Conditional Events AFROTC

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by bb2405, Jun 8, 2015.

  1. bb2405

    bb2405 Member

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    I have heard a lot of different information regarding this topic.

    (I am non-contract)
    My questions are:
    1) Do your conditional events reset once you contract as a POC?

    2) How many conditional events can you have as a GMC?
     
  2. AlphaYoung

    AlphaYoung New Member

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    Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure you can have 5 conditionals within an 18 month period. I'd call your det and ask.
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    This is from AFROTC

    A conditional event, put in simplest terms is a 3 strike rule. If you get 3 conditional events, you will be put up for disenrollment from the program. You can receive conditional events only when contracted and for a variety of reasons such as Academic Standards, Military Standards, PFA Failure, Honor Code Violation, etc.

    As I read it, since you are not contracted, and will not be until you graduate from SFT and arrive back at your school in the fall, the 3 strike rule has no impact on you currently as a GMC. If you were scholarship as a GMC, than you would already be contracted and the 3 strike rule would be in effect currently.
    ~ IE a Type 1,2 or 7 as an AS100 would have that rule for their entire ROTC career. A type 2 3 year, would live by the rule starting their AS200 year.

    I am not someone that would say contact the unit, because if the unit is good, than either the CoC or someone on staff would have said to you already that you are walking a fine line, and one more slip up will cause them to start disenrollment paperwork. I would think on the 1st slip up, at the end of term review they would have discussed this with any cadet.
    ~ It makes me question why you are asking? Did your unit not warn you, or are you afraid that you might get nailed in the future? The latter is something to think about if your intention is to be an AF officer. You never want to walk close to the line, even if you want to only do 4 and the door.

    OBTW, I know of cadets on this site alone disenrolled with less than 3 conditional events. The reasons varied from being 6 lbs overweight, to fessing up as an AS300 that they lied on their DoDMERB intake for marijuana use (originally stated 1x, fessed up to 3)
    ~ It all depends on how badly they want/need you impo.

    Also maybe it is just me, but I can't see how any cadet with even 1 strike ranks up in the top 50% for the CoC, which is a big portion for AFSC
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2015
  4. WannaBeOfficer

    WannaBeOfficer Member

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    Is it for a GPA related matter? If so, non-contract cadets can't get conditionals for those, as long as your GPA is still above the 2.0/2.5 range if you are a 200. Just know, if your gpa drops, and it's below a 2.5, you won't be able to go up for FT. Once you are contracted, failing classes causes conditionals. If it's not a GPA matter, I'd need to know what it is to give you better info.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I have a feeling that it is the cgpa since the OP has 2.67. To me, being that close to 2.5 would insinuate they had semesters under 2.5, or maybe at least one semester where they were given fair warning.

    I hope that the OP understands 2.5 is not the cgpa, but every semester gpa. 2.492 by most colleges will be a 2.49, not a 2.50.
     
  6. Raptor47

    Raptor47 New Member

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    This is not true. I know 2 former cadets that had conditionals to their name. Both of them were given slots at ENJJPT. A conditional event can be given for any number of reasons. Be it as a freshman for having your hair out of regs for a day, or having a really tough semester of classes where you earn a 2.4 GPA.

    Both of these cadets were #1 in their graduating class.
     
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  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Not disagreeing with you at all. Just saying there are units that a conditional will drop your rank.

    Think about it from an ADAF perspective regarding promotions. Do you believe your chances of getting a DP decreases if you have an "event"? If so, than we are on the same page.

    As far as ENJPPT goes, that is unique because as a 300 when you are offered a pilot slot, it is just that, a pilot slot. 400s than submit for ENJJPT selection. Not everyone applies. My DS had 13 cadets get pilot, only 1 applied for ENJJPT. He was the CWC. Even if he wasn't the CWC or had an event, he would have received support as number 1 because he was the only one.
    ~ Pool size matters. Would you not agree?

    I maybe incorrect with this, but from what I understand, for ENJJPT selection, PCSM is a biggie, along with cgpa. On another forum, I believe they said the avg PCSM for ENJJPT is in the 90s. On this site, I believe it was Stealth that said it, for USAFA cadets they need to be top 10% of the class for ENJJPT.

    Finally, if you get a conditional because of your hair being out of regs, do you not agree with me, that your hair would not ever be out of regs again?
    ~ Strike 1...agree?
    Knowing that they take this so seriously would you risk a strike 2?
    ~ Bad semester...do you risk it with being out of regs for your hair or PFA?

