Color Vision Waiver - Marine ground Question?

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crudi

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Our candidate was given a USNA appt. and granted a color vision waiver for 2024’s freshman class. His appointment is contingent on signing and submitting the following statement:

“I certify that I fully understand that my opportunity for commissioning in the Unrestricted Line communities in the Navy or Marine Corps may be limited to Marine Ground due to color vision deficiency. I assert I will accept a commission ni the U.S. Marine Corps, if offered. (Please hand sign and email this form to admissionsmedical@usna.edu)”

The information we’ve gathered is that his current and only option for service selection is “USMC ground”. Restricted line Navy careers can be applied for but not guaranteed.

Is there any data for what color vision deficient midshipmen in the next graduating are getting for their actual service selection? Are they all being force to marine ground?
 
crudi said:
Our candidate was given a USNA appt. and granted a color vision waiver for 2024’s freshman class. His appointment is contingent on signing and submitting the following statement:

“I certify that I fully understand that my opportunity for commissioning in the Unrestricted Line communities in the Navy or Marine Corps may be limited to Marine Ground due to color vision deficiency. I assert I will accept a commission ni the U.S. Marine Corps, if offered. (Please hand sign and email this form to admissionsmedical@usna.edu)”

The information we’ve gathered is that his current and only option for service selection is “USMC ground”. Restricted line Navy careers can be applied for but not guaranteed.

Is there any data for what color vision deficient midshipmen in the next graduating are getting for their actual service selection? Are they all being force to marine ground?
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I assume you mean the incoming class of plebes for USNA 2028 - congratulations to your son.

I hope @A1Janitor stops by, as he has a USNA grad son who went through this.

USNA admits a handful of color deficient midshipmen into each class. They are not able to enter the main warfare communities, such as Navy or Marine air, surface warfare (ships), submarines, EOD, etc. The Navy calls the main warfare communities “unrestricted line officer.” I not going to give you the details on that now, just sketch the basics. They are allowed to go into what are called “restricted line” communities or Staff Corps. And Marine ground.

There is no way to know what those Navy communities will have available in terms of manpower room until they are seniors, or firsties. They will be told their options. Could be a Navy Intel, Cyber, Meteorology, Engineering Duty Officer, and some others in the RL. In Staff Corps (that’s doctors, nurses, medical service, lawyers, PAO, JAG, Chaplains, etc.), I usually see Civil Engineering Corps (CEC) and Supply Corps offered as a Staff Corps option.

Usually, every year, there are a couple of choices for those mids. But - it is quite possible that the Navy might have no room in other communities (military officer endstrength is mandated by law), and the ONLY option offered is Marine ground. This letter tells the mid upfront this is a possibility, and he or she cannot say “But I don’t want to be a Marine.”

Marne ground officers do not know what their officer specialty will be until they attend The Basic School (TBS) at Quantico after graduation from USNA.

And, search for color blind/color vision threads here on SAF in the Navy forum. There are many.

And, google “USNA service assignment class of 2026” and previous years. You will see the breakdown of where all the firsties are going. You’ll see the handful going to restricted line and Staff Corps, many of whom will have the color vision issue.

It’s a calculated risk.

Your son’s primary source is Admissions. He should ask them every detailed question he wants. This is a big decision.

Hope this helps.
 
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My son graduated in 2023 … he signed the document to accept marine ground like your candidate.

Not once did he ever feel like he was going to be forced to go marines … and he would have been ok if they did. He got into top shape throughout his four years just in case.

He was looking at CEC, Supply, and AMDO, and ultimately went CEC.

He is currently training to go into dive school.

I sent him a text to let me know the graduates of 2023 that went marines.
 
Thanks guys. We were simply trying to make an informed decision. DS will be moving forward with very realistic expectations...
 
Old Navy BGO said:
I thought I responded to this inquiry a couple days ago ? Was my response deleted ?
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They started two separate threads.

USNA Color Vision Waiver Agreement- Marine Ground?

