Choosing a major?

I really never thought of myself 40 years from now. With all of the frustration I've had trying to study engineering I just realize that I can't really see myself being an engineer for the next 40 years. I do though, see a degree in Chinese may be helpful as I would be fluent in three languages (Mandarin, Vietnamese, and English). Thank you for that insight ma'am.

Just to clarify something that made my DS's decision a little easier. At VMI during the first semester they carry five 1 credit classes taught by five different professors that have different specialties in ECE. He wasn't sure going in, and even after the first round of classes he thought he would change majors because he was initially exposed to circuit boards and their construction which bored him to tears. But after that, during the next 4 mini courses he got into different aspects of the field which he loved. So he knew that after the first semester at least then he could make an informed decision with the way VMI exposes them to the field from the beginning, and not be too far behind academically if he wanted to do something else. It might be worth looking into with the guidance of an Academic counselor at the school of your choice, or talking to AFROTC for their input as to "what if" I don't like it and want to change majors. Just don't do something that you know will be miserable for you. As one that has worked in the same field for 30+ years, I certainly wouldn't want to spend a third of my life hating it. Good luck.
 
While I do respect the experienced engineers here who are encouraging OP to proceed with the engineering degree "if he can handle the work", I'll agree that when he is finished with his service time, he will have a nicer looking resume.

However, if solving mechanical engineering problems isn't what comes naturally to him, he will get the first job OK, but will struggle in the industry if he doesn't move up the food chain (this can be said about any profession, BTW). And as jobs change (especially in engineering the likelyhood of working for one employer is very small), continually competing against younger and hungrier engineers as you get older is a recipe for failure. Let's face it, nobody hires a 50-year-old for a job a 30-year-old can do, despite the age discrimination laws on the books.

If you are doing something that makes you want to get out of bed in the morning, you are more likely to enjoy the extra hours of work/study necessary to keep moving up in any profession. And if you aren't motivated to keep up the career profession during the challenging years of raising a family, etc. you will find yourself on the outside looking in later in life.

While the "learn to love what you do" concept can work, just as pre-arranged marraiges work in many cultures, most of us here would not bet the farm on it and it takes a lot of self-dicipline over a lot of years to survive in a relationship where the love never existed.

This parent's philosophy has followed this line of reasoning and so far all involved are happy with the results. Expose the kid to different toys, games, activities (music,art,physical,reading,etc) and see what they respond to. Draw out of them what makes X thing so fun and expose them to more grown up activities that have a similar mindset. Observe what they watch on TV. Beyond the usual mindless trash, most will tune in at least one show with some redeeming value.

I grew up in a household of musicians (all 5 of us have perfect pitch). Some found the love of doing it for a living (2 brothers) despite my parents always pushing a more practical career as "Plan A". The musicians still have no regrets about spending part or all of their career time that way. Myself, I actually loved a "practical" discipline (Business) but have spent most of my career a bit off that path in IT and tend to end up trying to tie it back into my work. My sisters who "sold their souls" to the practical careers (accounting and finance) always seem to be talking about when they can finally retire. Doing OK financially, but the stress of an unhappy career definitely has affected their health.

When my daughter never opened a Barbie doll box at Xmas, decided to invite every boy in class over to play in kindergarten and not a single girl (the girls only do boring things as I remeber her telling me), and watched Cop shows and anything military on TV, it didn't surprise me when she asked me about the military and chose the CJ major. And I considered not only that interest, but what talent (let's face it, not every kid who says he wants to design video games because he likes to play them is a good fit) she possess. She has always demonstrated a great patience with difficult people and level headed decision making when in stressful situations. And while law enforcement is not one of those "trophy careers" that most parents dream about, it is honest (let's hope) and she definitely has traits I'd value in dealing with those professions (both military and law enforcement).

The most important part of this whole thing though is that she is driving the boat. She chooses the direction and if her experiences steers her in a slightly different direction, she will be driving her career as opposed to her career driving her.

