DS plebe needing psychiatric services "beyond" WP

[Sierra]

Ignoring the ignorant child…

Tricare and military healthcare is very good at EVENTUALLY getting you the care you need. It can be tricky to figure out and you will need to advocate for yourself. Each area has a health benefits advisor, HBA, they are extremely helpful in helping you navigate the system and understand what your options are. You will have to get a referral from a real doctor at the clinic (primary care provider) which is probably why the therapist said to go outside Tricare because I doubt they have referall ability. Even if the cadet is taking a temp leave from school to go home and get better, Tricare will still provide all medical care.
Don’t go outside Tricare, it can create issues and now is the best time to learn to use Tricare instead of being an O2 who has to figure it all out when they are supposed to know basic stuff…

 

[NavyHoops]

Im trying to have an honest discussion here. How can someone function as a leader in the army if they are having severe mental issue plebe year at USMA?

While we should treat everyone with love and compassion, there is a reason DODMERB disqualifies people with diagnosed depression, anxiety, etc, as well as people who take medication for mental issues. Im not saying USMA is sunshine and rainbows but taking medication or seeking extensive treatments off base for some sort of depression might be a sign that USMA is not right for you, which is not intrinsically wrong.

Obviously you will be melancholy certain days and feel bouts of depression as I think all cadets have, but as stated before treatment is limited. Taking medications is off the table if you want to stay at the academy, and I doubt talk therapy will help all that much because the cadet will be required to perform the same duties that are making the cadet depressed unless you leave the school.

Also I feel the condescending tone is really unwarranted as I've tried my best to stay amicable, but you guys seem to have this caricature of me as a "stupid high schooler" who knows nothing.

Mental Health is no joke. You have not earned your spot in the long gray line or spent a single minute at a SA yet. You are making some bold assumptions that are not for any of us to make. Who said it’s severe? Only the therapist can make that call. Just because they are referring to someone else does not mean it is an escalation, it could just be a specialist in a certain area. It’s not for us to say someone who sought therapy as a Plebe, can’t be a great officer. In fact it might be what makes them a fantastic officer.

OP, I know you are concerned for your DS. Obviously only his therapist can make an a diagnosis. This time of year is tough as a Plebe at a SA. It’s a long, cold, dark winter. If your DS has struggled to find ‘his circle.’ It can even make more difficult. It takes longer for some. If his provided therapist is referring him to community care that is beyond a service they have on base, the military should provide that, not your private insurance. Before any medication he should consult with a provider on base for its potential impact to his career. Meds may not be needed. But he should express those concerns to his provider that he wants to remain at WP and commission and anything to jeopardize that should be a last resort. Hopefully as spring comes, he finds his people and looks forward to his summer training. I hope he receives the help he needs, whatever that might be.

 

[Herman_Snerd]

Regarding your son's current situation – triaging recommendations:

1. Immediate Focus: Confirm if there's any risk of suicide/self-harm. Ensure necessary forms and legal docs are signed for your involvement in the process.
2. Clarify Counselor's Recommendation: Understand why private insurance is recommended over TriCare/military physicians. Determine what's at stake for your son's future at WP. If you conclude/ agree this needs to be private (agree btw with recommendations this stay in tricare, but...)can you line up a psychiatrist appt during spring break near where he’ll be – 3/24 – 3/31?
3. Prioritize Son's Needs: Understand your son's desires and requirements. Advocate accordingly.
4. Assess Risk of Recoupment:Understand consequences if your son is unable to proceed.
5. Ensure Academic Progress: Determine if your son can complete the semester at WP, securing credits for potential transfer or toward a WP degree. (Unless there’s risk outlined in point 1 then make his survival the priority).

It's common for WP students to face doubts and challenges, but I have empathy and I’m sorry your son is going through a challenging time. This is not a gentle environment per those that were or are in it, but it's reportedly more common than not for massive self doubt in freshman year, feelings of being overwhelmed/ depression. Chaplains are not sitting idle. Service academies are great places to be from, but for some, not great places to be AT. for the gung-ho who loved every minute, bully for you chaps.. But for the rest...

Good luck to your son and family.

 

[hopefulhockeymom]

I have an undergraduate degree in psychology and a graduate degree in a semi-related field and I don't feel qualified to give advice. Please recognize your lack of training and experience in the medical field. You're clearly a respectable and intelligent member of the community if you've been offered an appointment. I pray that you never suffer from mental health issues, lest you be told to "suck it up" and be judged in the same manner in which you've judged your future peers. Please use your words wisely.