We received a color vision waiver to USNA. Very grateful. I know how hard these are to come by. That said, the following conditional agreement letter was sent for us to sign from the Admissions board "I certify that I fully understand that my opportunity for commissioning in the...
www.serviceacademyforums.com
 
My DS also received a colorblind waiver and an Appointment for the class of 2028. He signed the paperwork Admissions sent him on his options after commissioning. This will be our 3rd Mid (our other two went Navy Aviation) and we know several of our other Mid's friends who are colorblind and have/are about to Commission. Everyone so far has gone Marine Corps. One landed an Intel spot after TBS. All those restricted line selections (disregarding Marine Corps) are incredible and tough to get. I know for Seabees they only hand out a couple a year so your class rank needs to be pretty high. We thought my DS's buddy was a shoe in for it and he didn't get it. He got Marine Corps. So you just never know. One cool thing is these restricted line Mids can get some neat summer trainings that otherwise they may not get. Someone mentioned to me all the colorblind kids will eventually know each other. A little colorblind club...HA HA HA! Also, there will be a few or maybe even several more colorblind Mids for 2028 that fail the eye test on I-Day (no pun intended) or fail it for their Commissioning physical. We know Mids who failed at both of those stages of their Academy life. The Commissioning physical fail was a huge shock. That Mid passed the eye test on I-Day but couldn't for Commissioning physical. He was planning on going aviation so that was a huge turn of events for him. He went Marine Corps. We basically had a long discussion with our DS that he needs to want to be a Marine if he chooses to go to the Academy. That way if he gets one of the other spots it'll be icing on the cake. But he needs to want to be a Marine. Best of luck making a decision and CONGRATS to your DS! Getting an Appointment is incredible. Getting an Appointment as a colorblind kid is even more incredible! The Academy wants you! Beat Army!
 
A1Janitor said:
My son graduated in 2023 … he signed the document to accept marine ground like your candidate.

Not once did he ever feel like he was going to be forced to go marines … and he would have been ok if they did. He got into top shape throughout his four years just in case.

He was looking at CEC, Supply, and AMDO, and ultimately went CEC.

He is currently training to go into dive school.

I sent him a text to let me know the graduates of 2023 that went marines.
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Did he ever respond with those numbers?
SweetCaroline said:
My DS also received a colorblind waiver and an Appointment for the class of 2028. He signed the paperwork Admissions sent him on his options after commissioning. This will be our 3rd Mid (our other two went Navy Aviation) and we know several of our other Mid's friends who are colorblind and have/are about to Commission. Everyone so far has gone Marine Corps. One landed an Intel spot after TBS. All those restricted line selections (disregarding Marine Corps) are incredible and tough to get. I know for Seabees they only hand out a couple a year so your class rank needs to be pretty high. We thought my DS's buddy was a shoe in for it and he didn't get it. He got Marine Corps. So you just never know. One cool thing is these restricted line Mids can get some neat summer trainings that otherwise they may not get. Someone mentioned to me all the colorblind kids will eventually know each other. A little colorblind club...HA HA HA! Also, there will be a few or maybe even several more colorblind Mids for 2028 that fail the eye test on I-Day (no pun intended) or fail it for their Commissioning physical. We know Mids who failed at both of those stages of their Academy life. The Commissioning physical fail was a huge shock. That Mid passed the eye test on I-Day but couldn't for Commissioning physical. He was planning on going aviation so that was a huge turn of events for him. He went Marine Corps. We basically had a long discussion with our DS that he needs to want to be a Marine if he chooses to go to the Academy. That way if he gets one of the other spots it'll be icing on the cake. But he needs to want to be a Marine. Best of luck making a decision and CONGRATS to your DS! Getting an Appointment is incredible. Getting an Appointment as a colorblind kid is even more incredible! The Academy wants you! Beat Army!
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Did they do further testing on I-day/commissioning? The FALANT or it’s updated version.. Or was the ISHIHARA the only result considered…

Please, only the facts or data…
 
He didn’t know.

He was friends with a small group that were engineer majors. None of his friends went marines. He didn’t know about most of them.
 
crudi said:
Did he ever respond with those numbers?

Did they do further testing on I-day/commissioning? The FALANT or it’s updated version.. Or was the ISHIHARA the only result considered…

Please, only the facts or data…
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I-Day: Yes, vision is one of those critical accession standards. That and a few other critical things are looked at. Every year some incoming appointees are turned away - unreported surgeries clearly not healed up yet, other conditions and injuries, etc.

