Car insurance for your cadet - save some $$$
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Christcorp
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Devildog, yes, when you insure your cars, it is the cars you are insuring. However, there are a ton of options you are paying for. Besides all the coverages like what's included in the liability and full coverage portions, you are paying for the type of driving and the mileage a person will put on the vehicle. Whether it's a friend borrowing my car, or my son when he's home on vacation, they are considered low mileage use occurrences. They are included on your policy. Individuals in your household are considered heavy/heavier users; thus more miles; thus the increased chance of an accident. That is why they normally ask who will be the primary driver of which vehicle. They also price adjust for how many miles a year on average each car will have.
Now, each state (Regulated by the state board of insurance and legislation), determines the maximum amount of premium they are allowed to charge you. This is based on how many accidents occur per year in your zip code area, as well are the congestion and other attributes. That's why insurance prices aren't the same in all 50 states. As luigi mentioned, the insurance company is in business to make money. You can't blame them. And contrary to what some political pundits might say, the insurance company isn't always the bad guy. They are gambling that you won't have accidents. And hopefully you won't. But you might also live in an area where there's a lot of them by other people. You said you have 6 cars and 2 bikes. I'm not quite that many, but I have 5 cars and 1 bike. You are paying $675 PER MONTH. Well guess what, I DON'T PAY THAT MUCH IN THE ENTIRE 6 MONTH POLICY!!! Then again, I live in Wyoming. We don't have as many things to hit with a car out here. Thus, less claims. Thus, lower premiums for everyone. 1 full coverage, 4 liabilities, and a liability on the motorcycle for me, wife, son, and daughter is roughly $640 for 6 month policy.
Anyway, that's why while your car is what's insured, the cost goes up when you add "Full time" drivers to the policy; basically, the odds of more mileage on the vehicle(s), and thus greater odds of an accident. Mike...
Now, each state (Regulated by the state board of insurance and legislation), determines the maximum amount of premium they are allowed to charge you. This is based on how many accidents occur per year in your zip code area, as well are the congestion and other attributes. That's why insurance prices aren't the same in all 50 states. As luigi mentioned, the insurance company is in business to make money. You can't blame them. And contrary to what some political pundits might say, the insurance company isn't always the bad guy. They are gambling that you won't have accidents. And hopefully you won't. But you might also live in an area where there's a lot of them by other people. You said you have 6 cars and 2 bikes. I'm not quite that many, but I have 5 cars and 1 bike. You are paying $675 PER MONTH. Well guess what, I DON'T PAY THAT MUCH IN THE ENTIRE 6 MONTH POLICY!!! Then again, I live in Wyoming. We don't have as many things to hit with a car out here. Thus, less claims. Thus, lower premiums for everyone. 1 full coverage, 4 liabilities, and a liability on the motorcycle for me, wife, son, and daughter is roughly $640 for 6 month policy.
Anyway, that's why while your car is what's insured, the cost goes up when you add "Full time" drivers to the policy; basically, the odds of more mileage on the vehicle(s), and thus greater odds of an accident. Mike...
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DevilDog - I agree on the theory as well - if everyone else is saying that it's the CAR that's insured, not the people driving it, then how come adding my two teenaged sons on to our policy in the past couple years tripled our rates? 
Christcorp
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DevilDog - I agree on the theory as well - if everyone else is saying that it's the CAR that's insured, not the people driving it, then how come adding my two teenaged sons on to our policy in the past couple years tripled our rates?
Would insuring a car that sat in the driveway, and NEVER WENT 1 MILE in a year, cost less or more than the same car that is driven 15,000 miles in that same year? Obviously less. You can't have an accident if you aren't driving it. While it is the car that's being insured, it's people that put on the mileage. And every state I've lived in with car insurance (12 states), has always asked the average amount of miles I thought I'd put on a car. And when the primary car that my son drove during high school became much less used because he left for the academy, and my son's status changed to "Away at college", the insurance for that vehicle went down about $80 ever 6 months. Because my wife and I were the primary drivers of the other vehicles. And while all of them are covered, the insurance company knows that we can only drive 1 car at a time. 5 cars, 1 motorcycle, and only 2 people. 2 years later, my son is taking one of those cars to the academy with him. (Actually, he leaves this morning to go back down). That vehicle will now get "MORE" miles than it did when there was only 2 of us. Thus, the premiums go up. Ours is going up about $100 per 6 months. (Different cars than we had 2 years ago.).
