Decision time

[texdad2023]

I get it - not everyone posts that their DS or DD has made a decision. But it has been a long process. DS did summer programs at both WP and Navy. Leaned Navy but not by much 60/40. Did overnight at Navy in October. Heavily leaned Navy 70/30. Received appointments to both around December. He wanted to accept Navy then. I counselled him to talk to as many people as possible and do an overnight at West Point. Given his sports season/spring break, the best time to do an overnight was last week. So that was 3 months of thinking/speculating but expecting the answer to be Navy. When anyone asked where he was going to school he would just say Navy rather than he got into both and was just deciding (he didn't want to brag). He did his WP overnight last week, and he made the decision to accept West Point! I feel like West Point fits his personality and academic interest more. I think his mom was a little surprised by the change. I think she is worried about the weather and the physical demands. We know a student from his high school who did not make it through Beast last year, and he was a pretty good athlete. (we don't know all of the circumstances). She also feels that there are more opportunities to see your kid at Navy. We know of a midshipman who said he had so many weekend passes, he actually couldn't use them all. Navy has so many positives - impossible to list here. I would be so proud if he went there. We get that many people would do anything to just get into one, so very proud/humble that he had the choice. The choice has been made - he has "clicked the button". But wondering if anyone knows, how many students get into more than one Academy? For those that get into Army and Navy - what % choose Army vs what % choose Navy. I have heard anecdotally, that more choose Navy but I don't know that for sure. Does anyone know? Also, any advice for a worried mother?

 

[MidCakePa]

For those that get into Army and Navy - what % choose Army vs what % choose Navy. I have heard anecdotally, that more choose Navy but I don't know that for sure. Does anyone know? Also, any advice for a worried mother?

There are no official numbers for this. Certainly there’ll be people who chime in and say they were offered by X and Y and Z and chose ___. But that’s anecdotal, from a small and probably non-representative sample.

In the end, does it matter? Does it affect the decision in any way? Does it impact the ultimate experience? No, no, no. As many sage posters here say: Bloom where you’re planted. And as I say: College is a match to be made, not a prize to be won.

In the end, both USMA and USNA have so many positives. And some negatives too. But for any individual, it comes down to personal fit. And that’s a feel thing, a culture thing, hard to put into empirical explanation. Have faith that your son has chosen well, then encourage, support and console as necessary. If he has a typical SA experience, he’ll need all three. Best wishes!

 

[A1Janitor]

You are right about the weather mom! I have lived nearly 57 years in upstate NY. That’s one contributing reason my son wanted only Annapolis.

Agree with @MidCakePa - it doesn’t matter.

How many people applied to just one but would have been accepted into more than one?

Evidence I have come across is 90% prefer Navy.

 

[texdad2023]

There are no official numbers for this. Certainly there’ll be people who chime in and say they were offered by X and Y and Z and chose ___. But that’s anecdotal, from a small and probably non-representative sample.

In the end, does it matter? Does it affect the decision in any way? Does it impact the ultimate experience? No, no, no. As many sage posters here say: Bloom where you’re planted. And as I say: College is a match to be made, not a prize to be won.

In the end, both USMA and USNA have so many positives. And some negatives too. But for any individual, it comes down to personal fit. And that’s a feel thing, a culture thing, hard to put into empirical explanation. Have faith that your son has chosen well, then encourage, support and console as necessary. If he has a typical SA experience, he’ll need all three. Best wishes!

I get your point, but it would matter if 99 out of 100 choose Navy over West Point. That would tell you something. If it was 50/50 or even 60/40 that it comes down to culture/fitness. We are not military parents and couldn't tell you whether being in the Army or Navy is better/worse.

 

[TX_USA]

I get your point, but it would matter if 99 out of 100 choose Navy over West Point. That would tell you something. If it was 50/50 or even 60/40 that it comes down to culture/fitness. We are not military parents and couldn't tell you whether being in the Army or Navy is better/worse.

Let me weigh in, it will all be amazing for him at USMA!

