Did I fail the CFA?

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by frenzymando, Jun 29, 2015.

  1. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    I ran the mile in 8:11, is this a failing score? I'm not trying to make excuses, but I started cramping after pull ups and I drank a bunch of water to try and fix the cramping but that didn't help the cramping and just made me feel like I was going to throw up. I did pretty well in everything else if that might compensate for my mile. 71 foot basketball throw, 14 pull ups, 8.2 shuttle run, 61 sit ups, and 61 push ups.
     
  2. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    Your sit-ups are below the average also (72 for male). You have plenty of time to practice the run and sit-ups and improve these scores, then submit the CFA. My DS was asked to redo his CFA because of the BB score and he submitted the second CFA in November.

    I would suggest working on all of these areas, doing the CFA again and then submitting it. Average/above average scores may not cut it depending on your competition. It is a small part of the entire WCS, but you do have to pass to be qualified, and the higher the scores the better.
     
  3. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    Alright, I'll probably try it again. Do you think I still passed even with the below average sit ups and mile time?

    Also, if I do worse the 2nd time around do you know if they will they keep my 1st score? I did better than I normally do on pull ups and basketball throw and I'm unsure if I would be able to get the same scores again.
     
  4. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    No one here, except the FFRs (?), know what the minimum scores are. I do know that the CFA isn't superscored, so if you've submitted the CFA and ask to retake it (if allowed), the first one will be deleted (that's what my DS was told) once the second one is submitted. Depending on who is administering it for you, you should be able to ask him/her what your scores are and then decide if it should be submitted or redone.

    The best advice my DS got, besides working on the weak events, is to practice the entire CFA together, as that is how it's administered. You may be able to max each individual event on its own, but because of fatigue you will be slower in the latter events. I hope this helps.
     
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  5. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    This person on college confidential ran the mile in 8:10 and said he passed so hopefully 8:11 is passing too.

    That's a good idea because I can run the mile in about 6:20 normally. I think it may have been a bad decision to go all out on the pull ups, I really pushed myself to get the last 2 or 3 and it really took a lot out of me and it made me start cramping. If I had just stopped at 10 I may have done better in the rest of the events. Thanks for the help!
     
  6. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    Um, is all you want to do is "pass?"
     
  7. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    I'd like to get a better score, and I'll probably retake it, but I would like to have gotten a passing score too. I have football practice every week for the rest of the summer (this week is the only week off from practice we have the entire summer which is why I took it now) and then the season doesn't end until November at the earliest and December at the latest, so there won't be another time I won't be extremely sore for a couple months. I have to submit applications for nominations sometime in October, and having failed the CFA probably won't help me get a nomination.
     
  8. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    Frenzy, fencersmother does not want to hear even one exculpation. No. You play football so you MAY be sore. If you are sososo sore you can't take the CFA sometime in four months, then you are not in the best conditioning.

    No excuses, young man. Is that what you want to hear from those who lead YOU? Oh, I couldn't because I was busy/tired/sore. Sorry! Just doesn't cut it.
     
  9. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    I don't have a problem with doing the CFA during the football season, but I do have a problem with doing the CFA during the football season and only being able to do 1 pull up. If I took the CFA another time I might do better at the mile(I probably wouldn't encounter the same problems I did this time) but I highly doubt I would be able to get my other scores again, muchless improve them. I might try it once during the season, but I will be very surprised if I do better.
     
  10. USNA2020

    USNA2020 Member

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    You know if you get in to an academy, they test your fitness on the first day and they see if you can do as many pull-ups as you reported on your CFA.. so I recommend keeping up the 14 pull-ups. Also, it sounds like you could easily drop 2 minutes on your mile time by just not drinking that much water.. even if you do worse the second time, you should still retake it. Even if 8:11 is passing, you should not settle for the score. They like to see candidates retake the CFA because it shows dedication.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I would not submit those scores. Why the rush to submit now? You can't get an appointment until you have a nomination. Most MoCs do not request your CFA scores for their nomination package

    If the CFA for USMA is the same as USAFA, it is fail one portion, you fail the entire thing. Additionally, you don't want to leave any points on the table for your WCS. Yes, the CFA is very little in the total score aspect, but to get an appointment you have to win the nomination. It could be that your score is the make or break. If you are okay with that thought, and will not look back with a what if? than submit it now. However, if you are not okay with that idea, than wait.

    I would be really shocked that your pullups would go from a 14 to a 1 during the FB season. If that is your fear, than buy a pull up bar for your door and keep practicing every day.

    If USMAs CFA is the same maxxes as USAFA you can see how far off you are.
    BBall:100
    Pullups 18
    Mile: 5:45 (I think)
    Push ups 95
    Sit ups 85
    ~ I might have the sit ups and push ups reversed, but you get the idea of how far off you are from max points.

    I would be really shocked if your FB coach would say you can't be 15 minutes late to practice one time, especially since you could get one of them to proctor it for you. I would think if you explained it to them they would be willing to accommodate your needs. Nobody says you have to take it after practice. You just assumed that was how it had to be done. It never hurts to ask.

    Good luck.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    USNA2020,
    I totally disagree with your last sentence. USMA has to reopen the portal for them. That means they must feel the candidate is competitive enough that they are willing to give them a 2nd chance. The candidate can request to have it reopened, but there is no guarantee they will.

    It is wrong to assume that everyone and anyone can take the CFA more than once. It is risky to advise anyone to go down that path.

    I don't think they see a CFA retake as showing dedication.