And the type of miles put on, meaning congested city, teenager primary driver, etc... Also affects the premium. It's the car that's insured, but it's people who put the miles on the car.
Cars are insured, but the rating for that insurance is based on the driver(s) of the vehicle.
If you have a great driving record and lots of experience, your rating will be great. Throw a brand new teenage driver on the policy and they have no experience to go by. So they go by statistics and frankly, statistics for teenage drivers stink. Especially now that you add in cell phones and texting. As if they didn't have enough distraction with 3 other teenagers in the car.
Here in NC, a new driver (licensed less than 3 years defines new driver) will drastically increase the cost of insurance. However, they will let you assign your teenager to a particular vehicle. So we put our teen drivers on our 17 year old vehicle that had only liability. So it still increased the policy, but not as much as if they were the primary on the newer vehicles, yet they are still covered when they drive the other cars.
Like it has been said though. Every state is different. If I was still in Ca. I probably wouldn't have been able to afford to put my kids on any insurance policy.
Unfortunately it is the sad state of things.
As for medical. Yes, we pay up big time for that too. But glad to do it. My daughter was recently prescribed a medication that would cost about $25,000/year. It is working great and it doesn't cost me a penny because the drug manufacture picks up the $50 monthly copay and the insurance pays the rest. If not for the insurance, she would have to do without. So all those years I paid and did nothing but get physicals each year all turned out to be worth it.
If you have a great driving record and lots of experience, your rating will be great. Throw a brand new teenage driver on the policy and they have no experience to go by. So they go by statistics and frankly, statistics for teenage drivers stink. Especially now that you add in cell phones and texting. As if they didn't have enough distraction with 3 other teenagers in the car.
Here in NC, a new driver (licensed less than 3 years defines new driver) will drastically increase the cost of insurance. However, they will let you assign your teenager to a particular vehicle. So we put our teen drivers on our 17 year old vehicle that had only liability. So it still increased the policy, but not as much as if they were the primary on the newer vehicles, yet they are still covered when they drive the other cars.
Like it has been said though. Every state is different. If I was still in Ca. I probably wouldn't have been able to afford to put my kids on any insurance policy.
Unfortunately it is the sad state of things.
As for medical. Yes, we pay up big time for that too. But glad to do it. My daughter was recently prescribed a medication that would cost about $25,000/year. It is working great and it doesn't cost me a penny because the drug manufacture picks up the $50 monthly copay and the insurance pays the rest. If not for the insurance, she would have to do without. So all those years I paid and did nothing but get physicals each year all turned out to be worth it.
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A couple days ago I told our State Farm agent to drop our son (class of 2014) from our policy. This was after a lengthy previous discussion about his situation and a subsequent call from them to confirm whether or not he is being paid by the Air Force. This must have been be an important factor to them.
When I asked if we decided to drop him from the policy whether he'd be covered for the six weeks / year or so that he's back home with us I was told that as long as we granted him permission to use our car that he would indeed be covered. This would be no different than if relatives of ours were visiting from out of town and we let them use our car.
I was really surprised though that this was such a back & forth negotiation with State Farm. You'd think they've been through this before...?
I also checked with our BMV (Indiana) as to whether our son's driver's license would be in any jeopardy of being pulled if he was dropped from our insurance. The answer was no.
When I asked if we decided to drop him from the policy whether he'd be covered for the six weeks / year or so that he's back home with us I was told that as long as we granted him permission to use our car that he would indeed be covered. This would be no different than if relatives of ours were visiting from out of town and we let them use our car.
I was really surprised though that this was such a back & forth negotiation with State Farm. You'd think they've been through this before...?
I also checked with our BMV (Indiana) as to whether our son's driver's license would be in any jeopardy of being pulled if he was dropped from our insurance. The answer was no.