It won't matter to me when I go to the grave that my daughter didn't make more money than her peers, but that I helped a wonderful person lead a happy life.
 
here here! Please notice my new tagline, sorry for stealing it, but no truer words can be spoken.
 
I feel as though I'm in between Bruno and GoalieDad on this one.

While it is true that loving your work will usually make you increasingly successful in it, a vast majority of successful people don't actually like their work ... they would either do it half time, or retire and never work again if it were financially feasible. This group includes those who are internally *driven*, compelled to succeed -- driven, not drawn.

OP, I don't enjoy taking out the trash, but I'm good at it. I don't enjoy doing my expense reports, but I'm good at those too. I am probably like most successful people... I actually like about a third of what I do, feel ambivalent about another third, and don't like the last third.

I say stay with Engineering, not for long-term career reasons, but because it provides you with an analytical framework to work in just about any industry. Methodical, logical problem solving is a developed skill prized in just about any business or non-profit endeavor. Many trained engineers are working in finance, accounting, the home, sales, operations, hospitals, schools, logistics ... but not as engineers -- as managers, problem solvers, goal attainers.

Stay in Engineering, if you can, not to become a professional practicing Engineer, but to gain from the necessary training that will benefit you in any career.
 
I think the point being made here is that majoring in engineering gets your foot in the door. You don't even have to be a practicing engineer for a host of job options to be open to you.

My father is a computer engineer/analyst at one of the large companies Bruno listed (he works with a lot of overseas companies in China, Japan, Mid-East etc). He is also is involved with the hiring process of new employees in his section. Over the years he has definitely been an advocate of STEM majors throughout my siblings as well as my own college experience. His praise of engineering doesn't specifically relate to engineering but the problem solving emphasis and drive of many graduates. They scoop up new engineers by the bushel every year and most go on to lead promising careers in IT, management etc.

I tend to be in agreement with him regarding the overhype surrounding China as a new big player and how the demand of Chinese speakers will rise. While knowing a foreign language can only help the fact of the matter is that Chinese speakers saturate the market. Majoring in Chinese boxes you in to a specific area where you can't branch out. The same boxing occurs with any other language major, performing arts major (not teaching based) etc.
 
They scoop up new engineers by the bushel every year and most go on to lead promising careers in IT, management etc.

You forgot to mention perhaps the most exciting and invigorating career on the planet earth -- intellectual property lawyer!

Engineers turned lawyers are truly a rare breed, and are truly in demand for this highly specialized area of the law!!

Back on topic.
 
However, if solving mechanical engineering problems isn't what comes naturally to him, he will get the first job OK, but will struggle in the industry if he doesn't move up the food chain (this can be said about any profession, BTW). And as jobs change (especially in engineering the likelyhood of working for one employer is very small), continually competing against younger and hungrier engineers as you get older is a recipe for failure.

As others have pointed out many engineering graduates don't do engineering work. I know engineering graduates that have never worked solving "engineering problems" but have done well. Some are in sales, quality assurance, production management, IT, technical writers, etc. Patentesq pointed this out but I have worked with several patent attorneys and patent examiners that have engineering degrees but have never practiced as engineers. The one thing that got each one of these people their jobs and careers was that engineering degree.
 
You forgot to mention perhaps the most exciting and invigorating career on the planet earth -- intellectual property lawyer!

Engineers turned lawyers are truly a rare breed, and are truly in demand for this highly specialized area of the law!!

Back on topic.

You don't have to be a techie to do all IP stuff. Patents, yes, but copyright stuff? I bet it helps to have an arts background. I'd love to work at the Copyright Office at LOC, or represent some of the big Drama publishers (Dramatists/French, etc.). I am a big fan of plays/musicals (I'm a community theatre actor, and I really wish I could do that for my job! :yllol:).
 
aglahad, pack and patent, you guys are spot on. I was thinking this AM, driving to work. Justice is starting to put the screws to BP and their subs. I'll bet at least a couple of attorneys on either side have an engineering undergrad degrees.

