Disenrollment update or why you should only accept an ROTC scholarship if you can afford to pay it back

G

Gojira

5-Year Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
Messages
79
Haven't been here in long time. Back in 2011, my son was disenrolled for failing to meet weight standards, 3 weeks before commissioning and graduation with a NROTC scholarship in Engineering.

Long story short, hired a lawyer - lost about $5K getting pretty much no advice except for a letter that had little effect. Did not have an option to enlist. Literally, within a few months, received a letter saying my son owed $4000 a month. Got a repayment plan with DFAS. Each year, filled out a financial hardship form which is it's own kind of bureaucratic nightmare. Paid each month. Still paying. And today he gets a letter in the mail that he is in default - while waiting for his last financial hardship waiver forms to be processed. So will have to spend time trying to sort this out which really is yet another insult each month that my kid was willing to die for his country, but putting on 7 pounds shot his chance for a career he always dreamed of. Thanks, US NAVY!

To say that we are sorry that we ever considered this was a good move for him is an understatement. It was good while it was good, and since then has been it's own Dante's Inferno kind of Hell.

Parents and young people willing to put your lives on the line for the branch of service you choose - it is amazing and cool and when you get that big check, it may be one of the personally proudest moments in your life. But IF it all falls apart, be prepared to pay full list price of that university. Not the one your EFC would say you and your parents were on the hook for - no, the real price that the armed service pays for the privilege of your education. We would have made different choices had we known this was going to not work out.

Think very carefully - because this debt is not dischargeable. DFAS is a giant sucking bureaucracy and they really don't care about your personal life situation. They just want it paid back.

I thought this would be a blip for my kid and he would dust himself off and reinvent himself - but it really has impacted him for the last 8 years in more ways than we imagined.
 
Gojira said:
Haven't been here in long time. Back in 2011, my son was disenrolled for failing to meet weight standards, 3 weeks before commissioning and graduation with a NROTC scholarship in Engineering.

Long story short, hired a lawyer - lost about $5K getting pretty much no advice except for a letter that had little effect. Did not have an option to enlist. Literally, within a few months, received a letter saying my son owed $4000 a month. Got a repayment plan with DFAS. Each year, filled out a financial hardship form which is it's own kind of bureaucratic nightmare. Paid each month. Still paying. And today he gets a letter in the mail that he is in default - while waiting for his last financial hardship waiver forms to be processed. So will have to spend time trying to sort this out which really is yet another insult each month that my kid was willing to die for his country, but putting on 7 pounds shot his chance for a career he always dreamed of. Thanks, US NAVY!

To say that we are sorry that we ever considered this was a good move for him is an understatement. It was good while it was good, and since then has been it's own Dante's Inferno kind of Hell.

Parents and young people willing to put your lives on the line for the branch of service you choose - it is amazing and cool and when you get that big check, it may be one of the personally proudest moments in your life. But IF it all falls apart, be prepared to pay full list price of that university. Not the one your EFC would say you and your parents were on the hook for - no, the real price that the armed service pays for the privilege of your education. We would have made different choices had we known this was going to not work out.

Think very carefully - because this debt is not dischargeable. DFAS is a giant sucking bureaucracy and they really don't care about your personal life situation. They just want it paid back.

I thought this would be a blip for my kid and he would dust himself off and reinvent himself - but it really has impacted him for the last 8 years in more ways than we imagined.
Click to expand...

I understand completely where you are coming from, I too have had to deal with DFAS and they’re a black hole. However, I have to ask...how many times was your son counseled and advised verbally and in writing that he did not meet the weight standards? I know of an individual who had 19+ years in the service, he was counseled, advised, given multiple chances to pass the weight and physical standards. The Commanding Officer even delayed as long as possible the entire unit’s PFT test to give this individual two more weeks to make weight. This person was administratively discharged with NO retirement benefits, no pension, no GI Bill, no medical for life...all because he couldn’t meet the requirements and he was within 6-8 months of retiring. It’s a no win situation for all. I understand your frustration but I wouldn’t tell any high schooler not to pursue an ROTC scholarship because if they can’t make weight, they’ll be held accountable to honor the contract they signed and agreed to.
 
Appreciate the cautionary tale, thank you for posting. Your story reinforces other posters advising that selecting a school beyond ones means (or comfort level) is a real risk. I've been digging deep in this forum ;-\ Grades, I suspect, are the more common culprit, but a lot can go wrong and result in unpleasantness.. I'm still unclear on what would happen in the case of a medical disenrollment.

My kid eventually passed on applying to the higher end private schools that he could definitely only have swung with an ROTC scholarship.

He's awaiting the boards and if fortunate enough to be selected, we'll consider carefully the options.

Best of luck to your son.
 
Gojira said:
Haven't been here in long time. Back in 2011, my son was disenrolled for failing to meet weight standards, 3 weeks before commissioning and graduation with a NROTC scholarship in Engineering.

Long story short, hired a lawyer - lost about $5K getting pretty much no advice except for a letter that had little effect. Did not have an option to enlist. Literally, within a few months, received a letter saying my son owed $4000 a month. Got a repayment plan with DFAS. Each year, filled out a financial hardship form which is it's own kind of bureaucratic nightmare. Paid each month. Still paying. And today he gets a letter in the mail that he is in default - while waiting for his last financial hardship waiver forms to be processed. So will have to spend time trying to sort this out which really is yet another insult each month that my kid was willing to die for his country, but putting on 7 pounds shot his chance for a career he always dreamed of. Thanks, US NAVY!