Christcorp
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A driver's license has absolutely nothing to do with insurance. There are plenty of people who have a license and don't even own a car. They rent one when needed. Living in NYC, we never had a car. Subway and buses were our means of transportation. We'd rent a car if we were going out of the city.
that may be the case in most states, but in NC you need to provide proof of liability insurance to get a license. When we dropped our son from our State Farm policy, approx 2 weeks later he received a letter from the DMV notifying him to surrender his license or provide proof of liability insurance.
Proof of Liability Insurance:
Proof of liability insurance includes providing insurance documents such as:
DMV form DL-123;
or an original liability insurance policy binder;
or an insurance card with: your name, policy number, issue and expiration date.
The liability insurance documents must show your name, the effective date of policy, the expiration date of the policy, and the date the policy was issued.
Proof of Liability Insurance:
Proof of liability insurance includes providing insurance documents such as:
DMV form DL-123;
or an original liability insurance policy binder;
or an insurance card with: your name, policy number, issue and expiration date.
The liability insurance documents must show your name, the effective date of policy, the expiration date of the policy, and the date the policy was issued.
Christcorp
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And what if you were to tell the DMV that you're an independent business man, and you fly all over the country, and you RENT cars when you land. To be honest, even though this is totally of topic, I'd be calling the attorney general and raising one hell of a gripe. You don't need a car to have a license. And if you don't have a car, you sure in hell don't need insurance. Just like you don't need a driver's license to drive a car on your private land. Even a 12 year old can drive a pickup on their private land if the parents say it's ok. The state has no say so.
As for NC requiring insurance in order to get a license, that's pretty difficult considering most insurance companies require you to give them your driver's license number; so they can do a background check on you in case you've had accidents; before they will give you insurance on a car. Sounds like NC is pulling a con job on it's citizens. I would definitely call the attorney general and raise a fuss. But again, that's a different topic.
As for NC requiring insurance in order to get a license, that's pretty difficult considering most insurance companies require you to give them your driver's license number; so they can do a background check on you in case you've had accidents; before they will give you insurance on a car. Sounds like NC is pulling a con job on it's citizens. I would definitely call the attorney general and raise a fuss. But again, that's a different topic.
Well it has been that way here in NC since I moved here from California in 95. Never been a problem. When it was time for my kids to get a license, I just called up state farm and they faxed me the form I needed for them.
I believe they have some provisions to get a license if you work someplace and need to drive, but you have to bring in something showing you are covered on the employers policy. I think they have a provisional license you can obtain that is only for fleet vehicles, which I presume would cover rentals. But if you get pulled with one and you are not in a fleet vehicle, I believe you go to jail.
Honestly, it keeps our rates low here, so I am all for it. we don't have nearly as many uninsured drivers as there were in California.
Not sure how it is a con job on the citizens. The law says you must have liability insurance to drive a car. If you don't have insurance, then you don't need a license. I don't know anybody that soley drives rental vehicles and if you take the bus to work and drive for your employment, your employer would have you covered and give you the proper form to get the license if you didn't have one already.
I believe they have some provisions to get a license if you work someplace and need to drive, but you have to bring in something showing you are covered on the employers policy. I think they have a provisional license you can obtain that is only for fleet vehicles, which I presume would cover rentals. But if you get pulled with one and you are not in a fleet vehicle, I believe you go to jail.
Honestly, it keeps our rates low here, so I am all for it. we don't have nearly as many uninsured drivers as there were in California.
Not sure how it is a con job on the citizens. The law says you must have liability insurance to drive a car. If you don't have insurance, then you don't need a license. I don't know anybody that soley drives rental vehicles and if you take the bus to work and drive for your employment, your employer would have you covered and give you the proper form to get the license if you didn't have one already.
Christcorp
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I guess it's all a matter of perspective. If you believe the government should have that much say so over your life, then it's probably not such a big thing. There are a lot of academy cadets in their first 2 years that have a license, but don't own cars. They borrow them. So, if you drop your son from your insurance, did he have to surrender his license? You said the DMV requested that he do so or prove he had insurance. So, does that mean if he's at the academy, he can't borrow someone else's car or rent one? Because he doesn't have a license. Or, did you put him back on your insurance so he could keep his license?