This one hits a little close to home too…I come from a Navy family, who were extremely biased for me to attend Annapolis. Getting into West Point was exciting because of the prospect that it was a service academy, but there were many heated discussions around the dinner table of family arguing whether army would “actually be the place for me” and if it was a “good choice.” My family had a lot of doubts about the army going in and we’re asking a lot of the same questions that you posed in your first post. It was completely foreign to them, and honestly the months leading up to R-Day kind of sucked because of it. My advice is to stop asking questions of “which one is better” and “how many people choose West Point over Annapolis,” because it doesn’t matter at all. He’s already made his decision, and besides, even if your kid is the 1/100 that chose USMA over USNA, it’s YOUR SON that chose West Point, not some other random kid. Trust me, he’s gonna need y’all’s unwaivering support over the next four years, so stop asking those questions and just go all in!

It sucked to go into this place with doubts from family, it often made me question myself if it was really the right decision…

Spoiler: It was the right decision.

Good luck to him and congratulations!

 

[MidCakePa]

I get your point, but it would matter if 99 out of 100 choose Navy over West Point. That would tell you something. If it was 50/50 or even 60/40 that it comes down to culture/fitness. We are not military parents and couldn't tell you whether being in the Army or Navy is better/worse.

I’m willing to wager a week’s salary that it’s much closer to 50/50 than 90/10. Now, go ask the question outside the gates of USNA or USMA and surely someone will tell you it’s 90/10. But is that empirical? Surely not.

With all due respect, if it was 99 out of 100 choosing Navy and my kid chose Army, that would be just fine with me because it would convince me they chose WP for very personal reasons and not to simply follow the crowd. For anyone who makes that decision, I have nothing but respect.

 

[Jetbill]

I get it - not everyone posts that their DS or DD has made a decision. But it has been a long process. DS did summer programs at both WP and Navy. Leaned Navy but not by much 60/40. Did overnight at Navy in October. Heavily leaned Navy 70/30. Received appointments to both around December. He wanted to accept Navy then. I counselled him to talk to as many people as possible and do an overnight at West Point. Given his sports season/spring break, the best time to do an overnight was last week. So that was 3 months of thinking/speculating but expecting the answer to be Navy. When anyone asked where he was going to school he would just say Navy rather than he got into both and was just deciding (he didn't want to brag). He did his WP overnight last week, and he made the decision to accept West Point! I feel like West Point fits his personality and academic interest more. I think his mom was a little surprised by the change. I think she is worried about the weather and the physical demands. We know a student from his high school who did not make it through Beast last year, and he was a pretty good athlete. (we don't know all of the circumstances). She also feels that there are more opportunities to see your kid at Navy. We know of a midshipman who said he had so many weekend passes, he actually couldn't use them all. Navy has so many positives - impossible to list here. I would be so proud if he went there. We get that many people would do anything to just get into one, so very proud/humble that he had the choice. The choice has been made - he has "clicked the button". But wondering if anyone knows, how many students get into more than one Academy? For those that get into Army and Navy - what % choose Army vs what % choose Navy. I have heard anecdotally, that more choose Navy but I don't know that for sure. Does anyone know? Also, any advice for a worried mother?

We've just been through a very similar journey. I can relate to the Gratitude you've obviously feeling to have the "first world problem" of selecting which appointment DS should select. In his case it was USAFA and USMA, and just 10 days ago USCGA entered into the "equation" with an Appointment. For him it was 3 yrs of Applications, and the last 2 years as a self-prep surrounded by mostly sponsored kids prepping.
This journey started out with USAFA being the primary goal. And then USCGA took over as choice 1, this past summer. At MMI this year, he feel in Love with West Point as well.
After initially receiving USMA appointment in Dec we celebrated, and thought, "wouldn't it be cool if you ended up having a choice....we'll see what happens"?
When all that actually happened it turned into, "I wish I had only gotten one". Due to the fact, that he was so torn in his decision making. And he was truly so honored to receive these offers, he didn't want to tell anyone "no thanks".
There were several flip flops, and a final decision based on a ton of expert opinions.
Ultimately it camecdown to which opportunity are you most excited about for YOU! Because he knows he may need that inner "excitement" to sustain him through a difficult 47 months to come, and obviously beyond!
Turns out it's USMA! And we couldn't be more proud of our son, and HONORED with his having the choice of all three SAs that he applied too.
Nothing but Gratitude here, but it was a surprisingly difficult and stress inducing end result, that had him mentally exhausted. Followed by elation going fwd, once there no longer was a choice. Overall, I'd say Mom and Dad did a decent job, weighing in with support, but leaving it entirely up to him. He earned it.