To say that we are sorry that we ever considered this was a good move for him is an understatement. It was good while it was good, and since then has been it's own Dante's Inferno kind of Hell.

Parents and young people willing to put your lives on the line for the branch of service you choose - it is amazing and cool and when you get that big check, it may be one of the personally proudest moments in your life. But IF it all falls apart, be prepared to pay full list price of that university. Not the one your EFC would say you and your parents were on the hook for - no, the real price that the armed service pays for the privilege of your education. We would have made different choices had we known this was going to not work out.

Think very carefully - because this debt is not dischargeable. DFAS is a giant sucking bureaucracy and they really don't care about your personal life situation. They just want it paid back.

I thought this would be a blip for my kid and he would dust himself off and reinvent himself - but it really has impacted him for the last 8 years in more ways than we imagined.
Click to expand...

May I ask if this was a Tier 1 scholarship? We were just awarded a Tier 7 (in state tuition) one. This definitely makes one think. Thank you for the info.
 
JoeNavy89 said:
I understand completely where you are coming from, I too have had to deal with DFAS and they’re a black hole. However, I have to ask...how many times was your son counseled and advised verbally and in writing that he did not meet the weight standards? I know of an individual who had 19+ years in the service, he was counseled, advised, given multiple chances to pass the weight and physical standards. The Commanding Officer even delayed as long as possible the entire unit’s PFT test to give this individual two more weeks to make weight. This person was administratively discharged with NO retirement benefits, no pension, no GI Bill, no medical for life...all because he couldn’t meet the requirements and he was within 6-8 months of retiring. It’s a no win situation for all. I understand your frustration but I wouldn’t tell any high schooler not to pursue an ROTC scholarship because if they can’t make weight, they’ll be held accountable to honor the contract they signed and agreed to.
Click to expand...
Never was counseled on weight. He was working out a lot in the gym that semester.

One very interesting issue after we requested docs for his file was his CO signed many of his yearly progress reports AFTER his disenrollment date. I am not sure if that is what they were called - but it was clear someone dropped the ball.
 
Gojira said:
Never was counseled on weight. He was working out a lot in the gym that semester.

One very interesting issue after we requested docs for his file was his CO signed many of his yearly progress reports AFTER his disenrollment date. I am not sure if that is what they were called - but it was clear someone dropped the ball.
Click to expand...
Also after the PRB meeting in Nov 2011, they gave him another “tape test” 24 hours later. Not sure about you, but even a major stress situation is unlikely to make you to lose 7 pounds in 24 hours. The reality was my son was always on the edges of not passing due to his build from day one - yet it never impacted performance on physical exams. It is all about BMI and unless a dunk test is given, BMI results are notoriously unpredictable.
 
ColordoKid24 said:
Appreciate the cautionary tale, thank you for posting. Your story reinforces other posters advising that selecting a school beyond ones means (or comfort level) is a real risk. I've been digging deep in this forum ;-\ Grades, I suspect, are the more common culprit, but a lot can go wrong and result in unpleasantness.. I'm still unclear on what would happen in the case of a medical disenrollment.

My kid eventually passed on applying to the higher end private schools that he could definitely only have swung with an ROTC scholarship.

He's awaiting the boards and if fortunate enough to be selected, we'll consider carefully the options.

Best of luck to your son.
Click to expand...
I think the public school option would have been a better option for him in hindsight. We rarely have that insight going in. At the time he was calculating the length of program being extended due to a more difficult degree along with proximity to the local Naval base being great for training.
 
Gojira said:
Never was counseled on weight. He was working out a lot in the gym that semester.

One very interesting issue after we requested docs for his file was his CO signed many of his yearly progress reports AFTER his disenrollment date. I am not sure if that is what they were called - but it was clear someone dropped the ball.
Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing. Wish I had this insight earlier! As aside, if the co signed after his disenrollment date can’t you appeal or take legal action after the fact? Just a thought. Sorry for what he went through.
 
ColordoKid24 said:
Appreciate the cautionary tale, thank you for posting. Your story reinforces other posters advising that selecting a school beyond ones means (or comfort level) is a real risk. I've been digging deep in this forum ;-\ Grades, I suspect, are the more common culprit, but a lot can go wrong and result in unpleasantness.. I'm still unclear on what would happen in the case of a medical disenrollment.

My kid eventually passed on applying to the higher end private schools that he could definitely only have swung with an ROTC scholarship.

He's awaiting the boards and if fortunate enough to be selected, we'll consider carefully the options.

Best of luck to your son.
Click to expand...
Appreciate this. We had not considered this risk during the application process but are advocates for our top notch in state schools for many reasons. Additionally they are the only ones we can afford. I feel like this knowledge will help me further on since we have four more kids after this first one who is applying now.
 
Gojira said:
Long story short, hired a lawyer - lost about $5K getting pretty much no advice except for a letter that had little effect.
Click to expand...
Are you surprised? Lawyers exist for only one reason and it’s to make themselves rich.
 
Oh, Gojira, I'm so sorry to hear this. I always tell anyone I know with a kid applying for ROTC to understand that it's really a loan, not a scholarship. I gave a huge sigh of relief not just when my DS commissioned but when he met his service obligation. Your DS's experiences and that of a few others I know made me realize just how badly things can go wrong and how harsh the repayment terms can be.
 
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