It is a con. We won't get into "Rights vs Privileges". But vehicles are insured, not the drivers. Insurance rates are affected by the "Type" of driver that will be driving the vehicle; but the driver themselves are not what's insured. If NC says you don't need a driver's license, because you don't own a car, and therefor don't have insurance, that is pure B.S. A service academy cadet is a prime example of needing a driver's license without owning a car or having liability insurance.
It is a con. We won't get into "Rights vs Privileges". But vehicles are insured, not the drivers. Insurance rates are affected by the "Type" of driver that will be driving the vehicle; but the driver themselves are not what's insured. If NC says you don't need a driver's license, because you don't own a car, and therefor don't have insurance, that is pure B.S. A service academy cadet is a prime example of needing a driver's license without owning a car or having liability insurance.
Well I am certainly no advocate of bigger government, that is for sure. But after living in Ca for long enough to have accidents with no less than 4 uninsured drivers, I am pretty much for whatever it takes to make sure drivers are insured.
when I moved from Ca to NC, my insurance dropped from 6000/yr to 1200/yr.
When you think about it. Comp/collision is for the car. Liability is for the driver. Comp/Collision is not required to get a license, just liability. They don't really care what happens to the car you are driving, they just want to make sure have insurance to cover the damage you do to others and other property, hence the liability. So no, insurance doesn't nessarily cover the car.
As for my cadet. simple, he got a Co license. No insurance required.
when I moved from Ca to NC, my insurance dropped from 6000/yr to 1200/yr.
When you think about it. Comp/collision is for the car. Liability is for the driver. Comp/Collision is not required to get a license, just liability. They don't really care what happens to the car you are driving, they just want to make sure have insurance to cover the damage you do to others and other property, hence the liability. So no, insurance doesn't nessarily cover the car.
As for my cadet. simple, he got a Co license. No insurance required.
Christcorp
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Exactly; he got a license in a state that didn't have some silly law. I'm not arguing with you. As I said, this is definitely off topic of the original post. 2 wrongs don't make a right. California..... Well, let's just say that there's a LOT of wrongs politically in California. But just because your insurance rates dropped in North Carolina, doesn't mean that North Carolina is right. Chances are, just about ANY state you would have moved to, your insurance rates would have gone down. I have insurance "Full coverage" on a 2009 RAV4, and liability on an F250 pickup, and liability on an Explorer, and liability on a Camry, and liability on a 66 mustang, and liability on a motorcycle. And ALL COMBINED, with me, my wife, and my cadet son on the policies; I pay about $600 every 6 months.
Here, you can't REGISTER a vehicle without at least liability. That's the way it should be. It's the car that causes damage during accidents. If you don't let a person register a car without insurance, then you don't have uninsured motorists. If they register the car, and then cancels their insurance, the insurance company contacts the DMV who suspends the vehicle's registration until proof of insurance is shown. And if a person is negligent enough to drive an unregistered vehicle, chances are, they'd drive a car without a license. And in many places where it's the illegal immigrants who are the large majority of uninsured motorists, because they can't get a license and legally buy cars and insurance, well... Let's just say that I have an opinion on that too. Anyway, I've said my peace. Maybe this thread can go back on track for those who still have an interest in it. Later... Mike....
Here, you can't REGISTER a vehicle without at least liability. That's the way it should be. It's the car that causes damage during accidents. If you don't let a person register a car without insurance, then you don't have uninsured motorists. If they register the car, and then cancels their insurance, the insurance company contacts the DMV who suspends the vehicle's registration until proof of insurance is shown. And if a person is negligent enough to drive an unregistered vehicle, chances are, they'd drive a car without a license. And in many places where it's the illegal immigrants who are the large majority of uninsured motorists, because they can't get a license and legally buy cars and insurance, well... Let's just say that I have an opinion on that too. Anyway, I've said my peace. Maybe this thread can go back on track for those who still have an interest in it. Later... Mike....
MakeItHappen
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Bottom line with insurance:
Read the policy and definitions very CAREFULLY. They vary wildly from state to state.
If you don't understand coverage, hire an attorney who handles auto claims to decipher what you have.
For Nationwide in Texas, I've never "added" my teen drivers. By the policy's terms, as members of the household, they are already covered.
I'm sure if I ever make a claim for a teen driver, NW will immediately alter future terms to exclude the teen or request a new premium be paid.