 

[davy1dave]

DS chose USMA over USNA. And he was on the same path as yours 90% USNA last summer. The one thing I will encourage any candidate faced with this blessed choice, do an overnight at both locations before your decision is made. That's the only way they're going to be able to make an informed decision.

For DS, it wasn't anything academic, etc. Like everyone has said, they are both amazing places to get into. He just clicked with the atmosphere and the cadre who he had a chance to meet.

Additionally, defend your cadet candidate from the naysayers. It's not their life, it's your child's. Defend and respect their decision and don't let anyone fill their mind with doubt about their choice.

 

[Allectus]

DS is a second year at West Point. We are from the south about 12 hours drive away and a non-military family. DS loves West Point.

As to weather, it it not that bad--plus DS loves seeing snow! We get text messages when the first flakes fall. There is humidity in the summer but nothing like what we experience where we live.

According to DS the trick to surviving Beast is to treat it like a mind game and take it one day at a time. Also helps to run and be in shape before reporting for R-day.

Also, surprisingly we saw a fair amount of DS in his first year. We met him at A-day and parents weekend, plus he flew home for Thanksgiving. We also visited him over Army-Navy weekend, Easter, and Plebe-Parent weekend, plus he flew home for Spring Break. Some of his classmates flew home on certain 3 day weekends. All in all it wasn't too bad for him. He did say that when things were tough, he would head out to Trophy Point and look around and up the Hudson River and think to himself how lucky he was to be there.

If your son chose West Point there is something that spoke to him about the place. That is helpful in the tough days. A Service Academy is a very difficult place to be if you really don't want to be there or you are there just because other people thought you ought to go there.

Congratulations to you and your DS, and best wishes to him in the year ahead!

 

[USMAZoo98]

The path for your son is already laid out if he has accepted to West Point. There is no point now in reflecting back on what might have been with Navy as an option. He needs to prepare himself physically, mentally, and emotionally for the experience. The parents need to prepare mentally and emotionally, and provide all the support necessary to encourage success. He should not worry about the person who he knows who did not make it through Beast. There are certainly many factors that led to that outcome for that cadet candidate. Clearly your son has a heart for service if he has been focused on both academies.

And as an aside, weather and number of opportunities to visit should not ever factor into the decision of where to accept. Yes the weather at West Point may be a little harsher at times than Annapolis, but I can tell you it has equal parts beautiful weather as well. The environment is part of the experience.

Good luck to your son!

 

[RedDragon]

We've just been through a very similar journey. I can relate to the Gratitude you've obviously feeling to have the "first world problem" of selecting which appointment DS should select. In his case it was USAFA and USMA, and just 10 days ago USCGA entered into the "equation" with an Appointment. For him it was 3 yrs of Applications, and the last 2 years as a self-prep surrounded by mostly sponsored kids prepping.
This journey started out with USAFA being the primary goal. And then USCGA took over as choice 1, this past summer. At MMI this year, he feel in Love with West Point as well.
After initially receiving USMA appointment in Dec we celebrated, and thought, "wouldn't it be cool if you ended up having a choice....we'll see what happens"?
When all that actually happened it turned into, "I wish I had only gotten one". Due to the fact, that he was so torn in his decision making. And he was truly so honored to receive these offers, he didn't want to tell anyone "no thanks".
There were several flip flops, and a final decision based on a ton of expert opinions.
Ultimately it camecdown to which opportunity are you most excited about for YOU! Because he knows he may need that inner "excitement" to sustain him through a difficult 47 months to come, and obviously beyond!
Turns out it's USMA! And we couldn't be more proud of our son, and HONORED with his having the choice of all three SAs that he applied too.
Nothing but Gratitude here, but it was a surprisingly difficult and stress inducing end result, that had him mentally exhausted. Followed by elation going fwd, once there no longer was a choice. Overall, I'd say Mom and Dad did a decent job, weighing in with support, but leaving it entirely up to him. He earned it.