The only thing I would add is putting a real language facility with the engineering degree will put you well about your cohort without it. You would also be surprised how many children of immigrants don't speak their parents' tongue.
 
As others have pointed out many engineering graduates don't do engineering work. I know engineering graduates that have never worked solving "engineering problems" but have done well. Some are in sales, quality assurance, production management, IT, technical writers, etc. Patentesq pointed this out but I have worked with several patent attorneys and patent examiners that have engineering degrees but have never practiced as engineers. The one thing that got each one of these people their jobs and careers was that engineering degree.

I understand that a person can have a wide variety of careers with an engineering degree, but I will disagree with the statement that the engineering degree will necessarily get a person that job. Like I said before it looks good on the resume (gets you to the hiring interview), but if you don't have the mindset to do the problem solving required as any of the above mentioned professions (which BTW all could and are done by people with Business degrees as well) you either won't get the job or won't do well with it. The bookwork of an engineer does not prepare one to problem solve better than any other analytical degree.

I spent more than a decade working with engineering data (specifically fastening) in the auto industry and frequently found myself (with the Business Production Management degree) as the intermediary between the engineers and the purchasing folks and the product planning folks. I knew enough about how fastening applications were designed, validated, and integrated into the vehicle assembly that I was often confused for an engineer by many in the field. I also developed the depth of understanding of their engineering design process controls (an IT function) that I originated the release control systems design that is used to this date to manage change of not only fastening technologies, but any other technolgy change planning process. In a nut shell, when a company with many products makes a strategic decision on X technology, how and when to integrate it into the product planning and engineering systems.

Did it take an engineering degree to develop engineering systems? No. And trust me, I worked with many highly skilled engineers who could tell me why a certain thread/finish design for X application would be better with Y driving system, but failed to grasp the larger picture of optimizing the overall assembly process where optimum tooling for X application using Y system required a capital investment that far outstripped the cost of using perhaps a more expensive thread/finish design that works as well with the existing driving systems already in place at that workstation in most of the assembly plants over the volume ranges projected for the plants in question. These folks came from some of the top engineering schools in the country that screen for very high GPAs and test scores, but do not have admissions systems in place where the ability to grasp the bigger picture is measured.

What I am saying is that for a person who is wired (I'm taking a nature over nurture argument here) for systemic problem solving will do fine in analytical careers as long as s/he studies a discipline where analytical methods are taught. There are many of these. Engineering is only one.

If one cannot see how the various subjects required for a degree integrate into the overall discipline, I wll suggest that the person is in the wrong major or is of a mindset who works only in a very narrow field of study. There is a place for savant-like narrow skill-set in any organization, but trying to force feed breadth of thinking here is wasting everyone's time.

Getting off my narrow-minded soap box...:wink:
 
I understand that a person can have a wide variety of careers with an engineering degree, but I will disagree with the statement that the engineering degree will necessarily get a person that job. Like I said before it looks good on the resume (gets you to the hiring interview), but if you don't have the mindset to do the problem solving required as any of the above mentioned professions (which BTW all could and are done by people with Business degrees as well) you either won't get the job or won't do well with it. The bookwork of an engineer does not prepare one to problem solve better than any other analytical degree.
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As patentesq will no doubt point out, to sit for the Registration Exam before the USPTO (something you need to do to be a patent attorney), you need to have an undergrad tech degree or a bunch of hours in science/tech in addition to legal training.

A business degree won't help you become a patent attorney.
 
As patentesq will no doubt point out, to sit for the Registration Exam before the USPTO (something you need to do to be a patent attorney), you need to have an undergrad tech degree or a bunch of hours in science/tech in addition to legal training.

A business degree won't help you become a patent attorney.