    3 strikes in ROTC is a gift, because in the ADAF world, you basically sealed your fate after the 1st. No Commander or DO will place/tie their career to you...their 1st priority will always be their career and promotion. You didn't step up to the plate, than you are on your own.

    Posters forget, ROTC exists to create officers, but at the same time that PMS Major XYZ will eventually meet an O5 board. The success of that unit will make or break them. Their stats will be Bullet points on the OPR/PRF. The higher retention rate, selection rate for SFT/rated, all come back on their OPR.
    ~ Best small, medium, large unit in the nation will be in their records.

    Your success or failure as a cadet indirectly impacts them too. The difference is for them, this is their career, their financial future.
     
  8. Raptor47

    Raptor47 New Member

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    I wasn't under the impression this is how it works. To my knowledge, they still took your class ranking, not a new revised ranking of only the applicants that submitted for ENJJPT, though I may be wrong.

    After reading your reply, and agreeing with most, I think it all comes down to this... who the commander is, and how they justify conditional events into their ranking.

    Maybe quoting ENJJPT as a plus for still receiving a conditional was not the best way to put it. Here is the quick breakdown of the 2 cadets I know that were given conditionals, but still graduated 1st in their class. Not were just voted #1 for ENJJPT, but were 1st overall in their class.

    Cadet #1: conditional event for military appearance freshman year. Came back as a DG from FT. Went down as a CTA the next summer. Finished with a degree in physics, was offered a slot at ENJJPT, and also qualified to have the AF pay for medical school if he wished to. He opted to fly jets.

    Cadet #2: conditional event for cgpa falling below a 2.5 the semester before FT. He then had to wait another year to head down to Maxwell. Same deal as the first guy, DG down at FT and then came back and crushed it at the det, and later becoming the Wing Commander. Offered a slot at ENJJPT as well and took it.

    What both of these cadets did, and which I have seen in the past, is used these conditional events as motivation to be a better cadet.

    You do make a good point about the cadre, and how it can directly relate to themselves -- something I think cadets commonly find themselves forgetting of.
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Notice a key aspect.

    DG at SFT. SFT ranking is part of the equation too.
    ~ How can a CoC not rank them at the top when the cadet becomes a 300 if HQ AFROTC said nationally they are the top?

    Now back to the OPs question and your response.

    ~ Haircut as a freshmen? That is just impo being a hard arse, and should not be held in the same light as a 2.4, failing the PFA 2x or drinking underage.

    They did it to say step up! In the AF it would be considered desk drawer. Paperwork was done, but not filed. Keep your nose clean and when you PCS that would be filed in the circular cabinet (trash can). Screw up again and you will have 2 strikes.

    I guess what bothers me the most is the poster asking how many and if they reset as a POC. I feel/believe that if you are asking how many, well....you have not been adhering to the advice your CoC has been giving at the end of semester review.
    ~Old adage....spit on me once, shame on you. Spit on me twice, shame on me.

    You are all the future of the AF, how many freebies will you accept as a leader?

    FYI, here's a reality check for those that want to go rated. Bust a flight, you will get an 88 (redo). Bust that you get an 89 ride. Bust that and you meet the Flight Evaluation Board.
    ~ 3 tries/strikes.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I forgot to reply to this yesterday. Yes, you maybe correct, BUT think of it in a different aspect.
    1. The CoC can move that rank to a limited degree.
    ~ They have guidance on how to rank them, but they also know OPR/PRFs as a career officer.
    2. The last time I saw the stats (baseops.net) regarding ENJJPT, one thing they all had in common was above a 93 PCSM.
    ~ They probably want that high of a PCSM for chance of success/wing rate.
    ~ I do not know if the CoC can use this as a reason to move them from the top 50% to top 20%, but if they can, than the ranking will change. Same can be said if they can use the AFOQT scores.
    3. Again SFT ranking is part of the equation for all cadets. Chances are those that are DG will rise higher in positions held within the unit.
    ~ CoC can move them up again.

    Thus, even if you are correct, and I am not saying you are not; I am just saying I found 3 ways to raise their ranking. Great CoCs want to support their cadets, if feasible....IOWS they believe they are competitive.

    ENJPPT is insanely competitive. I think they only have 8 classes a year compared to 14 for the other UPT bases. Anyone that is offered it is lucky impo, but always remember this is like being the smartest kid in HS admitted to MIT, once you are there, you are in a new pool where everyone is your equal. Same is true for UPT and every rated slot. The slate is wiped clean. Nobody cares that you were the CWC or top 1% of your academic class. They care about now and you keeping up to their standards as a student from academics to simulators to flying.
     

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