Great to hear. We have 1 WP grad who chose Army over USAFA and USCGA. It was all Coast Guard his junior year, then USAFA over the summer in between and finally USMA after a visit in the fall. Right choice for him and he is flying helos at the moment. His older brother is a USAFA grad and wasn’t able to sway him to move out to Colorado. Really great for mom and dad as we were able to visit 2 of the truely great spots in the US.

 

[NJDadofDSUSMA2024Hopeful]

I skimmed the responses, but I'm surprised no one said what I have read a hundred times on these forums...would your DS rather be in the Army or the Navy? B/c he's going to have 5 years after school and perhaps far longer in one of the two branches.
My son surprised me when he chose a civilian school (Vanderbilt) and AROTC over USMA. He wanted more balance.
Kids who get appointments to USMA and USNA likely have a bevy of great choices, with likely no "bad" choice to be made. It's what you make of it and where you see yourself better.
My DS has been really happy at Vandy and he heads off to Advanced Camp in June and an internship at USMA in July, so as luck would have it, he's getting a taste of USMA anyway.

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

I have someone at USNA now and they would love to have some of that leave that mid has that has too much.

Plebs are not the ones complaining they have too much leave. Leave does increase like it does at the USMA as years go by.

You know someone who was a good athletic and did not make it thru summer Beast?

The exact same happens at the USNA. Physical and more mental or stress drop outs who are DoR as early as day one.

All summer on the Yard you see the limping, the lame, those who need surgery, and those on crutches.

Good luck to you and yours except when playing Navy.

 

[OldRetSWO]

And as an aside, weather and number of opportunities to visit should not ever factor into the decision of where to accept. Yes the weather at West Point may be a little harsher at times than Annapolis, but I can tell you it has equal parts beautiful weather as well. The environment is part of the experience.

I totally echo this.
The differences in terms of weather and opportunities to visit over the very fast 4 yrs are very minor when stacked up against the magnitude of the service opportunities/challenges after graduation.

 

[JohnMcLane]

Your DS is not choosing a school, he is choosing a profession. The troops whose lives will be entrusted to him don't care about his college experience. They care that he is all-in at his job and is in it to win it. Don't plan from a service academy forward; plan from career goals, desires, interests, and talents going backwards.

 

[texdad2023]

1. He did get into a few good civilian schools - ranging from $250K to $360K for four years. We didn't really get onto the whole ROTC thing until later. Yes he could apply for his sophomore year. However, he had his heart set on the military academies. We did say we would pay for whatever he chose, but I think he knows his sister is coming along and didn't want to hurt her.

2. As I said - I am happy with his choice. I am not second guessing - and I would always support his decision. That is why I asked him to wait 3 months to do an overnight. Without it, he would have probably selected Navy and never looked back. I just had a "thought" in my head that he would fit better with Army.

3. Even where we are from where we get 234 days of sunshine he gets a little low in the winter. There are 190 at West Point and 208 at Annapolis.

4. I somewhat disagree about knowing what you want to do afterwards. Its hard for an 18 year old to say whether he would rather serve in the Army or Navy at this point. I would say 70% of kids who start school don't know what career path they will take and probably most of the other 30% will change their plans as well. I knew exactly what I wanted to do going into undergrad and sometimes I wish I had take a couple of years to figure it out before plowing through.

 

[JohnMcLane]

1. He did get into a few good civilian schools - ranging from $250K to $360K for four years. We didn't really get onto the whole ROTC thing until later. Yes he could apply for his sophomore year. However, he had his heart set on the military academies. We did say we would pay for whatever he chose, but I think he knows his sister is coming along and didn't want to hurt her.

