Colleges with the Highest Paid Grads

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by nadofr8dog, Oct 4, 2012.

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  1. nadofr8dog

    nadofr8dog Member

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    I find it very hard to believe KP was not in the top 5! I wonder if KP was even considered?? The 2012 Officer Pay Chart I look up on line has an 0-1 with under two years of service earning just under $3000/mos. I'm not sure where they come up with $72,200. Benefits add some but I'm fairly confident it doesn't double one's salary!!! I don't think Officers make it to six digits in gross pay until senior LCDR or CDR rank.

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/...es/120930/colleges-the-highest-paid-graduates
     
  2. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    I don't know if you read the story or not other than the brief summary list, (and I don't know if KP was considered). But the full story explains some methodology: new graduates are 5 years out and then midcareer they calculate as 10 years or more in career (that midcareer obviously is a little variable .)
    And- Military compensation has a lot of benefits above and beyond the simple base pay. On average for an O1 - Base pay is only 67% of the average cash payment that young "2LT Doolittle" will be taking home, and that 33%(BAS &BAH) is not taxed unlike his Civilian counterparts. For example if you go to this DoD website http://militarypay.defense.gov/mpcalcs/Calculators/RMC.aspx it will give you the average "Regular Military Compensation" by rank and years of service. For example an average O1<2 years of service in Conus = $53.7 k which includes $49.7 k in direct pay & benefits and $4k because of the tax exemptions for your benefits. An O3 with 5 years service jumps to $87 k including $7k in tax advantages and $80 k in Base Pay, BAS and BAH. An O4 with 10 years service= $109 k.
    So I don't think the study's numbers are so far off with respect to salary. Compounded by that is that Acad grads have virtually 100% employment thru 5 years and most a great deal longer which certainly will boost the new grad averages a lot compared to their peers.
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Sure they could as a Navy grad assigned to somewhere like the Pentagon. The BAH alone is 26K a yr that is not taxable, adjust to the civilian world, it is about 32K. That is before BAS and COLA for them. I got them to the 72K without addressing the bennies of free healthcare for the AD member, commissary, low cost high amount life insurance.

    Bullet as an AF officer with 6 yrs in, 28 yrs old was making in the 6 figures. Here would be his current breakdown
    5271 Base Pay
    650 Flight Pay
    2385 Housing

    That would be 8300 a month, and 1/4 of it would not be taxable. Tax purposes he would be making under 70K, in reality he is bringing home 99,600. That does not include BAS. That 30K+ is not taxed, which is several grand.

    Push it back even more regarding age to when he is 32, 10 yrs in, there is for the AF a pilot bonus offered that the last time I checked, so won't swear by it is given at the 7 yr flying marker and it is 150K, 50% lump sum, 50% annual for 7 yrs. If it is still the same as I recall, it would mean that when they are @30, one yr their pay could be as much as 175K. Every yr after that it would be @115K, but now you need to add in that many are promoted to O4 at the 10 yr marker, 32 yrs old is making at that same base 8900 a month, not including flight pay or any other kind of bonus.

    Those numbers are for newly minted O4s not sr O4s up for O5.

    AK is not the highest BAH. NJ is higher. The same O4 in AK makes 6K a yr less than their counterpart in NJ. OBTW the same O5 in NJ makes 43K a yr in housing, on top of 7300 Base pay at age 36. @11K a month, no flight pay, no sea pay, just pure pay or 132K, and 43K is not taxable, thus more like 140K.

    xposted with Bruno.

