Current Firstie (senior) at USNA, AMA

[Skipper07]

The NAPSters I know are all grateful for the extra experience in physics and chem. To echo some of the OGs above: plebes are typically advised to pick a major they won't mind doing at one or two in the morning.

 

[8th Wing Refugee]

In my day at USNA, I was amazed by those who were STEM whizzes but who could not put together a coherent paragraph to save their lives. A close friend is the CEO of a small, highly technical business. The person is an absolutely brilliant engineer. As a favor, I often edit slide presentations, proposals, etc. b/c the individual cannot write -- effectively or persuasively.

As CAPT MJ says, it's really important both in the Navy and outside that you can express yourself well in writing.

My two key elements stand for selecting your major at USNA: (1) Major in something you enjoy; and (2) Major in something you're good at.

I got the staff orderly watch plebe year for my company because I was the only one who validated 1st semester plebe english. Ended up mostly drafting and typing letters for the brigade commander and deputy brigade commander. Sure beat being mate of the deck.

 

[justdoit19]

As new to USNA, but seasoned to regular college mom, this ‘major’ piece was hard for me to grasp, and believe, that 1) it doesn't matter for your service selection and 2) it doesn’t matter in your ultimate career when/if you leave. I remember asking, and @Capt MJ provided a list of her past sponsor Mids and what they are doing. After that, I bought into it.

Do what you enjoy, what you are good at, and what you can see yourself working on at 2am. I believe!!

*I have saved, referred to, and sent that list to both of my guys.

 

[Capt MJ]

I got the staff orderly watch plebe year for my company because I was the only one who validated 1st semester plebe english. Ended up mostly drafting and typing letters for the brigade commander and deputy brigade commander. Sure beat being mate of the deck.

Well done! Being known as a go-to writer comes in handy. Always.

As a contract gig in amongst the paid consulting and pro bono work I do now in my third career following Navy and corporate, I edit and draft Senior Executive Service executive core qualification narratives and technical qualification narratives for job applications, that can run 8-12 pages or more. Depending on how much work I have to do, it’s a minimum $600, usually more. SES are senior Federal civil service executives equivalent to admirals and generals. I credit the thousands of professional documents I worked on in my Navy career for the foundation, with a nod to solid HS, college and graduate school academic writing. Lifelong skill that funds the travel and wine budget now!

 

[OldRetSWO]

Well done! Being known as a go-to writer comes in handy. Always.

As a contract gig in amongst the paid consulting and pro bono work I do now in my third career following Navy and corporate, I edit and draft Senior Executive Service executive core qualification narratives and technical qualification narratives for job applications, that can run 8-12 pages or more. Depending on how much work I have to do, it’s a minimum $600, usually more. SES are senior Federal civil service executives equivalent to admirals and generals. I credit the thousands of professional documents I worked on in my Navy career for the foundation, with a nod to solid HS, college and graduate school academic writing. Lifelong skill that funds the travel and wine budget now!

Yup


I spent quite a few years managing large proposals* in the Aerospace sector and in addition to the major Project Management piece, a big focus was pulling together a variety of inputs and wordsmithing them together into a coherent document that answered the customer's formal request along with any real but unwritten needs. My ability to do it came in no small part from thousands and thousands of professional documents, much of which were in the Navy.

* Total value proposed was well above $10B

 

[Capt MJ]

Yup


I spent quite a few years managing large proposals* in the Aerospace sector and in addition to the major Project Management piece, a big focus was pulling together a variety of inputs and wordsmithing them together into a coherent document that answered the customer's formal request along with any real but unwritten needs. My ability to do it came in no small part from thousands and thousands of professional documents, much of which were in the Navy.

* Total value proposed was well above $10B

I always quietly laughed when I would hear the paper-writing-averse mids in the house happily say “no more English class and writing after I finish this course, I won’t need to do this once I’m _______.” Ahhh, the JAGMAN investigations that will grace their To Do list.

 

[commando530]

While I know your major does not matter for what you service select, I’ve heard there are exceptions for communities like the Civil Engineering Corps where you must have an accredited engineering degree or some type of computer science for Cryptological Warfare. Is this true specifically to the CEC? I’m interested in the CEC but USNA doesn’t have civil engineering and I don’t think I fit in with the other engineering majors. (this question can apply to all accession sources*)

 

[OldRetSWO]

While I know your major does not matter for what you service select, I’ve heard there are exceptions for communities like the Civil Engineering Corps where you must have an accredited engineering degree or some type of computer science for Cryptological Warfare. Is this true specifically to the CEC? I’m interested in the CEC but USNA doesn’t have civil engineering and I don’t think I got in with the other engineering majors. (this question can apply to all accession sources*)

Mids are not allowed to service select into the CEC unless they are NPQ (Not Physically Qualified). Since most NPQ folks are not admitted in the first place, most that I've ever seen were things that were first found while they were already at USNA. Yes, there is not a Civil Eng major at USNA but the CEC does accept other engineering disciplines. Since it is generally not open to mids at Service Selection, it generally requires a Lateral Transfer from another warfare community such as SWO. Mids would Service Select SWO, get qualified as a SWO and excel in their assignment and a few years later, they can apply to Lat Transfer to CEC.