2. As I said - I am happy with his choice. I am not second guessing - and I would always support his decision. That is why I asked him to wait 3 months to do an overnight. Without it, he would have probably selected Navy and never looked back. I just had a "thought" in my head that he would fit better with Army.

3. Even where we are from where we get 234 days of sunshine he gets a little low in the winter. There are 190 at West Point and 208 at Annapolis.

4. I somewhat disagree about knowing what you want to do afterwards. Its hard for an 18 year old to say whether he would rather serve in the Army or Navy at this point. I would say 70% of kids who start school don't know what career path they will take and probably most of the other 30% will change their plans as well. I knew exactly what I wanted to do going into undergrad and sometimes I wish I had take a couple of years to figure it out before plowing through.

3. If weather is a big concern when your kid is getting three hot meals and a warm bed every single night some introspection is in order. After commissioning, preferences like weather, proximity to family, etc come into play and hopefully can be accommodated.

4. 18-year-olds decide whether they would rather serve in the Army or Navy every day. And those 18yo's have to decide on their specialty right then. No one pursuing a commission has to get to that level of detail of specialty (normally) until long into their junior or senior year of college. How does he see himself? Even within each service, there are huge differences in experiences.

These decisions are challenging both for parents and the kids. Your kid needs to follow his gut instincts.

Whatever he does, he will be a good fit and make you and the rest of us proud.

 

[Monikat]

Hi Texdad2023,

Your son will be joining my daughter in the 2027 class! She chose USMA after attending SLE and Summer Session (summary: because she likes mud more than boats)

So, while the above folks have much more insight than me, I do want to address your wife's concern re weather. We are in Los Angeles, so even your Texas weather is rough for us. But these kids are young and tough and they can hack it!

I have a good friend who has a Yuk from our area with a story that you might find relevant. I'm going to relay it--but disclaimer that I'm not a medical person, so I'll just relay it in the way it was relayed to me (by the mom, who is also not a medical person).

When her Yuk was a Plebe, he started to have a rough time (I think he was getting weak). When they (the WP medical people) saw he was from Southern California, they said, oh, of course---California kid--let's check his Vitamin D levels...and he was way under. They gave him some super-cocktail of something and he bounced right back.

As told to me, the easiest and best way to absorb Vit. D is thru the sun-on-skin, and the body will choose to absorb it that way rather than thru food. When you grow up in gray climates, your body adapts to not getting enough sun in winter, and will get it from food. But if you grow up in a sunny climate, your body has no experience with a sun exposure deficit, so doesn't make the switch to get it from food. So...Vit. D supplementation is super-important for those from sunny climates!

Okay, please know I could have mangled the story, but even if so, your wife might take comfort in buying your son some Vitamin D...(just to help her with the illusion of control, here)

 

[dddad]

. I somewhat disagree about knowing what you want to do afterwards. Its hard for an 18 year old to say whether he would rather serve in the Army or Navy at this point. I would say 70% of kids who start school don't know what career path they will take and probably most of the other 30% will change their plans as well. I knew exactly what I wanted to do going into undergrad and sometimes I wish I had take a couple of years to figure it out before plowing through.

There is no question that at 18 years old your DS (and any young man or woman) can easily change their minds about career paths. Arguably, Navy offers a wider range of pathways. But, I wouldn't discount the fact that there are 17 branches in the Army from which Cadets select preferences. And, if your DS finds himself on the wrong trajectory entirely, he can out process prior to the Fall term of 2/C year without any negative financial ramifications. The truth is that every New Cadet is, to some extent, rolling the dice and hoping that they picked the right Service Academy and the right career path. Your DS has no choice but to listen to himself and make his best choice. And, it sounds like you did a good job assisting him with that. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean you won't be worrying for the next few months or years.

 

[ALF648]

@texdad2023 our DS is class of 25 at USMA. Exact same scenario and decision timeline as your son experienced. He is happy/satisfied with his path depending on the day. He would have most likely sought to branch Marines had he gone to Annapolis so the choice was understandable to us

PM me if you’d like to get more context