Yes, both the engineer and business undergrad will probably need a law degree (or at least pass the bar exam, which technically does not require a JD) to become a patent lawyer.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe there is a specific major requirement to sit for the Registration Exam. I'm sure Patentesq will chime in soon enough to clarify.
 
Yes, both the engineer and business undergrad will probably need a law degree (or at least pass the bar exam, which technically does not require a JD) to become a patent lawyer.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe there is a specific major requirement to sit for the Registration Exam. I'm sure Patentesq will chime in soon enough to clarify.

USPTO requires that you have an undergraduate degree in a scientific/technical field or have a certain amount of credit hours in the sciences to sit for the registration examination.

http://www.uspto.gov/ip/boards/oed/grb.pdf

If you want to be any kind of lawyer in the US, you have to pass a Bar exam (except Wisconsin, which grants a "diploma privilege" to JD holders from the in-state schools of University of Wisconsin and Marquette University). The VAST MAJORITY of the time, to sit for the exam, it means you first have to have a JD from an ABA school. Some states do not technically require one, as you note, but I bet you can count on one hand the amount of successful applicants who don't have law degrees. I think, in those jurisdictions, non-JD folks have to do some kind of apprenticeship or something similar, but I've never met an attorney who went that route.

Patent attorneys take the registration exam with USPTO in addition to passing the Bar exam. Hence, they need to have undergrad tech backgrounds. Business majors, unless they have the requisite science coursework, cannot be patent attorneys.

I'm an attorney, but my undergrad degree is in international studies. Even if I was the reincarnation of Clarence Darrow with regard to my legal skills, with my arts UG background, I couldn't be a patent attorney.

Edit: upon some Google research, I found out that participants in a certain program at the UNH law school (the former Franklin Pierce Law Center) also qualify for diploma privilege in New Hampshire.
 
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USPTO requires that you have an undergraduate degree in a scientific/technical field or have a certain amount of credit hours in the sciences to sit for the registration examination.

http://www.uspto.gov/ip/boards/oed/grb.pdf

If you want to be any kind of lawyer in the US, you have to pass a Bar exam (except Wisconsin, which grants a "diploma privilege" to JD holders from the in-state schools of University of Wisconsin and Marquette University). The VAST MAJORITY of the time, to sit for the exam, it means you first have to have a JD from an ABA school. Some states do not technically require one, as you note, but I bet you can count on one hand the amount of successful applicants who don't have law degrees.

Patent attorneys take the registration exam with USPTO in addition to passing the bar exam. Hence, they need to have undergrad tech backgrounds. Business majors, unless they have the requisite science coursework, cannot be patent attorneys.

I'm an attorney, but my undergrad degree is in international studies. Even if i was the reincarnation of Clarence Darrow with regard to my legal skills, with my arts background, I couldn't be a patent attorney.

Point taken with regards to the technical requirements to sit for the exam. Most Business degreed individuals do not take the requisite sciences to sit for the exam. I did not.

I didn't make that post to argue the merits of a specific degree over another, but that the critical element for advancement in any analytical field is the mindset to integrate different disciplines to a systemic solution, the training for which can come from any number of disciplines.

My argument was that the student who couldn't see the value of a core discipline to his/her major probably is not cut out for that major and perhaps should try a different major with a different set of disciplines that align more with his/her mindset. If they stuggle integrating a core discipline into their thinking for any degree, they will struggle where that discipline separates the better candidates for promotion.

Example: If a person is great at math, but cannot see the integration into physics, but can identify how markets reacts to trends, perhaps the person should be in business school or economics.