As someone who worked in military and VA behavioral health settings for years and years, and who does feel qualified to offer guidance (but would not since I have not met the student), I agree with you 1000000%.

 

[Herman_Snerd]

All im saying is he needs perspective and motivation. All this mental health will not help for someone "depressed" from only plebe year at USMA. What is the kid going to do in the big army? Tbh talking does not resolve anything either. No matter how much he talks to some counselor, unless he leaves WP he will return on base and perform the same duties that are causing this "depression". Then his experience will get harder and harder relatively as academics and responsibilities increase as he becomes an upperclassmen.

You're not displaying characteristics of a good officer - your comments lack empathy, understanding, compassion, care. You're displaying a fool's certainty with the use of absolutes as if you are crystal clear on what will or will not help this struggling young adult in areas you don't have enough information or expertise to be that certain. You're out of your depth and hopefully will gain more experience and perspective so as to be more aware. IDK, maybe you'll be 50 one day and still sounding like this - or maybe in a few years you'll read this old post and admire how much you've grown, how much more aware you now are and maybe you'll be proud of how much you've matured. The soldiers you one day may lead may benefit from your growth. Maybe like a bland piece of chicken USMA will season you to be a better, more palatable version of yourself. You can improve in these areas if you choose.

There are good people who fall down and get up, flourish even. Don't dismiss people because they are going through a hard time as if they just need to choose to not let something bother them. Honestly, I hope you already are redirecting your energy into self improvement so that your >8 minute mile and 5 pushup performance is now much improved. If not and by miracle you get into a SA or ROTC program, you'll quickly learn the value of humility and perhaps gain empathy for those struggling. against those who are not.

 

[WoolSocksinSummer]

Thanks for your advice,

I'm in the WP Dad's group but can't find the WP Mom's group. I was searching for this group before and somewhere I read the group was nuked because the Mom's were posting plebs private letters etc.

There should be a Class of 2027 group. Also, if you aren't already a member, reach out and join your local WP group and reach out to them for advice. Best of luck - @CoffeeMama gave great advice here! We need to build each other up, not break others down.

 

[lexie74]

Two quick things in addition to prayers for your son's health... the West Point Moms page has not been nuked, lol, it is very active and an incredible resource... and I believe that there were some in the class of 2023 that had trouble commissioning because of medications that they were put on at West Point for mental health that got caught in the middle when the requirements changed to needing to be off those types of medications for three years prior to commissioning. I'm not in any way an authority but it's something to check into to see if that is more than rumor.

 

[Xdian]

You're not displaying characteristics of a good officer - your comments lack empathy, understanding, compassion, care. You're displaying a fool's certainty with the use of absolutes as if you are crystal clear on what will or will not help this struggling young adult in areas you don't have enough information or expertise to be that certain. You're out of your depth and hopefully will gain more experience and perspective so as to be more aware. IDK, maybe you'll be 50 one day and still sounding like this - or maybe in a few years you'll read this old post and admire how much you've grown, how much more aware you now are and maybe you'll be proud of how much you've matured. The soldiers you one day may lead may benefit from your growth. Maybe like a bland piece of chicken USMA will season you to be a better, more palatable version of yourself. You can improve in these areas if you choose.

There are good people who fall down and get up, flourish even. Don't dismiss people because they are going through a hard time as if they just need to choose to not let something bother them. Honestly, I hope you already are redirecting your energy into self improvement so that your >8 minute mile and 5 pushup performance is now much improved. If not and by miracle you get into a SA or ROTC program, you'll quickly learn the value of humility and perhaps gain empathy for those struggling. against those who are not.

This is an excellent writing !

 

[crhath]

"mental care" really… I understand your son is new to the environment but it's already second semester. He really has to just toughen up. Ive visited West Point and will be attending soon and its honestly not that bad. I think that this might not be the right environment for him if he's already struggling. This is no diss to your son as many people are born and raised with different temperaments and I have no doubt that he is smart seeing as he got into WP. He will be commissioned as an officer and be forced to serve active duty at the minimum until 2036 should he continue. If he really just doesn't like the program its would be better for him to leave and enroll in a nice state uni. Don't let sunken cost cause him to do something he can't handle and exacerbate his mental health issues.

Tbh though he might be fine and just be ranting to you as an outlet since family are really the only people cadets can freely complain to. Encouragement will help him a lot more that feeding into his "depression". If he is a competitive person he can also be motivated by the fact that he was selected by our nation, few will have a service academy experience and the grit that comes with it, and people less mentally and physically capable than him have made it through a harder West Point (violent hazing, no modern amenities, etc) and made it out just fine.