Pre-comm physical: Done during 2/C year (junior), and this comes along some months after they sign their obligated service contracts at start of academic year. Confirms and updates medical history. Various tests repeated or administered. Eligibility for various warfare specialties confirmed or denied. We had a sponsor family mid who was an aero major, had a PPL, wanted Navy pilot>jets>test pilot>astronaut, was diagnosed with a new condition that required daily medication DQing him from Navy air, but he could and did go subs. I believe the USNA pre-comm physical is rigorous enough for Navy and Marine air, that the once-dreaded “NAMI-whammy” physical at flight school is more of a formality now.


Color vision test: I believe Ishihara is the standard, and Falant was phased out around 2017. I couldn’t find the exact reference on the fly this AM, but this reference in aeromedical reference mentions the shift.
 
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Color “Blind” is not a correct label.

Yes … I have difficulty with the Red/Green dot test … but I can tell you exactly what the colors are when there is separation between the dots.

Color Deficiency or Color Anomaly are better labels.

I personally like Color Anomaly.
.
 
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Great advice above, so will just reiterate here that he should truly want to be a Marine, not just "settle" for it because he wants to attend USNA. USMC is a very certain archetype, even more so than the other branches. The mid has to really want the Marines, and the Marines have to really the mid. Specific MOS is secondary to being a Marine.
 
Capt MJ said:
I-Day: Yes, vision is one of those critical accession standards. That and a few other critical things are looked at. Every year some incoming appointees are turned away - unreported surgeries clearly not healed up yet, other conditions and injuries, etc.

Pre-comm physical: Done during 2/C year (junior), and this comes along some months after they sign their obligated service contracts at start of academic year. Confirms and updates medical history. Various tests repeated or administered. Eligibility for various warfare specialties confirmed or denied. We had a sponsor family mid who was an aero major, had a PPL, wanted Navy pilot>jets>test pilot>astronaut, was diagnosed with a new condition that required daily medication DQing him from Navy air, but he could and did go subs. I believe the USNA pre-comm physical is rigorous enough for Navy and Marine air, that the once-dreaded “NAMI-whammy” physical at flight school is more of a formality now.


Color vision test: I believe Ishihara is the standard, and Falant was phased out around 2017. I couldn’t find the exact reference on the fly this AM, but this reference in aeromedical reference mentions the shift.
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Thank you for posting the actual Instruction as of Jul 2018, Capt MJ. Very refreshing to just get the facts from you. Always grateful ….

Having navigated the military waiver process for other reasons than Color Vision in my military career, I know tracking down answers can be tricky. The following is key wrinkle:

“3. Computerized Color Vision Tests (CCVT) may be either used as a primary test of color vision, or may be used as a backup test for PIP or FALANT failures.
Computerized Tests (validated and approved):
a. Waggoner CCVT: A score of “normal” or “mild” color vision deficiency in red,
green or blue is acceptable”

I assume this is the most up-to-date instruction, Right?

I knew FALANT was phased out/in the process of phasing out, but just didn’t know exactly when….

Sounds like I-Day and/or Pre-Com will include more thorough evaluation than DODMERB contractor’s initial for application. I am familiar with other methods mentioned and the Waggoner’s degree of CVD determination.

Thanks again.
 
crudi said:
Thank you for posting the actual Instruction as of Jul 2018, Capt MJ. Very refreshing to just get the facts from you. Always grateful ….

Having navigated the military waiver process for other reasons than Color Vision in my military career, I know tracking down answers can be tricky. The following is key wrinkle:

“3. Computerized Color Vision Tests (CCVT) may be either used as a primary test of color vision, or may be used as a backup test for PIP or FALANT failures.
Computerized Tests (validated and approved):
a. Waggoner CCVT: A score of “normal” or “mild” color vision deficiency in red,
green or blue is acceptable”

I assume this is the most up-to-date instruction, Right?

I knew FALANT was phased out/in the process of phasing out, but just didn’t know exactly when….

Sounds like I-Day and/or Pre-Com will include more thorough evaluation than DODMERB contractor’s initial for application. I am familiar with other methods mentioned and the Waggoner’s degree of CVD determination.

Thanks again.
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There is a difference between accession standards prior to entering military service and the standards for retention, once serving, as you probably know.. The accession bar is almost always higher and more restricted. The aeromedical reference refers to managing that serving population - I grabbed it because it dated the shift from Falant.

DoDMERB would know what is the accession standard used.

And, somewhere n recent posts, someone put the general email address for USNA medical admissions.
 
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