I'm sure that patent attorneys will be a vital part of making sure intellectual property is properly protected - a key ingredient to allowing investors in intellectual capital to reap rewards commensurate to their contribution to the greater knowledge of mankind. Of course, this works well within a unified legal structure (like the US), works to some degree where relationships between parallel legal structures have adequate political support to make necessary adjustments, and works in a very limited manner where the parallel legal structures are out to dominate each other (hello China). For these cases, I don't care how many engineers with JDs you have, a leader with a keen sense of how to settle international trade issues regardless of pedigree is priceless.
 
sprog is correct. To be a patent lawyer (i.e., to take the registration examination), you must have an undergraduate degree in either a science (e.g., biology, physics, or chemistry) or engineering. There is a provision to allow you to petition the patent office to take the patent bar exam because you have obtained an equivalent number of credits that is essentially the same as having the "science/engineering" degree. For that reason, many lawyers go back to college to take extra undergrad courses in science or engineering to enable them to sit for the patent bar examination. That said, you can do patent litigation in federal court without being registered to practice before the US Patent Office. For patent litigators, having the extra credential of "Patent Attorney" is more of a marketing thing, because you can learn the substantive law of patents without being a practicing patent attorney. But even as a patent litigator, you have to have at least SOME skill and desire to learn how things work (having the inventor teach you how a semiconductor chip works down to the most excruciating detail can be a very painful process if you don't possess either the capacity or the interest to learn it). It is also tougher to make a name for yourself as a patent litigator if you don't have the patent attorney credential, not to say it can't be done. My former boss was a former Navy SEAL, NROTC grad, but an English major -- he led the largest patent department in the world at the time representing many of the largest companies such as IBM, Apple, Motorola, TI, General Electric, etc. He knew more about semiconductors and about how cell phones work than anyone I've ever met.

Every year, unfortunately, many colleges advise their students to enroll in a "pre-law" program if they want to become a lawyer. But it is not until those students are enrolled in law school that they find out that they're WAY behind the power curve, if they want to become an IP lawyer. The fact is that one of the best undergrad majors to have for applying to law school right now is science and engineering. This is because that is where the hottest jobs are right now in the legal marketplace (for statistical purposes, law schools want to admit students who find jobs quickly, and IP lawyers have in recent years found jobs the quickest).

In short, to become a patent attorney, you must (a) pass the state bar exam in your state, and (b) pass the patent bar exam with the USPTO (incidently, patent law is the only specialty in the law requiring two bar exams).

goaliedad is correct, too. His point is that you have to enjoy your work. If you have a passion for it, chances are more likely than not that you will read up on the latest developments in your area and maintain a high level of skill. This knowledge, in turn, will translate to being better at what you do. If Claude Monet had been an engineer, he likely would not have excelled the same way he did with painting.

Back to the point about Chinese law, bruno and aghalad and others have very good points about it being an augmentation skill. I think if the real interest is international relations, then the student should focus on that and augment that study with language skills. But then again, patent law is now an international practice. In one of my cases, for example, we had 5 disputes going on simultaineously in Europe, 2 in Asia, and 8 in the US -- it is very common nowadays to have world-domination patent fights like this one: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/12/20/apple-now-suing-samsung-over-tablet-and-phone-case-designs/ Guess who steers the ship in these kinds of worldwide global disputes -- US patent lawyers (although local counsel from the various countries is inevitably involved), almost none of whom speak the local language (that's what Chinese lawyers are for).

P.S. International trade disputes are almost always handled by lawyers, many of whom are patent lawyers. I spent almost half of my career arguing before the International Trade Commission.
 
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All in all a great discussion. Hopefully, we haven't completely lost the OP who seems to be open to reading the great diversity of views presented.
 
All in all a great discussion. Hopefully, we haven't completely lost the OP who seems to be open to reading the great diversity of views presented.

Agreed! Back to the OP, I just don't see majoring in Chinese language gets you anything that a native speaker doesn't already have. Why compete with native speakers in an area that would take you at least a decade to get where the native speaker started?
 
My argument was that the student who couldn't see the value of a core discipline to his/her major probably is not cut out for that major and perhaps should try a different major with a different set of disciplines that align more with his/her mindset. If they stuggle integrating a core discipline into their thinking for any degree, they will struggle where that discipline separates the better candidates for promotion.