Please just try to encourage instead of feed into this mental health stuff as it inadvertanly just brings down his morale.

I'm a pretty tough mama, considered by many to have been "too tough" on all my kids and your comment has me in a tears. To think that you could essentially be my child's leader one day and then eventually become a parent to your own child is honestly terrifying. The one fine line that as parents we all continuously walk on is state of our kid's mental health. Please print out your comment and the answers from others and keep them somewhere safe...forever. Because there will come a time as a leader and as a parent where you will have to make the choice and (live with it) when faced with this exact situation. I can only hope between this very day and that day that will eventually come, that you dig deep and learn empathy, well thought out responses and develop the tools to help those close to you get through their mental health challenges. It will be inevitable as everyone on here probably has some story that has tested them to their breaking point...and that breaking point is different for everyone...as well as the outcome. As we have seen throughout the years, some amazingly strong and happy people suffered in silence or were shamed to speak up because of individuals like yourself. I wish you the best of luck as well as the OP's child.

 

[Walman888]

"mental care" really… I understand your son is new to the environment but it's already second semester. He really has to just toughen up. Ive visited West Point and will be attending soon and its honestly not that bad. I think that this might not be the right environment for him if he's already struggling. This is no diss to your son as many people are born and raised with different temperaments and I have no doubt that he is smart seeing as he got into WP. He will be commissioned as an officer and be forced to serve active duty at the minimum until 2036 should he continue. If he really just doesn't like the program its would be better for him to leave and enroll in a nice state uni. Don't let sunken cost cause him to do something he can't handle and exacerbate his mental health issues.

Tbh though he might be fine and just be ranting to you as an outlet since family are really the only people cadets can freely complain to. Encouragement will help him a lot more that feeding into his "depression". If he is a competitive person he can also be motivated by the fact that he was selected by our nation, few will have a service academy experience and the grit that comes with it, and people less mentally and physically capable than him have made it through a harder West Point (violent hazing, no modern amenities, etc) and made it out just fine.

Please just try to encourage instead of feed into this mental health stuff as it inadvertanly just brings down his morale.

Amazing. Hurtful, massively insensitive, and a knowledge base gained in one visit and under 23 years of life experience.
Please enjoy your Beast Barracks this Summer if in fact you do attend. I would also encourage you to speak to the Master of the Sword and explain just how much grit you have and the extraordinary level of toughness you possess. He'll be impressed!

Best!

 

[Walman888]

My son, a plebe at West Point, is doing reasonably well academically, but he's been having some difficulties adjusting and relating to others, possibly experiencing some depression. He has been seeing a counselor at West Point since October. However, she recently suggested that he seek care outside of West Point, as his situation might require treatment beyond what she can offer. She recommended finding a private doctor in our area who accepts our private insurance (not Tricare). I assume they would prefer one in-person visit and the rest could be done virtually. I'm thinking they might want to treat with antidepressants. He contacted me yesterday asking if I could find a private doctor for him, as suggested by his counselor.

I have several concerns. First, would seeking a private doctor and attending virtual sessions violate any rules? Second, would taking prescribed antidepressants be a violation? Third, I know that mental health visits must be reported for security clearance; would this cause any issues? Fourth, I'm curious if there are additional services the military provides in situations like this. I'm aware of the increasing availability of online virtual treatment through doctors who can even prescribe medication.

Stressful situation indeed. Best to your DS and family in both the long and short term.

 

[jebdad]

OP - I tried to send you a private message but it said I cannot send private messages to you. I'm just a fellow Dad here who has a Yuk at WP. He would welcome the chance to be a confidential resource to your plebe if they need anything. Same goes from me if you just want to chat with another Dad.

If you need anything, please private message me.

 

[crhath]

"mental care" really… I understand your son is new to the environment but it's already second semester. He really has to just toughen up. Ive visited West Point and will be attending soon and its honestly not that bad. I think that this might not be the right environment for him if he's already struggling. This is no diss to your son as many people are born and raised with different temperaments and I have no doubt that he is smart seeing as he got into WP. He will be commissioned as an officer and be forced to serve active duty at the minimum until 2036 should he continue. If he really just doesn't like the program its would be better for him to leave and enroll in a nice state uni. Don't let sunken cost cause him to do something he can't handle and exacerbate his mental health issues.