 

[commando530]

Mids are not allowed to service select into the CEC unless they are NPQ (Not Physically Qualified). Since most NPQ folks are not admitted in the first place, most that I've ever seen were things that were first found while they were already at USNA. Yes, there is not a Civil Eng major at USNA but the CEC does accept other engineering disciplines. Since it is generally not open to mids at Service Selection, it generally requires a Lateral Transfer from another warfare community such as SWO. Mids would Service Select SWO, get qualified as a SWO and excel in their assignment and a few years later, they can apply to Lat Transfer to CEC.

Thank you for the explanation sir. That clarifies a lot of things I thought of when I saw that there were 4 mids in the class of 2021 service assigned to the CEC back in November. These 4 mids were most likely NPQ and also engineering majors?

 

[MABlue]

Thank you for the explanation sir. That clarifies a lot of things I thought of when I saw that there were 4 mids in the class of 2021 service assigned to the CEC back in November. These 4 mids were most likely NPQ and also engineering majors?

Yes, at least from the class of 2020, everyone who went CEC was NPQ + Engineering (it can be any kind of engineering or architecture), just needs to be from an accredited program, which USNA is. On the other hand, if you go to a civilian engineering school, you can directly enter CEC through OCS regardless of physical qualification as long as you meet the accession requirements set forth by NAVFAC

 

[Kierkegaard]

There was actually one physically qualified mid in the class of ‘21 this year who earned an assignment into the CEC. They were a prior seabee, had a stellar academic and military performance record, recommendations from at least one flag officer, and got special permission from the Supe. Never would have seen that coming but midshipmen are a persistent bunch and it paid off in this one case. Typically though yes it’s limited to those not physically qualified to go restricted line, and they must be an engineering major. For the Cyber and Crypto communities they prefer computer science, computer engineering, or IT majors (Not sure if that’s a hard requirement, but I’ve never heard of anyone getting selected who was not one). Med Corps selects are usually chem majors but that’s not a requirement, it’s only because the med school pre-requisites are covered in the major. There have been humanities majors that have been selected. Most mids who go to subs are STEM majors but that is also not a requirement.

 

[ET3toMid]

Thanks. It looks like a set curriculum geared toward STEM, so probably not good choice for a political science major, for example.

Naps is what's in the name, a PREP school. It's for people that would struggle with the core courses (or have been out of school a while... I went to nuke school which is NOT like "real college" haha). People of every major end up coming out of NAPS. By graduation you can't really tell who was a NAPster or not, unless they have more uniform items than the other people.

The history department seems to be doing that sort of recruitment. It could be true that they need such folk or it could be a way of recruiting history majors in a sea of STEM. I call it “blowing smoke up your ...” and my guard hairs stick up. Similar pitch given to my DS last year (and it worked!) - my two older sons are Chem Eng and I am an Eng so he’s definitely the odd duck. I sure hope his gambit pans out.

I do not think there is any sort of official "recruiting", however professors definitely pick there favorite plebes and guide them towards their subject (why wouldn't they? It MUST be awesome if I got a PhD in it).

seems odd to me that any department would be "recruiting" mids for their major program, even more odd is a "hard press".

why would the history dept do that? is their enrollment dropping? are they afraid of losing teaching / staff headcount? nothing against History, it's a fine major, but in a school the is heavily focused on STEM, where STEM is prioritized in admissions and overall recruiting, it's wouldn't be surprising if fewer mids are choosing it.

i know that mids aren't guaranteed their choice of major, but most get what they want. what's next, a History draft to keep the dept alive?

Any draft would work the other way in favor of STEM which is congress mandated. Also, remember that "History" majors here are taking up to Calc 3, EE, Thermo, etc so.... more like you got a STEM degree with History electives.

For the OP, attrition is MUCH lower today than it was when us old folks were there (~10% today vs. ~25% in the 80s and 90s). And it's much lower than today's attrition at USMA and USAFA. While you obviously can't speak to the past, what do you think accounts for more people staying?

Also, have you found your academic classes extremely challenging all the time, sometimes challenging, or easier than expected?