Example: If a person is great at math, but cannot see the integration into physics, but can identify how markets reacts to trends, perhaps the person should be in business school or economics.
They have to want to do it and believe it is worthwhile. However, struggling with the major as a freshman is not unusual nor does it mean one is not cut out to be an engineer. I know more that struggled than did not. Myself, I struggled greatly. I had around a 2.2 at the end of my first year ( a 1.9 my second semester), had dropped calculus the first semester before taking it and working hard to get a C the second semester. I questioned whether I could do it and if it was worth it. I graduated with a 3.4 and have developed a career that is definitely worth it.
You have to want to do it but don't quit just because you are struggling. If you just don't like it, do something else. I have a friend that was a EE major, after 3 semseters had a 4.0 and decided she did not want to be an engineer and switched her major and became an actuary and did well. You don't have to be an engineer to do well and get a good job but it can open doors.

I deal with a lot of vendor sales reps that have an engineering degree and they sure don't do engineering work but they have enough of a technical background to talk intelligently about their company's products. Some of these companies only hire engineers for these sales positions.

To the OP good luck. You don't have to love it but you sure better not hate it.
 
Packer,

The one problem for this student is if they want to be in AFROTC, and commission, he doesn't have semesters/yrs to pull up the gpa if he sticks with it. He has 3 semesters, and a gpa of a 2.2, in your example, will mean he is not competitive for SFT.

That means he will not be commissioned and go straight into the engineering world as a civilian. He obviously is not scholarship so tuition is not an issue compared to the scholarship candidate. Honestly, this conversation wouldn't be occurring if he was a scholarship recipient because he would have to get permission from AFROTC HQ to transfer from tech to non-tech major.

The other issue he should investigate if he stays with engineering, is the length of the program. Typically they will allow them to do a 5 yr plan, if that is how the college program works, but he will still need approval to extend to 5 yrs. and nobody on this board can say without a doubt that AFROTC will grant it. This is something he should investigate.

The second reason to investigate this is because if he does convert over from engineering to Chinese, he may not be able to graduate on time due to new req. courses for that major. Our DD changed majors within the LAC world, but still had to go back and take some new classes that were required for her new major. The further along you wait to change majors the higher the likelihood you will be delaying graduation.

EX; At some schools they work it so certain classes are only offered 1x a yr, and have pre-reqs. If you change in the semester that 1X a yr class is offered, you now have to wait until next yr to catch up, not next semester.

Engineering majors at colleges are going to be math/science oriented, and I would assume many of those classes are not required for Chinese, so you would have to try to slide them in as your minor or your electives.

The OP obviously has just completed fall freshman semester since he states he is in college, and has yet to join any ROTC program. His post says he deciding between AFROTC and AROTC.

He may decide in the end of the day not to go ROTC at all, and if that is the case, the question really does come down to how badly does he want to be an engineer. I agree many kids will change their minds during college regarding their majors, and some due it for the wrong reasons.

One of our DD's closest friend at VT is an engineering major. They were told flat out like many have stated, freshman yr is the absolute worst, it is where they weed out many students, but if you can stick it out, with each semester it does get better. Some will stick it out and some won't. At her school they are told it is about a 2 in 3 chance on their 1st day...that old adage look to your right, look to your left, 1 of you will not receive a degree in engineering.

I think we all come here with different perspectives and view the situation through our own personal beliefs, as an adult in the corporate world, a college grad, a parent, or even ROTC cadets. It is now up to the OP to take everything and listen to his own thoughts about what he wants or needs for his personal life because let's face it, we aren't him and we aren't his family. We will not be there on the other end of the phone when he is stressed over his gpa or a class he may be failing. We will not be there in 10 yrs when he says I should have majored in Engineering because he now hates working as an interpreter for a silicon valley company instead of being an engineer at that same company.

Happy New Year to all, may 2012 bring you every joy you have ever wanted!