    In the end, the paycheck deposited into your account might be less, but the paycheck you write on April 15th is also a lot less too. One other thing to place into the equation regarding taxes. Military members many times are exempt from paying state taxes too. For example the O1 at the Pentagon has an HOR of NJ, he lives in VA. NJ and VA will not deduct state taxes because of the way it works for AD military members. VA does not see him as a resident, and NJ sees him as a resident that does not earn their salary in NJ. That is also several thousand a yr they save come 4/15
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  4. Polaris

    Polaris Member

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    This whole post is a joke. Payscale.com's methodology has a bias in it. It is a self reporting website and is dependent upon graduates signing up and posting their salary on the site. If you look at the numbers,
    USMA 392 graduates, USAFA 291 graduates, USNA 321 graduates, USMMA 79 graduates. I would say this is not very scientific and with out an equal number of USMMA graduates posting their respective salary on payscale.com you are in the end comparing apples to oranges.
    However a USMMA grad right out of school can make $85,000 a year working six months a year sailing deep sea or $110,000 sailing one month on/one month off sailing in the offshore industry on drillships or rigs. However until a larger group of Kings Pointers post their earnings comparing their salary is meaningless because you can have a huge spectrum of salaries graduating from KP.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Statistically I would say it is scientific because they used a % of the graduate pool. I am guessing about 30%. USMMA's number of 79 maybe due to that fact alone. I don't know the amount they graduate, but the sister services commission closer to 1000 cadets per yr. If KP graduates 250-300 per yr., than the pool size used was comparing apples with apples. It only becomes apples with oranges when you say they graduate 400+ a yr., after removing those that go AD from the equation. If I am correct KP grads can go AD.

    It is not about the number in the pool, it is about the percentage they used.
     
  6. Polaris

    Polaris Member

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    Your post makes many assumptions. First the other service academy grads all have the basic same pay their first 5 years outside of graduation. USMMA grads have a huge spectrum of pay depending on what they do their first 5 years of graduation. USMMA graduates about 200 students a year, however 79 individuals posting is a very small sample especially with the variety of jobs that graduates can have, with that being said it also depends on who posts their respective salary within that spectrum. Just look at the key statistics that payscale reports for USMMA. Again, it's a self reporting site, you have no idea who posts and which grads post for payscale.com. It is not a very accurate site for obtaining a true measure of pay for grads. Career Services at Kings Point would be much more accurate.
     
  7. Polaris

    Polaris Member

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    If you check other websites you can a variety of answers, example

    http://www.venturescholar.org/portals/index.php?mid=385

    USMMA grads are guaranteed a job and starting salary of $55,000-90,000 working in the Maritime Industry.

    http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=U.S.+Military+Academy&l1=

    $55,000

    http://www.indeed.com/salary/U.S.-Merchant-Marine-Academy.html
    $62,000

    http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-us+military+academy
    $43,000

    USMMA - $53,000
    USNA - $44,000

    Again, these sites all have a bias and not very scientific.
     
  8. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

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    The footnote on the full report states that the data does not include any currently active service members. All the data for the service academies is based on people who have already separated from the service, so the comparison of active duty pay doesn't really apply.

    Stealth_81
     
  9. Polaris

    Polaris Member

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    You are missing the point! These reports are not scientific and as such should be taken with a grain of salt. With that being said, no one know on payscale.com who is posting and what they are posting especially with regards to Kings Point. You have 79 people that posted for USMMA, again, not like the other service academies where everyone goes on active duty.
    I don't know one third mate or third engineer that is making less than $ 85K a year sailing and if they are sailing in the offshore industry they are all making over $100k.
    However I know where this discussion is going. I will be berated with posts from everyone on here justifying payscale.com, trying to justify the scientific methods used by that webiste and justifying the pay of their active duty children.
     
  10. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    A guaranteed job?

    Who guarantees it? :confused:
     
  11. Polaris

    Polaris Member

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    100% job placement rate within 6 months of graduation, I would say that is a guaranteed job.
     
  12. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

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    No, actually you missed my point. I was pointing out to everyone who is calculating active duty pay in this thread that the data in the report does not include any active duty people. Simple as that.

    Stealth_81
     
  13. Polaris

    Polaris Member

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    NO you are missing the point, you can't compare apples to oranges and that is what everyone is doing here with regards to Kings Point and the other academies especially since payscale.com's methodology has come under fire.
    What needs to be done is then take just pay for sailing jobs from Kings Point and compare them to active duty pay. Then you can really compare apples to apples.
     