Tbh though he might be fine and just be ranting to you as an outlet since family are really the only people cadets can freely complain to. Encouragement will help him a lot more that feeding into his "depression". If he is a competitive person he can also be motivated by the fact that he was selected by our nation, few will have a service academy experience and the grit that comes with it, and people less mentally and physically capable than him have made it through a harder West Point (violent hazing, no modern amenities, etc) and made it out just fine.

Please just try to encourage instead of feed into this mental health stuff as it inadvertanly just brings down his morale.

I'm a pretty tough mama, considered by many to have been "too tough" on all my kids and your comment has me in tears. To think that you could essentially be my child's leader one day and then eventually become a parent to your own child is honestly terrifying. The one fine line that as parents we all continuously walk on is state of our kid's mental health. Please print out your comment and the answers from others and keep them somewhere safe...forever. Because there will come a time as a leader and as a parent where you will have to make the choice and (live with it) when faced with this exact situation. I can only hope between this very day and that day that will eventually come, that you dig deep and learn empathy, well thought out responses and develop the tools to help those close to you get through their mental health challenges. It will be inevitable as everyone on here probably has some story that has tested them to their breaking point...and that breaking point is different for everyone...as well as the outcome. As we have seen throughout the years, some amazingly strong and happy people suffered in silence or were shamed to speak up because of individuals like yourself. I wish you the best of luck as well as the OP's child.

 

[Monikat]

Thanks for your advice,

I'm in the WP Dad's group but can't find the WP Mom's group. I was searching for this group before and somewhere I read the group was nuked because the Mom's were posting plebs private letters etc.

I'm a mom of a plebe and I'm seconding @CoffeeMama's West Point Mom's Facebook page recommendation. It was not "nuked" it is alive and well. I don't exactly know if you can get on there if you are a Dad, but the mods will assist you. I'd write an anonymous post. Many moms there have tons of experience and this would be right up their alley. This is not such an unusual situation; there will be good advice out there.

(You may also be familiar with the
West Point Class of 2027 Parents Facebook page, but I'd go to West Point Moms first because your class page is going to be made up of lots of first-time West Point parents.)

BTW so many of the plebes are having it rough right now; smack in the middle of The Gray Period. It's the worst.

 

[vipercrew]

I'm a mom of a plebe and I'm seconding @CoffeeMama's West Point Mom's Facebook page recommendation. It was not "nuked" it is alive and well. I don't exactly know if you can get on there if you are a Dad, but the mods will assist you. I'd write an anonymous post. Many moms there have tons of experience and this would be right up their alley. This is not such an unusual situation; there will be good advice out there.

(You may also be familiar with the
West Point Class of 2027 Parents Facebook page, but I'd go to West Point Moms first because your class page is going to be made up of lots of first-time West Point parents.)

BTW so many of the plebes are having it rough right now; smack in the middle of The Gray Period. It's the worst.

And on top of that, Thayer weeks with crazy amounts of work. I can always tell when the cadets are slammed by the post frequency on the company Instagram page goes to 0 when you normally get several per day.

 

[chalktherock]

"mental care" really… I understand your son is new to the environment but it's already second semester. He really has to just toughen up. Ive visited West Point and will be attending soon and its honestly not that bad. I think that this might not be the right environment for him if he's already struggling. This is no diss to your son as many people are born and raised with different temperaments and I have no doubt that he is smart seeing as he got into WP. He will be commissioned as an officer and be forced to serve active duty at the minimum until 2036 should he continue. If he really just doesn't like the program its would be better for him to leave and enroll in a nice state uni. Don't let sunken cost cause him to do something he can't handle and exacerbate his mental health issues.

Tbh though he might be fine and just be ranting to you as an outlet since family are really the only people cadets can freely complain to. Encouragement will help him a lot more that feeding into his "depression". If he is a competitive person he can also be motivated by the fact that he was selected by our nation, few will have a service academy experience and the grit that comes with it, and people less mentally and physically capable than him have made it through a harder West Point (violent hazing, no modern amenities, etc) and made it out just fine.

Please just try to encourage instead of feed into this mental health stuff as it inadvertanly just brings down his morale.

Just to offer a POV from a current cadet: if your battle buddies are having a hard time and you tell them to “toughen up”, reassured not a lot of them (if any!) will want to be around you. The mindset is all about teamwork, and West Point embodies the motto “there’s no ‘I’ in teamwork”. In BEAST you will be taught hard lessons about leaving nobody behind, and you will have a very difficult experience at West Point in general if you always look down on the “weaker” ones. If your battle buddy is late to the wall, or their uniform is jacked up, it’s their fault as well as their roommates and squad for not helping them. In other words, if your fellow new cadet is messed up, you’re messed up too.

