Confused....

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by flying8764, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. flying8764

    flying8764 Member

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    I have read these boards for the past 8 months and they have been very helpful, thank you to all who provide input. Please bare with me as I am trying to understand this at a greater level and know we can only speculate but would like input. I also realize it is what it is until the end result and to be patient.

    I have a questions/thoughts I need help sorting out. Ill try not to confuse anyone in this.

    My DS is a qualified candidate to both the USNA and the USAFA. He received a NROTC scholarship to his first choice college and was accepted there so plan B is solid. He also received 1 nomination to the USNA from his congressman, his most wanted academy. This congressman does not share his list of nominations but his past from a thread on here with a link to an article shows his track records that he nominates either 0 or 1 candidate to the USNA per year and the other academies more. We can only assume my DS is the only one but in reality I would believe there is 1 or more.

    My DS also received 2 nominations from our senators to the USAFA. One senator nominated 10 and the other senator 20 kids. I do not know how many slots they each had open but can assume 1 for 10 and 2 for 20. Okay so just keep this in mind as you read through the next paragraph. I know I am jumping from SA to SA but it remains the same.

    One senator nominated 10 kids to the USNA, not one of my DS nominations because as I stated above his came from the congressman for the USNA but bare with me. Reading through the updates on the senators in our state that has been shared on his website, he has appointed so far 3 kids to the USNA, he original had 10 on his list. I googled these kids to see what district they are in which are not in mine and the congressmen in these districts also released he also appointed these same kids.

    Heres my questions:

    How is that possible? Who's slot is this against now-congressman or senators?

    If a senator has 10 kids chosen how is it possible he is appointing 3 and also that the congressman said they gave these same kids their appointments? That would be 2 slots for 1 kid.

    The other is, does the USNA or SAs have only so many slots per state to fill or does that not matter?

    I know if he is not chosen he falls to the NP. But I am confused.

    Thank you for your clarifications in advanced!
     
  2. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    There is no way to know that those kids are actually being charged to those MOCs. Just because they had a Nom from that MOC does not mean they have not qualified for a Presidential, VP, Supt, JROTC/ROTC, or some of the lesser known Noms for disabled/deceased vets. It is why we always caution not to get concerned when you see those in your district or state get appointments as there is no way of knowing where a SA is charging a Nom. This is not the entire picture, just part of it. Most will never know who their final Nom is charged to until they get a SA and actually look it up. There are no set amount of allotments per state or district or anywhere else. Hang in there. Your DS has a nom and that is the most important part.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
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  3. 5Day

    5Day Member

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    The service academy will offer an an appointment to one candidate from each MOC slate at a minimum, but they could pick all 10 if they wanted to. After the dust settles and the class fills they will figure out where to charge all the new cadets.
     
  4. 5Day

    5Day Member

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  5. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

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    USNA TRIES to make this statement true, however, there is no requirement for USNA to offer an appointment from a MOC slate if none of the nominees are qualified. Therefore, the minimum from the slate COULD be 0. In that case, the MOC is not charged with a vacancy for that year. Obviously, it is rare, but does happen a few times each year.
     
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  6. 5Day

    5Day Member

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    @usnabgo08 When I wrote my response I knew I was setting myself up for your response. You have taught me a lot about the process and I have actually read the US Code regulating USNA and the other SAs. USNAs statutory requirements are the least restrictive of any of the SAs. They have a lot of flexibility on appointing midshipman.

    For example: They are not required to admit a qualified principal nomination. They are not required to admit anyone, even if qualified, from a MOC slate. Read the code, USNA is not required to do either. So, COULD they YES, Would they, IMHO it would need to be an extreme case.
     
  7. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

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    Part of my job as a BGO is to make sure the correct information is being presented and I am only repeating what USNA Admissions has said on almost the exactly phrased issue/question. While I agree that they are extreme cases (such as the examples below), that is why most statements being posted by BGOs, alumni, etc. have caveats...because it isn't always a very straight-forward process.

    For example (non-SA specific), if one slate only has 1 scholastically qualified nominee (which is entirely possible), but they are medically disqualified and it isn't a waiverable condition....then no one will receive an offer. If a MOC doesn't submit a slate (which apparently does happen each year...not sure why) for whatever reason. So it isn't always that USNA just doesn't want to....I think I recall one person already posting that a MOC doesn't have any vacancies this year.
     
  8. Class2020Dad

    Class2020Dad Member

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    So MOC's do not necessarily know or care that the students they give a nom to will be 3Q'd???
     
  9. goforspaatz

    goforspaatz USAFA c/o 2020

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    The don't know but I assume (and hope!) they care. Often the MOC process is finished before applications are turned in to SAs, and SAs are not obligated to share 3Q information with the MOC. Additionally, what the SA uses as qualifying could be different from the MOC standards. It all depends, also on the competitiveness of the district.
     
  10. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    No they do not officially know if someone is 3Q. I have sat on interview panels before and we did not recommend a few kids for Noms because their SAT scores or grades just weren't where they should of been. Most MOCs will have their own set criteria they judge on like scores and grades to down select for interviews or even rankings.
     
  11. flying8764

    flying8764 Member

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    Another thought then is why is it better for you child to have more than one nomination to an academy if no one really knows where the nomination came from and all that matters is 1 nomination to said SA to be considered for an appointment? Ppl are saying that if a kid has more than 1 nomination to say the USNA then he has another chance at getting in versus a kid who had 1 nomination? I dont understand since the academies are left at this point to chose since our MOC's leave it up to the academy to decide the end result. The layers are killers in this process.
     
  12. 5Day

    5Day Member

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    They try to fill one spot per MOC. With 2 nominations you have 2 shots at being number 1. If you are second or lower on both slates then you are into the national pool. Competing with the other nominated qualified applicants. In the national pool the number of MOC nominations doesn't matter. You only need one to get in.
     
  13. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

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    In addition to what 5Day said....you are also only competing within the slate (not all other fully qualified candidates)....so potentially only 9 other nominees/candidates that one is trying to "beat." MOC non-slate winners are thrown in the national pool...which is really two national pools....the first is the top 150, in order (WPM), who were qualified alternates (i.e. non-slate winners from MOC [and MOC only] slates)...the second is a pool containing all non-slate winners (all nominating sources) but 75% of those chosen must come from the slates of the VP, MOCs, D.C., Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, or Guam.

    Having more than one nomination doesn't make the candidate more competitive, but potentially gives them more opportunities to be chosen from a slate.
     
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