Duplicate Nominations in WP portal?

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by lotsofqs, Jan 9, 2014.

  1. lotsofqs

    lotsofqs Member

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    In late December, my DS received a letter from senator informing him he received a nomination. The nomination did not show up in WP portal for a few weeks. When my DS looked at his portal last night, it shows two identical nominations from what appears to be the same nominating source. Does he have two nominations or is it just a system error? Can you receive two nominations from one senator?
     
  2. GoArmyBeatNavy

    GoArmyBeatNavy Member

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    You can receive multiple nominations from one senator. Each member of congress is allowed to have 5 cadets at West Point at a time. They nominate based on vacancies that open up as cadets graduate or are separated from the academy. If your Senator has three or less cadets credited against him or her in the school year starting after graduation in May (the year your DS would enter) then he or she can nominate against these multiple vacancies. i.e. they can nominate one candidate in two different vacancies.

    With this though, I do not know if you having duplicate nominations on your portal means that you have been nominated against more than one vacancy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  3. 845something

    845something Member

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    Identical nomination info = multiple noms from the same source. NY61 listed twice = two from the senior senator. Those numbers after the state mater as they indicate which representative gave the nomination. 61 and 62 are the senators.
     
  4. JWP

    JWP Member

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    Curious - so what is the purpose of multiple NOMs from the same MOC? I have read quite a bit about it in this forum but I still don't quite understand. I understand the process and why a candidate may get multiple NOMs - just don't understand the relevance for the application. Does it have any impact on the overall candidates score or does the admissions team take multiple nominations into consideration?
     
  5. jackiejyp7

    jackiejyp7 Jackie

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    Unless the candidate has a principal nomination to the SA, having multiple can boost your position on the National Waiting List and your numbered spot in general on their list. If you have multiple nominations that means you have multiple slots. The more slots the higher your chance of being admitted from the list or at least getting a higher position on the list. That's what matters.
     
  6. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    I don't think this is true (re. boosting your position on the NWL). If you have multiple nominations, you are on multiple slates competing with different groups of candidates. If you have a Presidential nom, you are competing with others that have a Presidential nom. If you have your congressman's nom, you are competing with others that have your congressman's nom. Same goes for JROTC/ROTC noms, VP, etc. If your district/state is very competitive, having multiple noms gives the SAs other options to use your nom. But I don't think having multiple noms affects your WCS on the NWL. Can anyone else verify this?
     
  7. GoBlue1984

    GoBlue1984 Member

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    Correct. Having multiple nominations from the same or different nominating sources will not increase your WCS or improve your chances off the NWL.

    What it does is give the academy additional options to grant you an appointment by giving them additional places to charge your admission against. For example your congressman may submit a ranked slate and he ranked you #3 on that slate (the fiend!). On your Senator's slate, which she submitted as competitive (best Senator ever), you have the highest WCS of anyone on that slate who was not already #1 on a different slate so the admissions team grants you an appointment and charges you against that Senator; that Senator's nomination got you in.

    When you are not #1 on any slate: your WCS allows you to compete against all other applicants who are also not #1 on their slates so that the academy has some mechanism to fill out the class. That is the NWL.


    This analogy may help:

    You need an invitation to the party (nomination). Up to 10 invites can go out from any one person (MOC) but only one individual invited by each said person is guaranteed to be allowed to go in the door (#1 ranked). The line is ordered by how nicely you are dressed (WCS) or in the order where the invitation invited you (ranked slate). If the same individual is invited by different people, you may end up standing in a line with less than 10, or if you had multiple invitations, you can stand in different lines. If you are #1 left in your line, you likely will be allowed to go in. If someone else in your line goes in ahead of you, once they let in someone from all the other lines, they form a new line based on your overall appearance (WCS). Only people invited can stand in those lines regardless of how nicely they are dressed. They let additional people into the door who seem to be dressed the nicest in first. After that, they select some people out of the line, not based on how nicely they are dressed but because they need a truly diverse party where they have enough people with red hair (because they need the party to look like the population at large). Once the party is filled up, those left standing outside are told they were wanted but there just wasn't enough room in the party this year (TWE), but if they can dress nicer and get an invitation again next year - assuming they still want to come to the party - they can try again.

    After you get in the party:

    Once in the door, you find out it isn't a really a party and people yell and hold you accountable. You begin to wonder why you wanted to come in the first place because you are expected to clean and serve others at the party, but still find time to dance and play all the party games ("Beast" and Plebe Year). The first time you are allowed to leave the party you meet others who you know that were left outside. You find out they went back home and have since been attending parties where they are the guests and that they have been having lots of fun. The only reason you go back to the party is because you realize that those at your party that have been there the longest actually enjoy it, and because everyone else who came at the same time as you is having your experience but is getting by; you determine you can too. You also realize that all these things you are expected to do while at your party will help you become better at planning parties in the future - which is what you are really want to do and is why you came to the party in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
  8. lotsofqs

    lotsofqs Member

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    Thanks so much for the info! We are still waiting on our congressman but from the looks of things my DS got 2 noms from the junior senator. It's all a waiting/guessing game, right?!
     
