter took over, but her application was not in until the day before the final board. She was denied.

    I'm not blaming the recruiter that she was denied. No idea if she'd have had a better chance at an earlier board. But it left a bad taste in our mouths when he left her application in his desk for over a month.
     
  10. T.Valiant

    T.Valiant Member

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    Hockeydad: While it won't help your situation or make you feel any better, your DS must have gotten the 'bad apple' or my DS got very lucky. The local Navy recruiter that processed my DS' application was professional, helpful and supportive. I was worried about the pressure tactics, but the topic of enlisting was never mentioned.

    I probably won't go to the IG, but I would consider having my DS call or visit the recruiting station commander. I'm certain he or she would want to know what's going on in his/her command. Even if it's too late for your DS, maybe next year could be better for another kid.
     
  11. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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    Hockeydad: I am sorry to hear your story and the perceptions your family has formed. Can the application process be manipulated? I am sure it can be as can the legal process, food stamps, or any other process. I am confident that the vast majority of recruiters are hard working, honorable, rule following, and ethical representatives of their branches. They have difficult jobs and tough quotas. I am sure there are a few bad apples in the bunch. The lines can get blurred as the pool of candidates between enlisted programs and officer ascension programs is the same. The recruiters have a mission and are trained well. They are trained to handle objections, indecision and confusion. The statements made may not be lies but could fall within shades of grey. This push to join the DEP to show your interest or for future opportunities is one of them. I have seen it personally (with my DS) and in the posts of other members here. Fortunately, I knew enough to guide my son - those families without military experience can become confused and feel misled. There is usually a kernel of truth in the discussions.

    From your second post here, it sounds like the application was sent in and is still pending. NROTC won't send him to the DODMERB exam until a scholarship is awarded so there is no smoking gun there. Not surprised that the recruiters would try to "undermine" the other branches - its part of our culture. In short, I am not sure there is any reason to suspect foul play or complacency by the recruiters.

    If I read your original post correctly, your DS did in fact sign the DEP forms. If so, you should make sure to understand what was agreed to and what the options are. I believe he can be released if he is accepted into another commissioning program - but you both need to be crystal clear on the details.

    Best of luck to your DS.
     
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  12. 5Day

    5Day Member

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    There are 2 more boards. One this week with scholarship notification 22 April and the last board on 18-22 April with notification before 1 May. Best of luck.
     
  13. Hockeydad

    Hockeydad Member

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    Thank you!
     
  14. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ Member

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    http://www.cnrc.navy.mil/

    Select NRC Commands tab to figure out where to provide feedback at a lower level. The geographical District oversees all the individual recruiting stations.

    SECNAV IG would be the most formal route. In two of the IG investigations I did, there was a blind eye turned at the District level, creating an unhealthy climate that encouraged shading to the darkest shades of gray.

    Ditto USMCgrunt - most recruiters work hard to bring quality talent aboard in an ethical, transparent manner.
     
  15. AJC

    AJC Member

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    Back in the day I did DEP with the Navy. Signing the initial paperwork is largely symbolic.
    The fact is until you stand between the flags and raise your hand they do not have you.
     
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  16. swrakow

    swrakow Member

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    My DD had to stay on top of the recruiter assigned to manage her NROTC package. He would not return calls or emails for weeks on end. All of the paperwork was "in" (according to the recruiter) and she had to beg and plead to get the interview set up. After the interview, where she was told to turn in some additional paperwork that had to be signed in front of the interviewer, that paperwork was lost. Once re-done, she finally had everything complete just a few days before the application deadline. Keep in mind that she began the process in September and was told she had everything completed. In the end, she was boarded and received an NROTC scholarship. That came through in late Feb. Since then, we've been waiting for an eye waiver. All DODMERB stuff and remedials were completed in October for SA apps. (with waiver to USMMA granted already.) With deadlines approaching and deposits due, it would be nice to know about the waiver before committing to a school - can't afford the tuition otherwise.
     
  17. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    We Also had a bad experience with NROTC and a separate enlisted Navy recruiter. For DD she was contacted by a recruiter and led to believe it was for an interview for NROTC but it was to try to talk her into enlisting for the nuke program...not cool!!! For DS he went through NROTC process and the whole thing was FUBAR ! Recruiter came to school and said he needed letters of recommendation that day from his teachers and then virtually no contact unless initiated by DS, total mess and not very professional. I would guess form the sheer numbers of complaints like this there must be a real problem on both fronts.
     
  18. Akrogan

    Akrogan Member

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    IMO the solution to these issues could be:
    1. Give recruiters more reason to get kids into NROTC, because currently, their goal is to get enlisted members, not NROTC midshipmen.

    2. Make it like AF, where the candidates to then closest detachment/battalion for an interview.

    Just my 2 cents
     
  19. UAF32

    UAF32 Member

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    The recruiting guys here were great with my son. We visited with them last spring about NROTC and Navy Reserve as a backup in case he chose one of his favorites schools that did not have NROTC and they began pushing him on the NROTC application right away which we had planned anyway. They brought him in to review his essays and gave him suggestions. The regional guy in Dallas was up one day and had DS come in to speak with him about the application and essays. Once it was all done they pushed their part through quickly and it was all done in a month or so. The guys were very helpful and never mislead him or tried to sway him away from it. He was eventually awarded a scholarship.

    Interestingly enough, a couple of months ago, a different Navy recruiter who was pushing the Nuke program visited my son's AP Physics class and found out from the teacher that one of his students, my son, had a NROTC scholarship. The recruiter used that to sell the Navy to the rest of the students he visited with that day. It was a fun situation for my son because others came up to him and starting asking about it.
     
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  20. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ Member

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    Refining my two posts on this, go to the Contact Us tab at the CNRC (Commander, Navy Recruiting Command). You will find the CNRC IG (Inspector General) phone number. I think that is the best place to go with a specific complaint, recruiting leadership, before going to SECNAV IG. They would task it out to CNRC IG anyway - and no one likes to hear from the big boss about a problem before they have had a chance to address it.

    It just occurred to me that CNRC would have its own IG at that level. Below SECNAV, above Recruiting District Commander (who would be pressing the field recruiters to make quotas).
     

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