Our job as cadets and future officers is to help our less-up-to-speed battle buddies and soldiers be the best they can be. There will be new cadets who struggle during BEAST, and your cadre WILL notice if you refuse to help/only help when you are forced to.

It’s a good lesson to learn now if you do end up going to BEAST and getting accepted into the Corps. If you really are invested in going to USMA, I highly encourage you to start practicing empathy and embracing teamwork. But if you think that there’s nothing wrong with the mentality you have, give your (potential) spot to someone else who will thrive at USMA. Wish you the best!

 

[Walman888]

Just to offer a POV from a current cadet: if your battle buddies are having an hard time and you tell them to “toughen up”, reassured not a lot of them (if any!) will want to be around you. The mindset is all about teamwork, and West Point embodies the motto “there’s no ‘I’ in teamwork”. In BEAST you will be taught hard lessons about leaving nobody behind, and you will have a very difficult experience at West Point in general if you always look down on the “weaker” ones. If your battle buddy is late to the wall, or their uniform is jacked up, it’s their fault as well as their roommates and squad for not helping them. In other words, if your fellow new cadet is messed up, you’re messed up too.

Our job as cadets and future officers is to help our less-up-to-speed battle buddies and soldiers be the best they can be. There will be new cadets who struggle during BEAST, and your cadre WILL notice if you refuse to help/only help when you are forced to.

It’s a good lesson to learn now if you do end up going to BEAST and getting accepted into the Corps. If you really are invested in going to USMA, I highly encourage you to start practicing empathy and embracing teamwork. But if you think that there’s nothing wrong with the mentality you have, give your (potential) spot to someone else who will thrive at USMA. Wish you the best!

Perfect.

 

[ConstantSpread7]

I'm a mom of a plebe and I'm seconding @CoffeeMama's West Point Mom's Facebook page recommendation. It was not "nuked" it is alive and well. I don't exactly know if you can get on there if you are a Dad, but the mods will assist you. I'd write an anonymous post. Many moms there have tons of experience and this would be right up their alley. This is not such an unusual situation; there will be good advice out there.

(You may also be familiar with the
West Point Class of 2027 Parents Facebook page, but I'd go to West Point Moms first because your class page is going to be made up of lots of first-time West Point parents.)

BTW so many of the plebes are having it rough right now; smack in the middle of The Gray Period. It's the worst.

Thank You, So I figured out why I couldn't find the Mom's group, I'm for some reason "blocked" from seeing it. I'm the father, I'm in the Dad's group as well as the 2027 group. My wife logged in with her account and was able to view it. I'm assuming someone there is keeping tabs on blocking the fathers??

 

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Wow. Attack after attack attack after attack on Jj323whatever. Enough already. He was answering a different question than what the OP asked. He's a kid and did not understand context.

That said....mental and physical toughness is a non-negotiable requirement to lead men under fire. This is non-negotiable. THIS IS NON-NEGOTIABLE. I'm guessing few who posted here have been in sustained direct combat. I'm not saying there aren't issues to work through...I see a counselor ounce a month and still have regular flashbacks. But that only underlines the point that you have to be tough (and I mean TOUGH) starting out. I sent many "leaders" back to BIAP or back home because they couldn't take it and endangered themselves and others.
Hopefully this kid gets through this. He's got time to recover and there's no reason he shouldn't he the next Patton.
It is a terrible trend to overmedicate and overcompensate for kids these days. Hopefully he just needs an ice pack and not surgery. It is worth noting that mental health professionals are for profit and for many of them a patient,'s worst case outcome is a best case for them.
Anyway, there is a point where you cowboy the f up. You can debate when that point is but don't any one of you dare dispute that this point exists and that it is the ultimate objective of every commissioning program in every service to lead and inspire not just when the going gets tough, but when the going is bone crushing.

 

[hopefulhockeymom]

“. It is worth noting that mental health professionals are for profit and for many of them a patient,'s worst case outcome is a best case for them.”

You’ve used a pretty broad and unflattering brush here. As a mental health professional who spent almost ten years post college in training, who spent almost a decade working in military and VA settings, I can assure you that none of us are getting rich in this field, and we carry the wounds of our patients close to our hearts for years after they leave treatment. Any remotely decent therapist celebrates for their patient when they no longer need therapy.