    I would follow ca2mid's advice. They are spot on. Notice they also stated, the IF they allow it. Don't submit until you are sure you can't do any better.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2015
  13. bookreader

    bookreader Member

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    My son's FFR told him that it is perfectly fine to take the CFA more than once. In fact, he was told that USMA likes to see improvement in the CFA scores so this is a reason to take it more than once even if you passed the first time. My son took it 3 times. The third time was at SLE. He worked to improve each time (but he passed the first time). He liked the idea of working to best his previous scores. He is currently at CBT (watched him take the oath yesterday).

    It is intersting to me that that we've heard different advice on this point. And this is what makes anyone new to this process totally confused!
     
  14. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    Did he take the CFA and submit the scores to WP 3 times? Or did he just take the CFA until he got the scores he wanted, then submitted them?
     
  15. bookreader

    bookreader Member

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    I had always assumes that he submitted them 3 times, but to be honest, I have no idea. It's just an assumption on my part because I that that was what WP wanted. He's at CBT now so I can't ask him.
    And I assumed that the CFT scores taken during SLE are automatically submitted but again, that's just an assumption on my part. My assumption is that everything done at SLE is part of their official record.
     
  16. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

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    We need to make sure that what is posted is accurate for the Academy being discussed. As far as I know, USMA allows multiple submissions of the CFA. USAFA does not. USMA allows the CFA from SLE to be used for the application. USAFA does not let candidates count the CFA from Summer Seminar. If any of this has changed, please correct me.

    My point is, however, that information for one Academy does not necessarily apply to the others.

    Stealth_81
     
  17. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    Maybe a current FFR knows, but I don't think more than one CFA can be listed on the portal. Your DS would have had to ask to have the old one removed so a new set of scores could be uploaded.

    In my DS's case, his BB score was below the average -- everything else was well above the average. He received a letter (can't remember if it was in the portal or by mail) that requested he retake the CFA due to the BB score and referenced his being a highly competitive candidate. All the information he received before this was to submit his best scores ... not to expect a redo. His first time taking it was at SLE '13, and although his scores hovered around the average (except BB, was below average) it never showed up on his portal. Overall he took it 3 times but submitted it twice.
     
  18. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    I felt like doing a some calculations regarding my CFA and I thought I'd share. I averaged 16 CFA scores from 16 appointees, and the average came out at 566.5(out of 800). 800 divided by 6(the number of CFA events) is 133.3. 566.5 divided by 6 is 94.4. If I assume the average scores listed on this pdf (http://www.usma.edu/admissions/Shared Documents/CFA_Instructions.pdf) give you a 94.4, and the max scores listed on this pdf give you a 133.3, I can calculate a rough estimate of what I scored on the CFA. The averages(for males) listed on that document are 67 ft. basketball throw, 9 pull ups, 9.1 shuttle run, 72 sit ups, 54 push ups, and a 6:43 mile. The maxes(for males) listed on the document are 102 ft. basketball throw, 18 pull ups, 7.8 shuttle run, 95 sit ups, 75 push ups, and a 5:20 mile.

    For basketball throw I scored got 71 ft. The difference between 67 ft. and 102 ft. is 35 ft. The difference between 94.4 and 133.3 is 38.9. 38.9 divided by 35 is 1.1114. I got 4 feet above the average, so I multiply 4 by 1.1114 and get 4.446. So on the basketball throw I got 4.446 points above average, so on the basketball throw I scored a 98.85 which rounds to 99.

    For pull ups I did 14. I did the exact same thing I did for basketball throw except with the pull up numbers. I calculated the score I got and it is 116.

    For shuttle run I did the same thing I did for basketball throw with shuttle run numbers. I calculated the score I got and it is 121.

    For sit-ups I did the same thing I did for basketball throw with sit-up numbers. I calculated the score I got and it is 75.8.

    For push-ups I did the same thing I did for basketball throw with push up numbers. I calculated the score I got and it is 107.36.

    Doing the same thing I did for basketball throw with mile run numbers, I calculated that each over 5:20 on the mile costs you .4687 points. I was 171 seconds over this time, so I got a 53.1523.

    Overall the score I calculated for myself is 572.3, which rounds to 572. 572 is several points above average(566.5).

    If I cut a minute and a half off of my mile(which is realistic for me), I will add 42.18 to my score.

    There are several problems with my calculations that could make them inaccurate(number 4 is probably the biggest problem):

    1. I assumed that you get the same amount of points for doing pull up number 1 as you do for doing pull up number 10. One might actually get more points for doing pull up number 18. In other words, the point value of each pull up(or any other event in the CFA) may not be constant, but in my calculations the point value is constant for each repetition.

    2. Based off of my calculations, one cannot get a very low score(like a 2) on a section. If a male did 0 pull ups, based on my calculations, he would get a 54.

    3. The sample size I used to find the average CFA score is fairly small. The average I found is likely off by a bit, but I would guess it is not off by more than 10 so the level of inaccuracy probably did not impact my calculations very much.

    4. I assumed each event is weighted equally, and they may not be. The mile may be worth more points than the shuttle run.

    5. The 16 CFA scores I used to find the average are over a decade old. The averages and maxes may have changed since then.
     
  19. frenzymando

    frenzymando Banned

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    A retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel administered my CFA and I asked him about retaking it and he said if I retake it the service academies would have to remove my old score.
     
  20. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    I am a current FFR. I can speak for my former regional commander (he just left) to when he allowed retesting of CFA. He allowed retesting for CFA for (1) failed but took the CFA early enough have time to improve and (2) competitive candidates that passed but wants to improve their score. Just remember, CFA is something you can't improve in a short period, unless you were sick or injured when you were taking CFA.
     

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