PS. Patentesq, you forgot one reason why for Chinese, he has an asset that native speakers will not have when he enters the corporate world...a TS clearance. I know, I know, not everyone wants to work in the contracting or govt world, but if we are honest, a job is a job, and that clearance gives him an edge TS clearances are not cheap, nor can they be done in a matter of days, it takes months. If the UN or State Dept needs an interpreter and has to choose between the native speaker with no TS or the TS with a degree in Chinese, they will probably take the TS candidate.
 
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Packer,

The one problem for this student is if they want to be in AFROTC, and commission, he doesn't have semesters/yrs to pull up the gpa if he sticks with it. He has 3 semesters, and a gpa of a 2.2, in your example, will mean he is not competitive for SFT.

That means he will not be commissioned and go straight into the engineering world as a civilian. He obviously is not scholarship so tuition is not an issue compared to the scholarship candidate. Honestly, this conversation wouldn't be occurring if he was a scholarship recipient because he would have to get permission from AFROTC HQ to transfer from tech to non-tech major.

The other issue he should investigate if he stays with engineering, is the length of the program. Typically they will allow them to do a 5 yr plan, if that is how the college program works, but he will still need approval to extend to 5 yrs. and nobody on this board can say without a doubt that AFROTC will grant it. This is something he should investigate.

The second reason to investigate this is because if he does convert over from engineering to Chinese, he may not be able to graduate on time due to new req. courses for that major. Our DD changed majors within the LAC world, but still had to go back and take some new classes that were required for her new major. The further along you wait to change majors the higher the likelihood you will be delaying graduation.

EX; At some schools they work it so certain classes are only offered 1x a yr, and have pre-reqs. If you change in the semester that 1X a yr class is offered, you now have to wait until next yr to catch up, not next semester.

Engineering majors at colleges are going to be math/science oriented, and I would assume many of those classes are not required for Chinese, so you would have to try to slide them in as your minor or your electives.

The OP obviously has just completed fall freshman semester since he states he is in college, and has yet to join any ROTC program. His post says he deciding between AFROTC and AROTC.

He may decide in the end of the day not to go ROTC at all, and if that is the case, the question really does come down to how badly does he want to be an engineer. I agree many kids will change their minds during college regarding their majors, and some due it for the wrong reasons.

One of our DD's closest friend at VT is an engineering major. They were told flat out like many have stated, freshman yr is the absolute worst, it is where they weed out many students, but if you can stick it out, with each semester it does get better. Some will stick it out and some won't. At her school they are told it is about a 2 in 3 chance on their 1st day...that old adage look to your right, look to your left, 1 of you will not receive a degree in engineering.

I think we all come here with different perspectives and view the situation through our own personal beliefs, as an adult in the corporate world, a college grad, a parent, or even ROTC cadets. It is now up to the OP to take everything and listen to his own thoughts about what he wants or needs for his personal life because let's face it, we aren't him and we aren't his family. We will not be there on the other end of the phone when he is stressed over his gpa or a class he may be failing. We will not be there in 10 yrs when he says I should have majored in Engineering because he now hates working as an interpreter for a silicon valley company instead of being an engineer at that same company.

Happy New Year to all, may 2012 bring you every joy you have ever wanted!

PS. Patentesq, you forgot one reason why for Chinese, he has an asset that native speakers will not have when he enters the corporate world...a TS clearance. I know, I know, not everyone wants to work in the contracting or govt world, but if we are honest, a job is a job, and that clearance gives him an edge TS clearances are not cheap, nor can they be done in a matter of days, it takes months. If the UN or State Dept needs an interpreter and has to choose between the native speaker with no TS or the TS with a degree in Chinese, they will probably take the TS candidate.

Pima, I agree. I have no idea if he has a 2.2 or a 3.8. His desire to commission has to be a factor in his decision along with what he thinks he wants to do long term and short term.
It is his decision to make. He must filter through all of the information and advice available and decide which to take and which to discount. His last post made it sound as if he had made a decision and he may not even be paying attention to all of our noise.
 
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