  9. Rocko

    Rocko Member

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    I don't understand how multiple nominations on the SAME slate help with anything. I can see it helping if they were different slates but it is bewildering how it helps having two with the same person. Your first nomination on that slate is all you should ever need. Or am I completely missing something here.... (Wouldn't be the first time):confused:
     
  10. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    If the MOC has TWO openings, he/she can nominate up to 20 candidates. So giving a candidate two of the 20 nominations puts that candidate on 2 slates.
     
  11. GoArmyBeatNavy

    GoArmyBeatNavy Member

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    They are discussing being on multiple slates, not one. A slate is a group of ten or less candidates nominated against a congressional vacancy. Congress members have five vacancies to an academy.
     
  12. 845something

    845something Member

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    What you can't see on the candidate portal that the SA does is slate numbers plus the candidates and scores for each slate. Back to that NY61 example:
    Class of 2015: NY61-1
    2016: NY61-2
    2017: NY 61-3
    2018: NY61-4 and NY61-5
    Someone will be selected off of both -4 and -5, and if your name is on both, you have a higher chance.

    -4 candidates:
    A: 1000
    B: 950
    C: 900
    D: 875
    E: 875
    ...
    J: 500

    -5 candidates:
    A: 1000
    B: 950
    Z: 900
    D: 875
    ...
    X: 600

    In this case, A wins -4 and B wins -5 (since A can't win twice). If there weren't two slates, B would have to hope for a spot on the NWL.
     
  13. Rocko

    Rocko Member

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    In your first post you specifically mentioned that they could get more than one nomination from a Senator (The same slate). This is what I am referring to. I believe this is what the OP was talking about. I know our Senator nominated 10 people to his slate. BUT if he had 9 candidates and gave one a second nomination on his slate, what would that do? If they are ranked 9th on the slate, they are still 9th even with the second nomination from that slate. Same applies if they were ranked number 1 on the slate. The second nomination would not change that.

    I'm beginning to think I know less about this process then even I thought!
     
  14. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    GoArmyBeatNavy IS referring to two different slates. Each vacancy is a slate.
     
  15. GoArmyBeatNavy

    GoArmyBeatNavy Member

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    You can get more than one nomination from a member of congress. If a Senator has space for two cadets in the coming year and they are looking to fill that spot, they will have two nomination slates they are using for that admissions cycle.

    Using 845's example, if the NY Senator has two cadets graduating May '14, and wants to fill those two spots with Plebe's for the class of 2018 then he would nominate using two slates of up to 10 candidates.

    NY61 is the code for a NY Senator. NY611 is the code for the Senators first vacancy. NY612, NY613, NY614, NY615 are the remaining spaces. Say that NY611 and NY613 are coming open due to those graduating cadets.

    The Senators would send up a slate of ten names for NY611 and a slate of ten names for NY613. They could be the same ten names, they both could have different names, they could have a mix of both.

    Now as to how being on two different slates can help you:

    Say the Senator uses the competitive nominating method (i.e. She lets West Point pick the highest qualified candidate by whole candidate score) and she submitted 10 identical slates for each vacancy. If you are ranked # 2 on NY611 and #2 on NY613 (assuming #1 is qualified and you are qualified) then the #1 candidate will be admitted under NY611 and you will be admitted under NY613 since #1 can't be admitted under two nomination vacancies.

    Does this make sense?
     
  16. Rocko

    Rocko Member

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    I think I finally get it. I guess I "assumed" if an MOC had two openings that the same nominations would compete for BOTH of those open positions. I just figured 2 openings meant he could nominate up to 20 candidates and they all competed against each other for the 2 openings.

    So you are saying they would nominate 10 people for the one vacancy and possibly a completely different 10 people for the other vacancy. It is separate competition for each vacancy. I kept thinking a slate was all the openings the MOC had.

    Thank you very much for taking the time to put it in terms that this simple man can understand!:bang:
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
  17. GoArmyBeatNavy

    GoArmyBeatNavy Member

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    Yes!

    That option can be good and can be bad. Its good in that it opens up the national waiting list to more candidates. Its bad in that they could put all strong candidates on one slate and weak candidates on another slate and that means that the winner of the second slate could be a weaker candidate than candidates that didn't get admitted off the first slate.
     
  18. Rocko

    Rocko Member

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    Which leads to the question of why don't they handle it like I had assumed they did. If they had two vacancies they can nominate 20 candidates (10 per vacancy). They then compete equally amongst each other for both openings. This way you still get more candidates with a nomination so they can get more to the NWL, but the top two get the MOC slate....
     
  19. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    You're right. They COULD do that. Would any rational person do so? I rather doubt it. :rolleyes:
    I think in practice you're most likely to find two identical, or certainly nearly identical, slates.
     
  20. GoArmyBeatNavy

    GoArmyBeatNavy Member

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    Well, I have seen it. Congress members do not know the WCS of candidates.

    A great nomination interview by an average candidate could give a congress member that a candidate is more competitive then are.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014

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