  14. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

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    I would like to know what point I am missing. I stated a fact regarding the report. I offered no opinion of the quality of the data, nor did I give any insight into my feelings on the whole article. Please explain to me what point I can be missing if I am not even commenting on the issue.

    Stealth_81
     
  15. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    100%? Every single person who graduated from KP has a maritime job making between 55k-90k per year within 6 months - every single one of them?

    Can you post a link to back that up?

    Oh, and this:

    As they say on the brokerage house commercials - "Past performance not indicative of future results or a guarantee of returns."

    Not in writing, not a guarantee.
     
  16. Polaris

    Polaris Member

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    http://www.usmma.edu/admissions/lifeafterkp.shtml

    By the way, I already posted a link to back it up.
     
  17. Polaris

    Polaris Member

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    By the virtue of you continuing to post on the issue you are commenting on it and taking a stance, but again you miss the point. We are comparing apples to oranges here.
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Polaris,

    Let's go with the USNA 43K and USMMA 55K.

    The fact still stands an O1 with less than 2 yrs will make about 33K, the other 10K is considered ALLOWANCE, thus not taxable...i.e. BAH and BAS. Now that changes their 4/15 IRS amount.

    Additionally, they have sea pay, jump pay, flight pay, etc.

    Plus as I illustrated if that USMMA grad making 55K is in NJ, going out of Bayonne, remember the Navy grad stationed in NJ is making 30K not taxable in Housing, beating them out by 20K. Additionally, if the USNA grads are a MD resident on AD, NJ will not tax their base pay of 33K, even if they bought a home in NJ, they pay RE taxes for the home like the USMMA grad, but their paycheck won't have NJ taxes deducted. MD won't tax them state either. However, NJ will tax the USMMA grad that resides in NJ, because according to them he is a NJ resident and working in NJ.

    Like I said they may get paid less, but they keep more money in their pocket come April. Thousands more.

    Next,
    Wrong! It is the same sample size as any SA, That is how stats work. They took a pool of 25-30% of every grad. I understand that IYO every SA grad gets the same pay, but that is not how stats work. It is not the number amount when it comes to pool size, it is the percentage of the pool. In this case, it is the correct sample for the study. They took 25-30% of every SA. USMMA is an SA. They didn't take 500 USMA grads, they took 25-30%.


    Military members pay varies, all over the place. Assigned to Pensacola your BAH as an O1 is @1K a month, or about 50% compared to your peer at the Pentagon.

    Jump out of perfectly good planes your pay varies. Go out to sea, it varies. Live on base/post it varies. Have a spouse it varies.

    Now can you say the same thing if they are hired by a civilian company? Do they get a tax break by the Fed and the State? Do they get free medical care? How much would it cost for 400K life insurance every month.

    Finally, I do read links, and I think you shouldn't have posted this one:
    http://www.indeed.com/salary/U.S.-Merchant-Marine-Academy.html
    You just hurt your argument.

    Same site.
    Apples with Apples using your links. If I do the math, a USMMA according their site would have a 15% differential.

    I am not trying to attack the USMMA, I think it is a great asset. I am trying to illustrate that if you are going to defend and slam a sister SA regarding pay after graduation, as you said I made many assumptions, so did you.

    We are here to help and inform. Many people, including you missed that 11% comment, they saw the amount they are paid, nothing more. They did not place everything into the equation. IMPO it is not the amount you are paid, it is the amount you get to keep in your pocket. I think for you, you belong to the it is the amount you are paid, and not the amount you get to keep in your pocket. JMPO.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012
  19. Packer

    Packer Member

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    This discussion is nuts. If the data excludes active duty service members, no data exists for USMA, USNA until 5 years after graduation.
     
  20. Polaris

    Polaris Member

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