Well, they don't hit people any more. Sort of joking sort of not. Google what asking a plebe to "hang out" used to mean. As far as compared to the other Service Academies... I haven't been to them! I will say though perhaps USMA and USAFA being on the outer reaches of civilization could compound homesickness. Before COVID, and after plebe year, it very much felt like I was more of an adult on the weekends... could put up a request to go to most major cities on the East Coast.


Sorry for the late replies to this! Hope the thread didn't die. Capstone, my billet, and my girlfriend conspired to keep me pretty busy lately.

 

[ET3toMid]

There was actually one physically qualified mid in the class of ‘21 this year who earned an assignment into the CEC. They were a prior seabee, had a stellar academic and military performance record, recommendations from at least one flag officer, and got special permission from the Supe. Never would have seen that coming but midshipmen are a persistent bunch and it paid off in this one case. Typically though yes it’s limited to those not physically qualified to go restricted line, and they must be an engineering major. For the Cyber and Crypto communities they prefer computer science, computer engineering, or IT majors (Not sure if that’s a hard requirement, but I’ve never heard of anyone getting selected who was not one). Med Corps selects are usually chem majors but that’s not a requirement, it’s only because the med school pre-requisites are covered in the major. There have been humanities majors that have been selected. Most mids who go to subs are STEM majors but that is also not a requirement.

That girl pulled out all the stops, I know who you are talking about. Anything is possible, worst thing they can say is "no" and you're back where you were anyhow.

 

[NavyHoops]

We had 3 in my class go CEC, 2 were NPQ and 1 was not. The one who was not, also pulled out all the stops. It happens, but one must have an exceptional record and really advocate for themselves. As @ET3toMid stated... learning ‘the worst thing they can say is no’ is something Mids and officers learn.

 

[OldRetSWO]

Google what asking a plebe to "hang out" used to mean.

Thanks but I don't need to look it up!

It was already a banned activity so my company firsties were "kind" enough to have us experience it and other banned activities so that we'd know what they were if we encountered them. They actually gave us refreshers on a fairly regular basis to ensure that we did not forget.

 

[justdoit19]

What is commissioning week looking like for ‘21? There is a parent event, zoom style, for firstie families. So I do will come via that. But what is a firstie’s perspective?

 

[usna1985]

Know of a history major who was selected for subs this year. In my day, a history major was not only selected for subs but went on to command a sub.

As a general rule, major doesn't matter. As noted by others above, there are some situations where having a certain major makes life easier, such as chem for med school because it help you fit in the 3-6-5 organic course that's required for med school admission. Being a STEM major probably makes nuke power school easier. Sounds like certain majors are close to requisites for cyber warfare. But most mids go aviation, subs, surface line or USMC ground and all majors work for those.

Plebes don't select majors until second semester. There is plenty of time to discuss your intended career path and the benefits / drawbacks of certain majors prior to that time. There are many people on the Yard (mids, profs, company officers) who will be more than willing to share their views and experiences with plebes.

 

[Heatherg21]

Plebes don't select majors until second semester. There is plenty of time to discuss your intended career path and the benefits / drawbacks of certain majors prior to that time. There are many people on the Yard (mids, profs, company officers) who will be more than willing to share their views and experiences with plebes.

Our DS is looking forward to 12 March when they find out their majors. He said the exposure to different departments and mentorship from instructors was great. 'Major Fairs' were informational and for him, confirmed what he had always wanted to major in. The labs are impressive based on what he described.

 

[ThereseInDenver]

Great feedback, all-thanks! Re: why "recruiting".... Most of the majors are presented in "major fairs" as Heatherg21's daughter described. Knowing that the herd pressure to go STEM is strong, profs sought appointments 1:1 before March with plebes whose performance so far indicates they have a natural gift for writing/history/poli-sci. In the absence of a Hogworts sorting hat....they just want to make sure that this particular subset hears the message about not following friends, roommates into something they "can" do, but don't love. A week before, he was told by an upperclassman Engineering major, (paraphrasing) "the Navy will get what they need out of you. The most miserable people I know are those who chose the major they thought was expected of them. Not only are they struggling on CQPR, they are realizing they would be miserable doing this as a civilian. Major in what you like and are naturally good at. "

 

[Tom Nicholas]

Happy to hear about someone navigating this path successfully!

1. Did you enlist hoping to follow this path? (fleet to USNA)
2. How did you find out about this path?
3. With whom generally did you speak to get the ball rolling? Your div officer, XO, etc.?
4. Did you do some prep while in the fleet?
5. Do you think most fleet to USNA people go to NAPS?
6. Do NAPS students also take the SAT or does NAPS kind of envelop that?
7. As enlisted, did you become emancipated (establish a new "home address" in the state your ship was home ported)? Do students completing NAPS need to get congressional nominations or is that not needed?

Thanks, continued good luck to you, and Gooo Navy!